How is reading the Bible going to convince someone who doesn't think the Bible is true? There's no argument there, just a series of statements made without any evidentiary proofs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pendragon
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How is reading the Bible going to convince someone who doesn't think the Bible is true? There's no argument there, just a series of statements made without any evidentiary proofs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pendragon
Lewis is good,but I think you would find Chesterton's logic in the "Everlasting Man"(particularly on this subject) more entertaining.
Do you really believe chimps create art?
Not only chimps, but cats.Quote:
Originally Posted by okmit
http://www.tenspeedpress.com/catalog...m.php3?id=1020
I'd better get some art lessons, before people accuse me of not being human!
I see its time too quit pussy footing around with the idea that monkey-ing in paint is a CREATIVE expression of art.I certainly wouldnt want too be held responsible for causing any of our artistically challenged humans too feel dehumanized!
Anyone ever hear an Ape play a trumpet?OK thats tuff...how about a Kazoo?
Considering they don't have the fingers to properly pull off most musicianship, I doubt we'd see them playing those. I seem to recall them being able to learn how to speak english though, which allows them to identify their needs quite easily, and considering I can't speak sign language and quite a few apes of all types can now, I'd call that pretty decent intelligence. Still, we've had cat, elephant, and ape art recorded and they all look different, depending on their color usage. If the animal was just an idiot they'd shove the stick up their rear and run around spraying paint over their masters, which oddly enough I've come close to seeing from some toddlers. Watch videos of these animals painting if you want to see contemplative thought, because it's certainly there.
In any case, all this discussion is, is "Are we better than animals?" Which as we've established early on, the Judeo-Christian faith says yes because God holds humanity in a higher regard by giving them souls, talking to them, etc. Meanwhile, I would say we're no different. A beaver makes a home, raises a family, develops adaptations to fend off predators, passes his skill onto his children, who proceed to build another home when he passes on and they move out. I buy a home, lock my door, teach people what I know, and am no better than some giant rodent who can even swim and survive longer than I can in the wilderness, underwater, or the cold.
CoCo sure was a wiz!But if you put your mind to it I'm sure you too could conquer the art of mimmicking.As for YOU being no better than a giant rodent,well I'll leave that assesment to you.But I am sure that you would fare much better in the beavers cold,wet,wilderness than the beaver would in your warm,dry,city enviroment!
Oh yes,and did I see you write...spraying paint over "their MASTER?"
Seeing as most of their art isn't anything outside of abstract (to us anyway) and their color usage is mainly based off of their memories and/or emotions at the time, it's fairly easy to tell they aren't just mimicking, or else they'd produce the same works of art all the time, rather than different ones.
The beaver and I are just two different creatures, they have an extra eyelid to see under water, extra flabs of fat to survive the cold winters and chilly waters. I live in Washington, so it isn't that dry here, nor is it really ever too warm, and when I look outside, there isn't much city either, but I suppose there is concrete about. Personally I've always respected other animal's adaptations because they become more "need based" rather than want, which end up just being useless for some of us. Sure I can type 80wpm, survive off ramen noodles for months on end, and deliver packages for my job in less than an hour, but these aren't exactly needed adaptations on my part. They're what we're used to though, so I guess they work.
Nice job picking out one word to better fit your ideas, though, really. I couldn't think up much else at 8am, but we'll say I meant "keeper" or "trainer" if that suits your fancy. I'm no zoologist, so I don't know their official term. They make sure the animal gets their food, like I do with my dogs, and since dogs' owners are usually referred to as owners and/or masters, it's the first thing that comes to mind. But who really thinks of their pets as something they own? They're just furry friends that we keep alive because they make us happy, but I suppose them relying on us in a city environment does make us fairly owner-like of them.
Master,keeper,trainer,lord is what we are because we have dominion over them.We feed them,breed em, work em, entertain ourselves,and eat em.I thank God for the dominion,for the thought of a creature of higher intellect,(or lower)passing me on a bun through a drive thru window to be devoured is just too scary!!!
So I suppose you ignore wolves, sharks, snakes, murderers, lawmakers, and various other things, creatures as I call em, to have dominion over you? I know I don't control most of those things, nor do I really control any animals I've ever had as pets. I keep them happy and they don't kill me, that's all life is when it comes to control and dominion. I'm not the master of my dogs because they could quite easily kill me, though perhaps you have smaller animals than I.
Then again, maybe you meant to focus entirely on intellect, rather than sheer power of will. I'm fed and worked by my boss, though I wouldn't exactly say he has a higher intellect than I, so perhaps that's a type of dominion we're talking about.
In any case, I'd say the main difference between us at this point is that I'm willing to be apart of the creatures around me as equals insofar as I don't degrade their position in society and because of that I don't fear them having control over my life. All things control us, be it weather, the bills, or the angry dog next door, but that isn't a reason to fear them, but to merely respect their ability to wield some power over our lives. You just regard your respect to a higher power than I, whereas I have no belief that that power exists, so I delegate my own to more individual sources. Just different perspectives on the same concepts.
<CoCo sure was a wiz!But if you put your mind to it I'm sure you too could conquer the art of mimmicking.>
We all do. Do you seriously think anything original is created otherwise? Most of what we do and say has no originality to it. What little originality we may display in our lives, is a direct result of the amount of mimicking we have indulged in.
You cant create an original mimmick!That is why you are not a mimmick of an Ape.You are descendant of Man not an evolution of a species that is incapable of expounding.Quote:
Originally Posted by atiguhya padma
It is possible combine two or more 'mimmicks' and create something original by adding something of your own. Animals do this to. Your failure to see this does not mean it does not happen, but I guess ignorance is bliss.Quote:
You cant create an original mimmick!That is why you are not a mimmick of an Ape.You are descendant of Man not an evolution of a species that is incapable of expounding.
Okmit, I hope this does not offend you but when you were a kid you mimmicked your parents in order to learn how to do the common things you do every day. You cannot seriously believe that animals do not have a different kind of intelligence then you do. What is so scary about the thought of evolving from a ape? Many species that have evolved do not resemble what they originally looked like. Learning sign language is all mimmickering especially when a sentence is form completely on their own. Personally since I was not alive during the time man evolve I could not tell you what or whom we evolved from but I do know we sure did not look like we do today back then. Lucy is a good example of that.