Harry Potter

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Originally Posted by TheFifthElement

I wouldn't say he was a hero, more like he was morally ambiguous. If he'd had the power to turn Lily's love away from James, and that power was evil, he'd have used it.

I don't think love redeemed him either. Love made him bitter, and angry. Love was both the cause and the cure of his problems.

Of course none of it was real, or was it?.....

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But he been to the Dark Side and Choose Good because of LOVE? None of the other characters done that - even Dumbledore! Dumbledore was tempted that is all.

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Originally Posted by Pensive

Don't know about redeeming, but it did give his life a purpose - to save Harry and to work as Dumbledore's agent. Poor Snape, I felt pity on him as well. But don't know why can't bring myself to call him Severus yet! Yeah, can't bring myself to get on first name basis with Professor Snape!

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No. Not many would invite him to dinner in the evening. But the anger, the bitterness, the terrible sadness about him makes him a unique character - a character that strides both the dark and the good?

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Originally Posted by Lioness_Heart

I'm not sure he's really a hero either. He has heroic moments, but that's mixed in with a lot of unpleasantness.

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He is more of an Anti Hero than hero - but there is something unique about him?

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And as for the love thing, I'm not so sure. Does that make him less of a hero, because he wasn't doing good for the sake of good - it seemed a bit like an attempt to bring Lily back almost, as if he could undo the past by helping Harry.

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No. But he choose good for LOVE - isn't that something?

I think Lily should have chosen him instead of James I hates James!

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Originally Posted by Bakiryu

I think Lily should have chosen him instead of James I hates James!

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But would he have learnt the true lesson of love if he did?

Now but he would've been happy anyway. Love doesn't have a lesson.

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Originally Posted by Bakiryu

Now but he would've been happy anyway. Love doesn't have a lesson.

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It does. It teaches you about loss...and regrets...and pain...and sadness...and sorrow...and of fulfilment...of hope...of joy...of meaning...

Those things can be learned over time. People shouldn't suffer for the sake of love.

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Originally Posted by Bakiryu

Those things can be learned over time. People shouldn't suffer for the sake of love.

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If it does not hurt - it ain't love...

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Originally Posted by Lote-Tree

But he been to the Dark Side and Choose Good because of LOVE? None of the other characters done that - even Dumbledore! Dumbledore was tempted that is all.

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Well, it could be said that he chose Good when he had nothing left to lose, because his love was gone. So he only became Good (ambiguously so) when he was a broken man, often as people choose the dark path in life when they feel they have nothing left. Was choosing the path of goodness an act of self-destruction for Snape?

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Originally Posted by TheFifthElement

Well, it could be said that he chose Good when he had nothing left to lose,

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He put his life in danger did he not?
He did not have to do this does he?

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So he only became Good (ambiguously so) when he was a broken man, often as people choose the dark path in life when they feel they have nothing left.

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So why did he choose the good then for Lily?

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Was choosing the path of goodness an act of self-destruction for Snape?

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No. Act of redemption?

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Originally Posted by Lote-Tree

He put his life in danger did he not?
He did not have to do this does he?

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No, but when you've nothing left to live for then you can be reckless with your life.

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So why did he choose the good then for Lily?

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Or because he couldn't remain with Voldemort when he threatened the only thing he'd ever loved. If he loved Lily so much, and her love could save him, why didn't he choose the path of good when she was alive, when he knew it was so important to her. Instead he let her die. He could have done more.

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No. Act of redemption?

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Or an act of revenge? Against the person who took away his love.

Of course ultimately it's because JKR said it is so. Oh the power of a writer, almost like playing God.

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Originally Posted by Lote-Tree

If it does not hurt - it ain't love...

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So true, so true.

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Originally Posted by TheFifthElement

No, but when you've nothing left to live for then you can be reckless with your life.

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Perhaps. But there is element of self-preservation even when you have nothing to live for. And he never tried to commit suicide. He wanted to live.

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If he loved Lily so much, and her love could save him, why didn't he choose the path of good when she was alive, when he knew it was so important to her.

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Here he shows how human he is. So often we hurt those that we love the most - either through our actions or inactions or misunderstanding...

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Or an act of revenge? Against the person who took away his love.

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But he never tried to kill Voldermort. He could have died trying.

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Of course ultimately it's because JKR said it is so. Oh the power of a writer, almost like playing God.

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The redemption is this: His been to the dark side. And only love brought him back to the good side.

Snape embodies what most human tend to be - a mixture of good and bad. Some only act on the good - we call them Saint's and others tempted by the bad - we call them villains. But most straddle between the moral ambiguity between the two.

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Originally Posted by Lote-Tree

Snape embodies what most human tend to be - a mixture of good and bad. Some only act on the good - we call them Saint's and others tempted by the bad - we call them villains. But most straddle between the moral ambiguity between the two.

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True, JKR has captured this well as the books have gone on, and perhaps reflected what is the core problem for most teenagers, the discovery that adults don't have all the answers, and sometimes they aren't as wholely good as we'd been led to believe. Snape was darker than most of the characters, so it was more pronounced in his case, but all the main characters were straddling the void between 'good' and 'evil', including Harry.

I'm still not convinced that it was love that redeemed Snape, if he hadn't loved Lily his life may well have been much more simple (and perhaps boring ;) )

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Originally Posted by TheFifthElement

Or because he couldn't remain with Voldemort when he threatened the only thing he'd ever loved. If he loved Lily so much, and her love could save him, why didn't he choose the path of good when she was alive, when he knew it was so important to her. Instead he let her die. He could have done more.

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But Snape DID choose the path of good while Lily was still alive. He told Voldemort about the prophecy before he knew it would lead to Lily's death. As soon as he found out that Voldemort was going to attack the Potters, he told Dumbledore all about it in hope of saving Lily. It wasn't Snape's fault that the plan didn't work, it backfired because Peter Pettigrew betrayed Lily and James.

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Originally Posted by Annamariah

But Snape DID choose the path of good while Lily was still alive. He told Voldemort about the prophecy before he knew it would lead to Lily's death. As soon as he found out that Voldemort was going to attack the Potters, he told Dumbledore all about it in hope of saving Lily. It wasn't Snape's fault that the plan didn't work, it backfired because Peter Pettigrew betrayed Lily and James.

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I whole-heartedly agree over here! I think he did all he could do and for the best interests of Lily.

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Originally Posted by Annamariah

But Snape DID choose the path of good while Lily was still alive. He told Voldemort about the prophecy before he knew it would lead to Lily's death. As soon as he found out that Voldemort was going to attack the Potters, he told Dumbledore all about it in hope of saving Lily. It wasn't Snape's fault that the plan didn't work, it backfired because Peter Pettigrew betrayed Lily and James.

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Exactly!