Twilight

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Originally Posted by Joreads

I can see that but I think her mind was already made up about that and that is why she rang Rosalie from the island to meet her at the airport. I agree that Ishe knoew taht Rosalie would not allow Edward to talk her into anything. Wow a conversation about the book isn't that a nice change.:p

Who desides Edward is you favorite character. I have to say Alice.

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Yes, I suppose that's true too. Either way, I'm still bitter about the whole baby in the first place. Actually, I was really enjoying the feminism conversation. What happened to J and Mopey??;)

Hmm. Favourite other than Edward...that's tough. I think I'm gonna go for a couple of them: Alice, Seth and Emmett.

Why Alice for you?

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Originally Posted by *Classic*Charm*

Yes, I suppose that's true too. Either way, I'm still bitter about the whole baby in the first place. Actually, I was really enjoying the feminism conversation. What happened to J and Mopey??;)

Hmm. Favourite other than Edward...that's tough. I think I'm gonna go for a couple of them: Alice, Seth and Emmett.

Why Alice for you?

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I know the baby bothers you and I can understand why so in the interest of friendship it is off the table as from now ;).

I have no idea what happened to J and Mopey hopefully they will join us for another round tomorrow it might be late where they are I am not sure. Two guys standing up for women's rights those boys are dolls to as far as I am concerned.:) maybe I should have said GI Joe's - I am sure they will understand what I mean.

Alice is so quirky and I love the whole vision thing. She would make a really good best friend. She kind of reminds me of my sister - just so we are clear my sister is not a vampire:D, my sister is always telling me what to wear and taking me shopping and generally pushing me around.

I tell who else I liked Jasper and I would love to know more about his story. I think you could get a stand along book out of that if you wanted to.

Seth and Emmett why?

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Originally Posted by Joreads

I know the baby bothers you and I can understand why so in the interest of friendship it is off the table as from now ;).

I have no idea what happened to J and Mopey hopefully they will join us for another round tomorrow it might be late where they are I am not sure. Two guys standing up for women's rights those boys are dolls to as far as I am concerned.:) maybe I should have said GI Joe's - I am sure they will understand what I mean.

Alice is so quirky and I love the whole vision thing. She would make a really good best friend. She kind of reminds me of my sister - just so we are clear my sister is not a vampire:D, my sister is always telling me what to wear and taking me shopping and generally pushing me around.

I tell who else I liked Jasper and I would love to know more about his story. I think you could get a stand along book out of that if you wanted to.

Seth and Emmett why?

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No, no, we can talk about it if you'd like. I'm always up for it!

Haha GI Joes. That's excellent. Do they still make those?

Emmett's just hilarious. Big, burly, rash, and completely oblivious. He's just good for a laugh.

I loved Seth's loyalty and innocence. He's really the only truly innocent character in the books, and I think the most lifelike (despite that he's a werewolf, yadda yadda yadda)

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Originally Posted by *Classic*Charm*

No, no, we can talk about it if you'd like. I'm always up for it!

Haha GI Joes. That's excellent. Do they still make those?

Emmett's just hilarious. Big, burly, rash, and completely oblivious. He's just good for a laugh.

I loved Seth's loyalty and innocence. He's really the only truly innocent character in the books, and I think the most lifelike (despite that he's a werewolf, yadda yadda yadda)

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GI Joes who needs them we have our own.

The baby I still haven't made my mind up on that yet. But I love the way Edward :blush: and everyone else is with the baby. Still not sure about the vampires having babies though I thought that they couldn't because they had no bodily fluids - surely Edward or Bella would have noticed that - Is that crossing the line here????

Oh Seth - I was thinking Sam - I am getting my mythical creatures mixed up. Seth is the one that stays with Bella and Edward in the tent and faces Victoria. Got ya. He was cute.

I guess I am a vampire girl at heart. I don't think I have told you this but I am in a movie club here and we are doing vampire movies starting this month. Basically we see a movie each month and then discuss it but it has to have a vampire theme we do a theme for 12 months. I am currently reading up on vampire methology and comparing it to Twilight she has made some interesting changes. Told you a vampire girl at hear.

Emmetts love for Rose is what I remember him for and his loyalty to Bella once she is accepted as one of the family.

The whole incabus thing bugged me as well. I had kind of hoped the thing would be an evil demon and that they would have to distroy it... But no no! happy families!
Alice rules! and seth is such a little cutie!!!
There was one rule of writing that i was always though by my teachers, watch the amount of characters you have. With Breaking Dawn, i felt there were too many characters, too many smaller stories, and too much going on, that the main focus of the series (Bella and Edward) was lost somewhat, and i think the blame for that was making Jacob a narrator. She should have Made Edward it, especially seeing as she was going to write Midnight Sun and it would have connected the two perspectives. It also would have eased up on a lot of the chaos, and we would have been able to feel Edwards pain and Bellas suffering. It would have brought a better understanding and maybe even made it a better story because we may have understood the whol incubus thing better.

In case people haven't finished the series. I don't wanna be a spoilsport :D

Oh no, what really bugged me was how Bella was so 'selfless' and she moved to give her mum and Phil 'space'. And she rarely calls her parents Mum or Dad. Maybe she has an Electra complex, hence going for 100 year old Eddie. She is a bit messed-up.

Imprinting is basically grooming. If you choose a godfather for your child, it is not so they can bed them at a later date. Quil has to suffer '12 years of monkitude'. How can Meyer think it's okay to say that?

And Quil + Clare...Clare Quilty. What a creepy coincidence.

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Originally Posted by Niamh

The whole incabus thing bugged me as well. I had kind of hoped the thing would be an evil demon and that they would have to distroy it... But no no! happy families!
Alice rules! and seth is such a little cutie!!!
There was one rule of writing that i was always though by my teachers, watch the amount of characters you have. With Breaking Dawn, i felt there were too many characters, too many smaller stories, and too much going on, that the main focus of the series (Bella and Edward) was lost somewhat, and i think the blame for that was making Jacob a narrator. She should have Made Edward it, especially seeing as she was going to write Midnight Sun and it would have connected the two perspectives. It also would have eased up on a lot of the chaos, and we would have been able to feel Edwards pain and Bellas suffering. It would have brought a better understanding and maybe even made it a better story because we may have understood the whol incubus thing better.

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I am with you on this Breaking Dawn was way to long and why on earth would you let Jacob tell the story!!! I would think that most people would want to hear from Edward. Way to much going on for me it was my least favorite of the books.

Where do you want to start I am up for it?

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Originally Posted by Niamh

The whole incabus thing bugged me as well. I had kind of hoped the thing would be an evil demon and that they would have to distroy it... But no no! happy families!

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Me too. I really wanted it to be a demon that had to be destroyed, which makes me sound completely cruel. Oh well. I wanted it to happen so that Rosalie would suffer for being such a (insert a choice word here).

I'll start by saying the Breaking Dawn had the most anti-climactic ending I think I've ever read. I was disappointed.

Charm I agree with out about the ending of Breaking Dawn. It felt to me like SM realized that the book was already too long and she had to finish it so she hurried up and finished it. I have said previously that it is my least favorite book, partly because of the whole Jacob narration and because of the ending. It was to neat and tidy for my liking and Bella got everything that she wanted she gets to keep both Edwar and Jacob and that peeved me no end. I think that was the reason behind the whole imprinting the baby it was a way for SM to give Bella her happy ending. There wasn’t even really a big fight scene with the Voultri (Sorry if that is spelt wrong) nothing beats a good dust up as far as I am concerned.
Did anyone else buy that the werewolves were in fact not werewolves but shape shifters that kind of ruined it for me as well.


By the way why do people think Bella took to being a vampire so well? It was never really explained

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Originally Posted by *Classic*Charm*

In some ways, I completely agree with you, JBI. The connotations presented by the novel's presentation of women as subordinates could definitely make an impact on the current generation of female youth.

The problem, though, is something that only Jo mentioned in an earlier post but that we haven't really examined yet: The entirety of the series is completely contradictory in it's viewpoint on male dominance and feminist independence.

Yes, as we've all stated, there is clearly the tone of the weak, female who wants and needs the comfort and protection of a male counterpart.

There is also a middle, more equal ground. The whole second novel (New Moon) revolves around the idea that the two characters are parts of one whole, and cannot live without the other. While it's from the girl's perspective and her agony seems completely preposterous, it is clear that Edward is also not able to properly function without her.

Finally, towards the end of the series (Breaking Dawn mostly), we the readers come to realize that Bella is actually the strongest of them all and is actually the only one capable of saving all the other characters.

This almost seems like a nice tidy progression of things, which leaves me utterly confused. If one follows the progression, it almost seems like the author is pushing for feminist liberty; And yet, it's still the protective dominant male that most readers are more attracted to. Many people who have read the books have stated that they don't like Bella, but would jump Edward in a second.

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I agree with your views on there being a definite equality in degrees of regard between Edward and Bella. While in twilight Bella is definitely obsessed with Edward from the beginning (and of course Edwards feelings become stronger and more apparent as the story unfolds), after reading Midnight Sun (what there is of it) it becomes even clearer that those feelings are entirely mutual and therefore her devotion seems far less pathetic...almost enviable. The strength of their love is almost a character in itself, that is present throughout the books, and carries the story through to it's conclusion.

As a woman, and a fairly liberated one I think, i actually appreciated the strength of Edwards character in the first two books. i do think though, that he wouldn't have needed to be quite so overbearing if Bella didn't make such poor choices...but then...where would the story go without her flawed humanity? I do not believe that being devoted to another person and to have that devotion returned in any way diminishes a woman's individuality, independence or ability to see clearly. Admittedly, though, there were moments in all 4 books where I shook my head and felt concerned as to what kind of message was being sent to young girls all over the world.

Perhaps my biggest frustration in Breaking Dawn (and Eclipse, to some extent) was the fact that, yes as you say, Bella became the 'strength' of the text, however, to allow that, suddenly Edward had no presence at all. I can imagine him shrinking under the weight of his guilt for putting her through such physical trauma etc...it just felt like he'd given up.

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Originally Posted by faithalina

I agree with your views on there being a definite equality in degrees of regard between Edward and Bella. While in twilight Bella is definitely obsessed with Edward from the beginning, after reading Midnight Sun (what there is of it) it becomes clear that those feelings are entirely mutual and therefore her devotion seems far less pathetic...almost enviable. The strength of their love is almost a character in itself, that is present throughout the books, and carries the story through to it's conclusion.

As a woman, and a fairly liberated one I think, i actually appreciated the strength of Edwards character in the first two books. i do think though, that he wouldn't have needed to be quite so overbearing if Bella didn't make such poor choices...but then...where would the story go without her flawed humanity?

Perhaps my biggest frustration in Breaking Dawn (and Eclipse, to some extent) was the fact that, yes as you say, Bella became the 'strength' of the text, however, to allow that, suddenly Edward had no presence at all. I can imagine him shrinking under the weight of his guilt for putting her through such physical trauma etc...it just felt like he'd given up.

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I agree with you. I found Breaking Dawn almost disjointed from the rest of the series when Edward had really given up and suddenly Bella was completely different. It was as though everything they had been through and everything he had done for her was no irrelevant. The relationship they had built up was completely redundant.

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Originally Posted by Joreads

Charm I agree with out about the ending of Breaking Dawn. It felt to me like SM realized that the book was already too long and she had to finish it so she hurried up and finished it. I have said previously that it is my least favorite book, partly because of the whole Jacob narration and because of the ending. It was to neat and tidy for my liking and Bella got everything that she wanted she gets to keep both Edwar and Jacob and that peeved me no end. I think that was the reason behind the whole imprinting the baby it was a way for SM to give Bella her happy ending. There wasn’t even really a big fight scene with the Voultri (Sorry if that is spelt wrong) nothing beats a good dust up as far as I am concerned.
Did anyone else buy that the werewolves were in fact not werewolves but shape shifters that kind of ruined it for me as well.


By the way why do people think Bella took to being a vampire so well? It was never really explained

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Yeah, there should have been a fight scene. It only made sense. And the werewolf bit was completely unnecessary.

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Originally Posted by *Classic*Charm*

Me too. I really wanted it to be a demon that had to be destroyed, which makes me sound completely cruel. Oh well. I wanted it to happen so that Rosalie would suffer for being such a (insert a choice word here).

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I totally thought Jacob was going to kill the child...of course he wouldn't, but what was more horrific was what occurred instead...i can't believe they imprinted. It's all just a little to icky for me.

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Originally Posted by Joreads

Charm I agree with out about the ending of Breaking Dawn. It felt to me like SM realized that the book was already too long and she had to finish it so she hurried up and finished it. I have said previously that it is my least favorite book, partly because of the whole Jacob narration and because of the ending. It was to neat and tidy for my liking and Bella got everything that she wanted she gets to keep both Edwar and Jacob and that peeved me no end. I think that was the reason behind the whole imprinting the baby it was a way for SM to give Bella her happy ending. There wasn’t even really a big fight scene with the Voultri (Sorry if that is spelt wrong) nothing beats a good dust up as far as I am concerned.
Did anyone else buy that the werewolves were in fact not werewolves but shape shifters that kind of ruined it for me as well.


By the way why do people think Bella took to being a vampire so well? It was never really explained

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Yep...it was happy endings all round! A little too perfect for Bella. I'm glad she became a vampire, but it all just seemed a little too convenient that one of her special gifts could be self control...I think it has something to do with her being such a giving and 'responsible' human, that she took that aspect of her personality with her...

SM could have halved the pregnancy and jacob sections of the book to make space for her 'newborn-ness'...i was a bit disappointed that she didn't start attacking!

I think if Edward had any real balls, he'd have gotten rid of Jacob in Eclipse after she kissed him. The triangle was a bit much for me, right to the end. I know SM was doing the whole 'Wuthering Heights' thing, but yeah, I didn't enjoy that aspect of the series.

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Originally Posted by faithalina

I think if Edward had any real balls, he'd have gotten rid of Jacob in Eclipse after she kissed him. The triangle was a bit much for me, right to the end. I know SM was doing the whole 'Wuthering Heights' thing, but yeah, I didn't enjoy that aspect of the series.

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Ah but Bella asked him to kiss her!

indeed she did...but only after he used that age-old tactic of emotional manipulation...'ask me to kiss you or i'll walk into certain death and it will be all your fault'!! very telling of their age...though i guess such tricks are adapted and perfected right into adulthood...

It didn't bother me that she asked him to kiss her to save his life, but it bothered me when he was kissing her and then she just decided that she was in love with him too and started kissing him back. I hated that. Poor Edward...

I was pretty happy when he started howling because he overheard them talking about their marriage.