Mozart in English

Hi there ERS,

Yes indeed !!

They should put dunce hats on those who claim they have examined musical achievement of the 18th and 19th centuries and who do nothing but eulogise the corporatised heroes of the standard textbooks. It's not simply that Mozart was a manufactured composer. (Bad enough as that is ! ). To leave it there would not be enough. It's the astounding ignorance that believing and teaching otherwise has brought on the whole subject of western music and musical achievement. Fantasy, fairy story, and transcendentalist nonsense. Published as music history. All stage managed for popular consumption at the expense of dozens, even hundreds, of virtually unknown composers, publishers, editors and revisors.

People want easy soundbites. Supermarket heroes. Mozart has proved to be a prime example. It suits them. It's a perfect marriage between control of the music industry and the dumbed down public. The life story and career of Mozart is never, ever, cross-examined in any meaningful sense. Of course not ! It's wholesale misinformation. They simply can't allow criticism to happen. It would wreck their corporate control of the musical pantheon they have so carefully constructed.

Here is one item from the musical 'factory' supplying Mozart in Germany. (As there were elsewhere) -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7pfb4...eature=related

And here is Josef Fiala -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8ZQcn2Q9FE

(Fiala had the dubious advantage of living for some years in Mozart's own Salzburg home during the time Mozart was in Vienna. How's that for convenience ? ).

(I am awaiting the arrival of a rare book related to Mozart which I fortunately finally found in an American online website after much search. Which, after I get it, (and it deals with an important issue) I will hopefully complete the Mozart research. But I am still months away from getting this material in to readable form. Continually trying to condense things. It increases exponentially. Mass of notes. Perservering !).


Regards

Musicology is having to invent conversations with himself now that everyone has discovered his douche bagness

Patrick Bateman,

Thanks for your generous remarks !

It's not very often I quote the views of those who agree with my work. But I make an exception in your case - as follows -

''Do you guys realize we are in the 'Age of Revealing' ? Many of my Harpsichord students at Benedetto Marcello Conservatory in Venice, have already asking me about things such as the 'Mozart Myth'. I started revealing these things years ago. Newman did an excellent job, with very careful research. AND IT'S ALL TRUE! Mozart wasn't the only composer though. Let me say that Freemasonic societies of the 1800s collected numberous works by various authors and catagorized them under certain composers to eliminate the task of having hundreds of composers and students, and their works LOST forever.

Franz Liszt was one of these collectors and masonic librarians. Liszt was ordered by the Jesuits to burn thousands of manuscripts of 17th century music. He copied them first and then burned the originals. The masonic library of Rome's Grand Orient has many works there.

I can only imagine that this info will crush musicians world-wide. Let the truth be known! I am happy somebody is finally revealing it. Even our friend Alan Watt has revealed the 'Beatles Hoax' a few times.

Let me also add that in 17th century and 18th Century Encyclopedia's written in Venetian dialect here, we have listed 1000s of Musicale Composers that were from Venice, yet we are left believe that prolific Vivaldi wrote all this music. According to his contemporaries, like Freemason Carlo Goldoni and Guiseppe Tartini, "he was a 'mediocre' composer". Yet Vivaldi's works are very complex. Being a Vivaldi myself, I can tell you straight out, that Vivaldi did NOT write all of his works and that they many were falsely attributed to him. So this is another 'Mozart Myth'.

You guys need to get OLD encyclopedias, OLD reference books. I can share mine with you all, but you will have to translate the Venetian''

///

http://z10.invisionfree.com/The_Unhi...I/ar/t9514.htm

I could add similar comments by various musicologists, teachers, authors, and others who have examined this subject of Mozart (myth and reality) in detail. I have dozens of the same kind. So, we look forward to your next post. Hopefully it will at last have you discussing the life, the career and music that is by tradition attributed to W.A. Mozart. I think the above puts your non-contributions in to perspective. But don't feel bad. You are interested only in more of the same.

We were all misinformed. It's a tough thing but that's the fact. Get used to it. And stop wasting your time on this thread if you have nothing to offer but personalised insults and zero discussion on Mozart.

Thank You

Robert (Newman)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Patrick_Bateman

Musicology is having to invent conversations with himself now that everyone has discovered his douche bagness

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M(i)ster Bateman:

Robert’s “douche bagness?” Your originality is to be commended. Your prize: a box of Mozartkugelen. With a set of Cellophane-wrapped “Amadeus” trading cards, I assure you.

I assure you that I am a very separate entity from Robert.

Is it so difficult to believe that there are those on the musical landscape who – at last - ask some hard-hitting questions about the stories and long-assumed “history” we have all grown up with; who have the Stones to do the tedious and time-consuming digging and ultimately come across – and accept - conclusions that may challenge, if not shatter, long-held (mis) conceptions? There are those who follow the information regardless of its final destination?

Moreover, is it so hard to believe that there are those of us willing to listen to those “out-of-the-box” and so-called “Conspiracy Kook” researchers who dare look down some very “grown-over” paths that time and prejudice have concealed and ultimately forgotten? To at least consider the possibility that we’ve been sold a very long bill of goods?

As a classically-trained musician, I have long experienced the “pedestal worship” of The Towering Myths; almost all of my entreaties to the vast majority of my fellow performers to explore the music of many very fine but neglected composers have fallen on deaf ears… This has been particularly true of the faculty and admin at Conservatory and other halls of Academia. It is as if the scores of these marvelous, all-too neglected composers are the Holy Water and Cross proffered to the Draculas of entrenched conventionalism.

Therein lay, for me, the proof: it is The Prejudice.

As for the film and play “Amadeus,” the story line, fictionalizations and license with actual events should lend the real title “Apocrypha - a Study in Parody.”

Sir, quite often, sacred cows make the best hamburgers. So please sit down at the table and have a bite. The food is quite good and worth a try… Oh, and please pass the condiments…My favorite brand is “Mozart!”

Great stuff, ERS !!

'Professing themselves to be wise they became fools'.

Ouch ! How is that for the current state of research into western musical history ?

Regards

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ERS

M(i)ster Bateman:

Robert’s “douche bagness?” Your originality is to be commended. Your prize: a box of Mozartkugelen. With a set of Cellophane-wrapped “Amadeus” trading cards, I assure you.

I assure you that I am a very separate entity from Robert.

Is it so difficult to believe that there are those on the musical landscape who – at last - ask some hard-hitting questions about the stories and long-assumed “history” we have all grown up with; who have the Stones to do the tedious and time-consuming digging and ultimately come across – and accept - conclusions that may challenge, if not shatter, long-held (mis) conceptions? There are those who follow the information regardless of its final destination?

Moreover, is it so hard to believe that there are those of us willing to listen to those “out-of-the-box” and so-called “Conspiracy Kook” researchers who dare look down some very “grown-over” paths that time and prejudice have concealed and ultimately forgotten? To at least consider the possibility that we’ve been sold a very long bill of goods?

As a classically-trained musician, I have long experienced the “pedestal worship” of The Towering Myths; almost all of my entreaties to the vast majority of my fellow performers to explore the music of many very fine but neglected composers have fallen on deaf ears… This has been particularly true of the faculty and admin at Conservatory and other halls of Academia. It is as if the scores of these marvelous, all-too neglected composers are the Holy Water and Cross proffered to the Draculas of entrenched conventionalism.

Therein lay, for me, the proof: it is The Prejudice.

As for the film and play “Amadeus,” the story line, fictionalizations and license with actual events should lend the real title “Apocrypha - a Study in Parody.”

Sir, quite often, sacred cows make the best hamburgers. So please sit down at the table and have a bite. The food is quite good and worth a try… Oh, and please pass the condiments…My favorite brand is “Mozart!”

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You may want to look closely at Della Croce, the supposed painter of the " Mozart Family portrait"C 1780-1781
Compare this painting to the miniature Della Croce of Mozart, in which Mozart is identified by "Adam"
The miniature and larger format painting are not by the same artist. Of course, the Mozarteum has just had to admit the so called "Boy in a bird's next" portrait of Mozart is a fake.
I proposed this many many years ago, since the Zafanny portrait is 80 CM's and is not accompanied by a companion portrait of Nannerl, nor could it have traveled safely in a coach due to it's size.
Interesting thread, I must say.I particularly like Yanni's insights.

"Johann Sebastian Bach/Georg Friedrich Handel/Claudius Amyand/Desaguliers/Gerhard van Swieten" ie Antonio Cocchi* died as 'marchese Bernardo Tanucci'

As later research has shown, the above statement is wrong. Tannuci was only a disciple of Antonio "ernico" Cocchi.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by yanni

At his mother's burial in Paris, Mozart promoted his father to 'kapellmeister'! (Saint Eustace register), but don't let the fact affect your dialogue with "Musicology".

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see CASSIN, Jean Baptiste premier porte verge de Saint-Eustache x , 1740-12-23 -> Voir (bebllmgl)

.... Rameau also links to Saint Eustache and its premiere porte abbe Cassin!

Wikipedia, Rameau died on 12 September 1764 after suffering from a fever. He was buried in the church of St. Eustache, Paris the following day.[26]

There were two "Rameau's", contemporaries of Voltaire, the first, Pierre Rameau (1674 – 26! January! 1748!), was a dancing master who, according to "Dance and Music of Court and Theater: Selected Writings of Wendy Hilton" ...in 1705 was employed at the Lyon Opera, married there to Elizabeth La Haye May 23, 1705, his first book Le Maitre a danser was published in Paris 1725. In the introduction, P.Rameau writes he was dancing master of pages to Her Majesty the Queen of Spain. The other, Voltaire's Rameau dying feverish in Paris, as per previous post, does not appear to have ever addressed or received a letter to/from Voltaire even if, as per current version of the truth, they did collaborate, "once only", experts swear, late 1730, creating an opera, "Samson", with Voltaire supplying the lyrics, no doubt, and Rameau the music.

Problem is, another poet also cooperated in the lyrics, Piron.

Going to next year, 1731, an abbe or pere or Pier Cassel was trying to promote by letter his "clavecin occulaire" to Rameau who, apparenlty, did not want to favor him with his own reply, letting Voltaire do it, not directly however but with Thierot as his (their) intermediary. see http://jp.rameau.free.fr/cucuel-poupliniere.htm

Later on, 1736, Voltaire asks Thierot, obviously acting as his secretary, to stop bothering him with the Cassel "file":
(18 Nov 1736 Voltaire to Thierot: After sending Thierot his chapter on Newton’s work on Music, Thierot replied sending V instead his own re maths on the clavecin. Voltaire assures Thierot that in the dispute between Rameau-Orphee and Euclide-Cassel, Rameau-Orphee is the winner-ie Thierot IS Cassel).

The "puzzle" continues to 1758 when another dancing book is published in Paris, ommiting P.Rameau, his predecessor and their heirs, if any, of any intelectual property rights .

Arte de danzar a la francesa, adornado con quarenta figuras, que enseñan el modo de hacer todos los diferentes passos de la danza del minuete, con todas sus reglas, y de conducir los brazos en cada passo: y en quatro figuras, el modo de danzar los
Published in 1758 by engraver, writer, and translator Minguet* é Irol, this manual incorporates sections of Raoul-Feuillet's Choreographie (Paris, 1700) and Pierre Rameau's Le Maître de danser (Paris, 1725), although neither author is credited. Part one describes feet positions, the manner of managing one's hat, and provides a large vocabulary of steps used in eighteenth-century dance technique. Part two includes dances by Feuillet and French dancer and choreographer, Guillaume-Louis Pecour

There are many more similar little puzzles that need be solved before removing "Voltaire's" own "iron mask"**.

But, this is Mozart's thread.


* Look for "Joanes Minguet", (Títol D. Maria Barbara, mvger de Fernando VI. A. 1729 [Document gràfic] / Joanes Minguet sculpt). to document V's spanish traces 1705 and/or earlier.

**Voltaire was the one who first pubished the myth of "The man in the iron mask"

"Rameau looks just like Voltaire" should be, today, the reaction of Musée des Beaux-Arts, Dijon, surprised visitors who also have an idea what Voltaire looked like at the time, around 1761, and that’s why, perhaps, Voltaire's bust is to be found, I assume, elsewhere, propably Paris.

In Paris at the time, they had a similar problem with Caffieri's first presentation of Rameau's bust, realising that he did not look just like Voltaire (who rarely exposed his face to the general parisien public anyway) but also looked very much like the King’s own doctor, known as “Camille Falconet”:

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fi...e_V0001845.jpg.

The portrait, writes the good site today, is by a “C.N.Wellcome” and only after magnifying to 200%, one sees that it’s actual by C.N.Cochin, an old aquaintance of readers of “Yanni’s” previous posts on comte de Saint Germain (look for “Two works by Poe decoded” in this site), favorite of Mme de Pompadour and in charge of all painters, engravers and sculptors of France, including "docteur Falconet’s" cousin, the sculptor*.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%89t...urice_Falconet

As such Camille Falconet, médécin consultant du Roy, né à Lyon le 29 mars 1671, mort à Paris le 8 février 1762… dies a month before....

....March 23 to April 5th 62 French Record Office of Foreign Affairs correspondence between the Duc de Choiseul and Comte d’Affy on a Saint-Germain who “is again in Holland under assumed names, that he has purchased an estate in Guelders and suggests that he is making dupes of people, with chemical secrets, in order to earn a living” and that he then returned back to Harwich and warned to quit the English shores" **.

* See Falconet: His Writings and His Friend Diderot by Anne Betty Weinshenker, page 118 for a “special relationship” between Cochin and sculptor Falconet

** sentence in bold is wrong

Jean Astruc...né à Sauve (Gard) le 19 mars 1684 et mort à Paris le 5 mai 1766(!!), is yet another of Dr Voltaire's aliases* so, adding Jean Astruc to Camille Falconet and Antonio "Ernico" Cocchi we now have four medical aliases in total. Dr Taylor, who allegedly operated on "G.F. Handel" and "J.S.Bach", ie on himself**, is the fifth, and hopefully last alias from the medical profession.

Needless to say, "they", including music masters, have all been entered in my Saint Germain mastertimeline for checking presences-abscences, their medical works have been all checked for dates of publication and content and as such they all "pass with honours" the "yet another alias" test.

When Camille Falconet, of previous post, passed away, his library was transfered to Louis XV's own. It contained all of Astruc's publications, including his 1721 dissertation on la petire virole. Montpelier 1721.

See: Falconet M. Catalogue de sa Bibliothèque, Vol 1.

More interesting points from Astruc's life:

En 1729, Auguste II de Pologne le nomme son premier médecin,

becomes titulaire de la chaire de médecine au Collège royal en 1731,

elected élu membre de l'Académie de médecine en 1743,

On 17 octobre 1743, il monta en chaire sans président et fut couronné par le doyen Col de Villars

For "Voltaire's" earlier roots and background in Medicin and Southern France, one may further examine:

CASSIN, N. chirurgien x , 1700-01-14 -> Voir (mimi21) & CASSIN, Nicolas Sieur de Poresse x CHAPPELLE, Catherine, 1663-07-21 -> Voir (bmylg)

Took me a while to find Poresse*** in southern France and no, I don't believe Voltaire was N.Cassin, even if, at this stage of my research, I am convinced that Votaire's "Aruet"**** family and birth details are made up. He was a Cochin-Cassin-Cocceji etc but his early history, his Hanover-London contacts, his Brandenburg concerti, his wealth and his character (audacity , fearlessness, irony, manners) prove otherwise.

In 1983 another descendant, Renato Galliani, wrote 'Voltaire, Astruc, et la maladie vénérienne', SVEC 219 (1983),

That's all for today.


*V used, in total, 188 aliases acc to Wikipedia

**-whoever HE was

*** A Poresse Castle is mentioned in Maria Stuart's, Queen of Scots, visit to France, in Rouen. At the time she had a M.Rouisseau for trusted messenger.

**** "Voltaire" comes from Volta Ire in latin, ie "take a tour"

Before closing for now V's medical itinerary, one should address the subject of Francesco Algarotti's name-giving by Voltaire-Astruc:

In his 1736 book "De Morbis Venereis" (Paris, Rue Saint Jacques, in latin, http://www.marshall.edu/special-coll...man/astruc.asp), "Astruc" refers to a "pulveris algarot" for treatment of V.D. patients.

This pearl of a find helps us understand not just Voltaire's character but also how Casanova (who, in his memoirs, has countless references on Voltaire and Algarotti both- as well as to all other "suspect names and contacts' of ours) managed to avoid any- relative to his "contacts" - infection.

This may perhaps explain Dr Flemmings later discovery of penicilin (from another kind of "algarot") but it doesn't answer our curiosity as to the real name of Count "Algarotti".

Continuing the road to Voltaire's iron mask, the reader is reminded that our heroes, mainly Voltaire and Pierre Michel Hennin/Augustin Henri Cochin (the last, a subject of renewed interest by historians eversince our relative revelations in this site), closely linked to all european and american leaders, sovereigns and politicos of their time, both were masters in the art of disguise during the long period of wars and social changes they were part of. Our steps therefore, in this labyrinth of their doing, are extremely hard to take, the Minotaur of error waiting behind every wrong turn, yet thru luck and perseverence, we are confident to overcome him.

It was by luck that we fell a couple of days ago on : “le sieur Felix, premier chirurgien du Roi, recoit du Roi une gratification de 50000 ecus. La marquise de Muys est nomme sous gouvernent des Enfants de France”, 14th Juin 1719 . (Gazette de France, Vol. 2 by Théophraste Renaudot)

The King's doctor, Felix "de Muy" (the chapter of the Gazette is exclusively on them), answers, we believe, many of our questions on our above heroes but the re presentation needs time to be prepared.

It will, however, be dedicated to le bâtard de Caussigny, executed during the terror in Marseille, for defending, among others, his Valbelle property as well, and will assist, I am sure, historians-genealogists improve their recent publication on "Joseph-Alphonse-Omer de Valbelle" in Wikipedia.

quote: Joseph Ignace de Valbelle il devint l’héritier unique de la fortune familiale. On dit de son frère qu’il laissa de nombreux bâtards

All in good time.

For readers new to this thread, a belated introductory note:

After closing my subjects in this site -on 18th cent history and music- some four years ago, many of my heroes came alive again in various encyclopedic articles (either as new subjects alltogether or, others, revised). I did not react until the publication of an article on Pierre Michel Hennin, France’s resident in Geneva around 1764-1770, a main hero of my strories , by professor X.
I sent him an email, correcting some of his data and, after receiving Professor X’s positive reply, I answered back thanking him, on 12th Jan 2015:

Have just discovered today-partly thanks to your article, which forced back to researching a story I was hoping to forget-that Antonio ernico* (hence-later "celestino") Cocchi is the same man as "Antoine Henry Cochin, chevallier, conseiller d’etat du roi Louis XV", known in Versailles as "Docteur Cocchi" at the time of cardinal Bernis, friend of Joseph-Marie Vien, painter.
IE he was either the father or a much elder brother of Augustin Henry de Beaupre both, in such case, children of Voltaire's celebre avocat Henry Cochin..
The question who the father of Gioachino Cocchi was, is still "pending", if one has to follow strict heraldic genealogy rules. I don't and, in any case, I am now more interested, and quite excited, on Voltaire's timeline "dark spaces", starting from his equally dark London period 1726-1729, coinciding with Antonio Cocchi' s own...both friends with Isaac Newton and members of London's elite.

Thereafter I did proceed to research “Voltaire”, initially his London period, then his later life details and correspondence ( a nightmare) and, before even completing that, adding as many bits as possible to my timeline, was then drawn to pre 1726 as well, soon realising that V did not just have “many similarities” with Antonio Cocchi, G.F.Handel, J.S.Bach, Rameau and Claudius Amyand sr, but also with Montesquieu- a doctor/historian- as well and, possibly, with Andrew Michael Ramsay**

Montesquie’s data tallying with my presences-absences test plus the fact that Voltaire was named later, 1745’s, official historian and Louis XV own secretary at Versailles (instead of M) closed the “another alias” test for Montesquie, enlarging at the same time the, enormous already, research field still further, my Saint Germain-all aliases-timeline, doubling in size, from January 12th to present, while in these short period, new tentative aliases were popping all over as my cursor was running up in timespace to the early 19th cent. but also going back sometimes to the 15th.

Going forward, data volume, links and complexity increased more than than pre 1745, a decent presentation and form looked (still looks) impossible, so I decided to concentrate to the relatively easy years, 1700 to 1745, starting at the beginning .

That’s how, looking for music masters, royal doctors and tutors in the court of Versailles, I came to Felicitous Felix, as above, whose “De Muy” title and descendants added many parts, enough for most*** of my puzzle's heroes.


*same person as Augustin Henry(i) Cochin de Beaupre, Procureur du Roi a Versailles
**V and Ramsy both became members of the Royal Academy of Sciences Dec 1729, while Handel ’s Lotario was first performed (1729-12-2 in London, King's Theatre)
Ramsy will not further be examined due to lack of serious bio or correspondence data. Historian Gibbon however, will be.
***"my" comte de Saint Germain became problematic in the meantime.