I found Dorian Gray hard to read as the constant wit really bugged me. Do we need an epigram in every line?!
And To Kill A Mockingbird- smug self-righteous propaganda.
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I found Dorian Gray hard to read as the constant wit really bugged me. Do we need an epigram in every line?!
And To Kill A Mockingbird- smug self-righteous propaganda.
Do you begrudge the man his genius? Of course anything written by Wilde is going to have natural flair and wit, but this doesn’t intrude, for me, into the text, the author remains hidden enough for the wit to be played by the characters.
Don’t forget that Lord Henry’s art is his language, just as Basil’s art is his paint brush, just as Dorian’s art is his beauty. By all means it is not a perfect novel, but it is bloody damn good.
Before I disagreed with this thread topic, now I hate it and vow to stay away.
I read On The Road whilst travelling around Nepal. They both coupled each other in a a beautiful shambolic way. I'm lucky enough to travel a bit and always try to marry up the right book.
For me this question is a little hard, I don't really finish most of the rubbish, poor books should be abandoned. Middlemarch would be one of those. Most of the rest would be considered pap anyway, so I shalln't include those.
Yes, yes, I was slightly annoyed by that too. However, I thought that The Picture of Dorian Gray was a great book.Quote:
Originally Posted by kelby_lake
I think once I reread it it will be. It's just irritating having every line as an epigram.
Care to explain why Jean Paul Sartre's Nausea so famous. I am no philosopher and i guess that was my problem. couldn't make head or tail of the book!!!
Every line? That is a little hyperbole, but I suppose I know what you are getting at. If you have time read it again, I'll be interested you know what you think of it. You could even flick at random on nearly every page and find something of value there. Let's try it, for I am in a funny mood:Quote:
Originally Posted by kelby_lake
Flick:
Music had stirred him like that. Music had troubled him many times. But music was not articulate. It was not a new world, but rather another chaos, that it created in us. Worlds! Mere words! How terrible they were! How clear, and vivid, and cruel! One could not escape from them. And yet what a subtle magic there was in them! They seemed to be able to give a plastic form to formless things, and to have a music of their own as sweet as that of viol or of lute. Mere words! Was there anything so real as words?
Dorian Gray on the language and corruptive philosophy of Lord Henry. I like Wilde's allusion to the mystic world of music, Dorian himself being a pianist of sorts obviously seeing the world to some extent in these terms, maybe taking comfort in them having had his world rocked by the silver tongue of Lord Henry. Wilde here is a little too rhetorical perhaps, a little too many exclamations, but as ever his words flowing beautifully. I could read a shopping list forever if it was written like this.
Another flick:
Anyone you love must be marvellous, and any girl that has the effect you describe must be fine and noble. To spiritualise one's age - that is something worth doing. If this girl can give a soul to those who have lived without one, if she can create the sense of beauty in people whose lives have been sordid and ugly, if she can strip them of their selfishness and lend them tears for sorrows that are not their own, she is worthy of all your adoration, worthy of the adoration of the world.
This is Lord Henry on hearing of Dorian's affection and engagement to Sybil. What struck me here as I was typing it out, was how it both praises and laments at the same time. It is a stirring piece of writing, but underneath comes sadness that Dorian is not to be Henry's, that he has potentially lost some of his affection due to this young girl, who so realistically re-creates the beauty of Shakespeare's women. You could play around with the "adoration" part too, the real adoration is that of Henry's to Dorian's and ultimately not Dorian's to Sybil's. Also that Sybil fails so miserably to gain any adoration from the public at all, once her spell is broken by "Prince" Charming.
Wilde is often passed off as a writer of wit and social comedy, even by the top critics, but there is much more to Wilde to the writer than that, even in his comedies. Wilde is often much deeper than people give him credit for, not that I ever meant to prove that with these quotations, I was merely showing how you can find something of value on every page, or nearly every page.
The portrait of lady by Henry James. So wordy and perplexed for no apparent reason, without any meaning and with a pathetic and masochistic ending for a so called clever heroine.
How Ironic. I really loved Persuasion (my first Austen) but loathed Pride and Prejudice, which takes the crown for my worst classic (so far); didn't care for it one bit and struggled all the way to the end.Quote:
Originally Posted by Orual
I am afraid I'm also not a huge fan of Dorian Gray... I think it would have been very good as a play, because Wilde certainly had a very clear idea of what the stage was supposed to look like and what the character was supposed to feel... But to me, he goes too much in detail...
Nonetheless, it is a very good and deep story. Just not well-written as a novel. (I find) Particularly Lord Henry would work very well on stage with the right manners, posture and tone of voice, but on paper to me he becomes annoying. Only because there is nothing else but his speech. If there was something else to look at, then he would become amusing.
I just find it a shame that there is nothig to be discovered in that book. It is just plain and clear that the portrait is supposed to be Dorian's soul. In my opinion, Wilde put in his story a lot of directions for the actors, but of course, it is not a piece of theatre... On the other hand, not bad writing. Very beautiful wording, and very philosophical.
Dickens is the best and worst, Martin Chuzzlewit is unreadable. Overblown in style, too wordy and frankly boring.
A Christmas Carol, Great Expectations, Oliver Twist, all excellent.
I heartily agree that the theatre is Wilde's true medium, not the novel. With theatre you can excuse self-indulgence (that is what wit boils down to) and bring out the wit and style that Wilde has, whereas in novel form, it's just distracting and mildly irritating:Quote:
Originally Posted by kiki1982
'Wit ought to be a glorious treat like caviar; never spread it about like marmalade', as Noel Coward said.
I never managed to finisch Moby Dick; I just got too bored during those long dissertations concerning whales and whaling etc. (similar dissertations didn't bother me for example in Hugo's Notre-Dame, don't know why).
Another one I was a bit perplexed about was Tropic of Cancer by Miller. I had a bit of a hard time appreciating it's confusing and nonlinear style. (similar style didn't bother me for example in Burroughs' Naked Lunch)
Also I would mention A Farewell to Arms, I'm finishing now and still have mixed feelings about it. Will have to think about it.
:alien:What? How can you not like Bleak House, David Copperfield or Dombey & Son?Quote:
Originally Posted by prendrelemick
(emily00 goes to lie down in darkened room with cold compress to her brow)
Agree with you on the above. I never finished A Farewell to Arms.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dionido