What is your birth religion and current religious status?

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Originally Posted by lichtrausch

What contradictions are you speaking of?

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Well if I try to put my faith in science, its only theories that are consistently being changed or even contradicted, and there are many faiths that are contradictory, however, I do admit that most contradictions are due to the faults of man. That and knowledge is consistently contradicting itself, even different Christian denominations claim Jesus to be one way and another denomination will claim that he is something else (for example: I believe one denomination claims that Jesus is from space). And although some seem more far fetched than some, it is still difficult to wholly put my faith under one system of doctrine because I could turn around and get a completely different response that seems just as valid as the first...

Frustration? yes.

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Originally Posted by MissTwain

I was born Catholic and am now not quite agnostic, but more ambiguous... Its so hard to make up my mind with so many options and not enough proof... Though I'd like to just forget about proofs but its difficult to stray from science.

I am open minded to anything, I just want a form of faith that suits me... any suggestions?

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Roman Catholic. :) There will never be proof. It is faith and the power of the sacrements, especially holy communion, is what makes Catholicism (or Eastern Orthodox, philosophically they are the same) special. It is a path that doesn't lead one astray, if you ask me.

[I'm not getting into a theological discussion with anyone. ]

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Originally Posted by MissTwain

Well if I try to put my faith in science, its only theories that are consistently being changed or even contradicted

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Let's compare the records of Science and Religion.

Science: started from nothing, we continually learned more and more, always willing to admit that there is more to learn and that science is imperfect but yet always getting better and better at explaining the world we live in.

Religion (Judeo-Christian): always claims to have the absolute truth, at times claiming that the earth is flat, everything revolves around the earth, that earth was created 10,000? years ago (i forget the number), that evolution never happened. Only admit they are wrong after first trying their hardest to defame anyone supporting the scientific theories that contradict what they say, and only give in after every idiot can see that they are wrong. Still claim to have the absolute truth in matters which they can't possibly know.


Which one is more honest? more curious? more interested in truth? more productive for the advancement of mankind?

You make very good points, and I do believe it is science that has me doubting any faith in the first place. I think, however, that I'll always feel as if I'm betraying that part of me (as childish and needy as it seems at times) that has the hope for a life beyond mortality if I were to put my whole proverbial heart into science.

I know that in University I've come across professors and students that will laugh arrogantly at you if you claim to believe in a higher power than man, but I think people should believe whatever gets them through the day when times are rough, and often science does not do that for me although it does make me calmer about everyday living and thriving.

But again, I'm still ambiguous and it really just has to do with a certain ambivalence as well. I don't think I should decide where I should put my faith until I decide my own identity as a human first... and I don't think science or religion will deny me that quest.

But I agree that science has done so much for mankind today and I hope it continues to thrive and does not become a scarce resource :D

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Originally Posted by MissTwain

I know that in University I've come across professors and students that will laugh arrogantly at you if you claim to believe in a higher power than man, but I think people should believe whatever gets them through the day when times are rough, and often science does not do that for me although it does make me calmer about everyday living and thriving.

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It's professors like that that should be kicked out on their keyster. How dare they laugh at other's religious beliefs. It makes my blood boil.

Science does not violate religion unless you believe in a literal interpretation of the Bible. I don't. The Bible is a work that reveals our relationship to God. It is humanly written but Godly inspired. Science is God's handiwork and what science reveals is God in His manifestation. God is science. [Of course these are my beliefs.]

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Originally Posted by MissTwain

...even different Christian denominations claim Jesus to be one way and another denomination will claim that he is something else...

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There can be some leeway in unimportant things, but I find quite a bit of consistency in the basic ideas of the Christian faith.

Maps of the territory (descriptions of "reality") are only maps, they are not the territory.

Using Biblical truths to try and map out geography or things that science delves into may seem inaccurate.

Many persons describe an "inner" journey of values and belief systems. I find the Bible full of all sorts of wisdom about these states, and so prefer it as a map of that territory.
There are others, including psychology, which is an art, or psychiatry, which claims to be science based.

I still prefer the wisdom of the ancients generally, when sojourning in such locales.

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Originally Posted by Virgil

It's professors like that that should be kicked out on their keyster. How dare they laugh at other's religious beliefs. It makes my blood boil.

Science does not violate religion unless you believe in a literal interpretation of the Bible. I don't. The Bible is a work that reveals our relationship to God. It is humanly written but Godly inspired. Science is God's handiwork and what science reveals is God in His manifestation. God is science. [Of course these are my beliefs.]

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It's quite understandable actually. By definition an Atheist sees believers as believing in a made-up entity. For them God is as real as Snow White or Zeus. If someone told you in dead earnest that they believed in Zeus would you be able to take them seriously?

Note: I'm not expressing my own views, just trying to understand the reasoning of Atheists.

Even a simple survey-style thread becomes a stupid, seemingly never-ending debate. Arguing about religion is pointless. What does this conversation have to do with religous texts?

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Originally Posted by JuniperWoolf

Even a simple survey-style thread becomes a stupid, seemingly never-ending debate. Arguing about religion is pointless.

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You may be intimately familiar with the topic of this debate and therefore find it pointless but I'm sure others are being introduced to some new ideas and interpretations and are profiting from the thread.

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What does this conversation have to do with religous texts?

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Many of the ideas being espoused in this conversation originated from or are influenced by religious texts.

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Originally Posted by backline

Many persons describe an "inner" journey of values and belief systems. I find the Bible full of all sorts of wisdom about these states, and so prefer it as a map of that territory.
There are others, including psychology, which is an art, or psychiatry, which claims to be science based.

I still prefer the wisdom of the ancients generally, when sojourning in such locales.

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I completely agree, I hope it didn't seem like I took the bible literally... But yes, the way I write my own moral code is much like what Jesus taught.

I bring up these things because sometimes I feel so lost in making up decisions about my spiritual identity that it gets frustrating for me and I never know what to settle on... so far you all bring up really interesting points and thanks... feel free to message me if you have any suggestions of books or doctrines you think would be useful :D I love knowledge

This is my first post here, I'm just gonna kind of go with the title. My father is a Sunni Muslim who immigrated to the US. My mother was the daughter of a Southern Baptist Preacherman. Before I die, I will prove that the three books of the monotheists are Godyallahweh's true religion.

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Originally Posted by Bark

...I will prove that the three books of the monotheists are Godyallahweh's true religion.

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This should be good (pulls up chair, gets popcorn).:)

It is easy. a society is built upon a multitude of factors, economic, social, legal, the three books give the total, one alone does not.

That’s great! A simple question asked turns into another debate over how my ism is better than yours by folks who need to validate their uncertainty.

I guess your right. The suffix ism means basically a school of thought, some people learn at school. some are home educated.