Ranking of Dostoevskij novels

Your argument conflates "minor responsibility" with "our guilt" in prosecutorial misconduct (which is an illegal act). This perfectly demonstrates my original point that some of Tolstoy's ideas (in this case, history/fate being worked in minor increments by the many) being politically abused--if indeed you are arguing that our hypothetical kindergarten teacher was guilty of (or responsible for) a crime in the way he or she voted. Think for a moment about the implications of that view.

Time to respectfully agree to disagree? :)

I thought I made it clear that the way I was using "guilt" did not suggest criminal liability (and thus avoided conflation). A driver who causes an accident is not criminally liable, but must pay "restitution" for the damage caused. A government which perpetrates an injustice may offer reparations (on behalf of all citizens) without suggesting that all of the citizens are crooks (although all of the citizens are "guilty" of having an injustice promulgated on their supposed behalf, and are "responsible" for due diligence in trying to prevent injustice). I do think that Tolstoy (or Tolstoyan thought) may have influenced my thinking here. (Also, I think this notion can be extended to the ridiculous, as in the possibility of reparations for slavery 160 years after the fact.)

I have no problem with disagreement; I was simply exploring whether and where we DO disagree.

The trouble is that accusing a person/voting group of being guilty (your word) of a crime (prosecutorial misconduct is illegal) because of a vote (your example) means exactly that. If you want to walk it back now (or if you feel you already did, or if it was never what you really meant) then fine (and whew!). We agree the kindergarten teacher lacks criminal culpability. In this particular case, we agree on little else, but we both seem content with that. So lets move on.

"Guilt" does not necessarily imply criminal culpability. I certainly never said (that I remember) and never meant that voters are guilty for the crimes of elected officials in that sense. Apparently either I was unclear, or you misunderstood.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ecurb

"Guilt" does not necessarily imply criminal culpability.

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No, but being guilty of a CRIME does. And prosecutorial misconduct is (still) illegal.

But, okay, okay, we agree that the retired kindergarten teacher from Des Moines and those who voted with him/her are not criminally culpable. God bless the United States of America.* :patriot:

*Where, as far as one's vote goes, to quote the immortal Cindi Lauper, "there ain't no law against in yet." :)