That spell of words creating a halo around Thomas More makes me think it is just begging to be broken.
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That spell of words creating a halo around Thomas More makes me think it is just begging to be broken.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Terror
I’ve just been reading Chaucer’s The Nun’s Priest’s Tale in the Canterbury Tales in which is quoted this same text from the Letter to Timothy (which scholarship for the last century or so would attribute to a writer far less subtle and imaginative than Paul).
For seint Paul seith, that al that writen is,
To our doctryne it is y-write, y-wis.
Taketh the fruyt, and lat the chaf be stille.
The ghastly passage from 2 Samuel strikes me as an obvious example of ( very nasty) chaf. Even the version in Chronicles had to tone it down.
2 Timothy 3:16-17 is often cited by Biblical literalists as proof that the New Testament was divinely inspired. But since the author was writing before the texts that ended up in the New Testament had been selected and canonized as Scripture, he could not have been talking about them. Rather he is referring to the Hebrew Scriptures--and possibly to the translation his community used (the Septuagint), which was reputed to have been divinely inspired. The author does not say Scripture, of course, but ypaphn ("writing"), which can be used synonymously with Septuagint in Koine* But it cannot mean New Testament because at the time there was no New Testament as such.
Of course the literalist claim that 2 Timothy 3:16-17 provides a "proof text" that the letter (with the rest of the NT) is "from God"' and therefore infallible is absurd on the face of it. It is as if I were to say: "Everything Pompey Bum says so is from God and therefore infallible. Why? Because this post by Pompey Bum says so, and of course everything Pompey Bum says is from God and therefore infallible. But the text is not making such a ridiculous claim, even if some Christians do. And for the record, Pompey Bum's opinions are as fallible as the Bible.
*This idea was suggested to me by Helmut Koester, the well-known Biblical scholar and student of the great Rudolph Bultmann (I was a friend of Koester's daughter).
Not long after Jesus's death, the apostle Paul counseled total obedience to the state (the very Roman state that had crucified his savior), claiming in Romans 13.1 that "The powers that be are ordained by God." Since there exists no authority save by the act of God, it follows that those who do not submit to earthly rulers are in effect resisting celestial authority "and shall receive to themselves damnation." Preaching while that homicidal autocrat, Nero, was sitting on the throne, Paul assures his followers that the ruler is both virtuous and benign, working for the good of all and ready to punish evildoers. He deserves obedience not only out of fear "but also for conscience sake" "for he is the minister of God." So should people "render tribute" (taxes) to the authorities, for they do God's service. Soon after this, at the instigation of a rival Christian faction, Paul himself [along with Peter and a number of other Christians] is said to have been arrested and executed by the divinely-ordained secular authorities.
By Dr. Michael Parenti, History As Mystery
Romans 13:1-7 (New International Version)
Submission to the Authorities
Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience. This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God's servants, who give their full time to governing. Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.
The divine right of kings!!!!! Indeed this is where it started, eh??? Or was it with King Saul in the
Old Testament???? Saul or Paul???
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackson Richardson
What are your suggestions, Red Terror, for improvement?
Poor old Saul. Getting the blame for the divine right of bloody kings. Yes PB, I'd prefer lists of books read, even twenty years ago. I think Nero's older than that.
I find the Jacob/Esau story immoral, rewarding theft and trickery.