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The story of the bullfighter helps in "humanizing" her a bit - showing that before they were "the rebels" they were ordinary people trying to live. But yes, I would not put it past Hemingway to slip a good bullfighting story in wherever he possible could.
How does the language in this book compare with Hemmingway's others? It often seems rather stilted. For example, in chapter 15 when the guards are chatting to each other, one of them replies to another: 'Yes. But they are not as formidable as our aviation. We have an aviation that is insuperable.' Is this an attempt to make English resemble Spanish, or does he always write like that?
Ah yes that is a good point. It does illustrate the way in which they were just ordinary people once before the war changed them into being rebels, having to live in caves in the mountains.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles Darnay
Friction is mounting in the cave. It is difficult to imagine yourself 1) deliberately winding up a dangerous killer, 2) shooting someone you know even vaguely. Don Roberto has bigger cojones than I have.
Chapter 18 was interesting. Was the British economist (Mitchell, I think) a reference to a real person? The only famous British economist I can think of from that time was John Maynard Keynes. I can't imagine him roving around Spain during the Spanish Civil War. If it wasn't a reference to a real person then it seems an odd thing to write about. Robert Jordan's reminiscence of his discussion with Karkov in Gaylords about the POUM putsch was interesting. George Orwell fought with the POUM and wrote with great bitterness on how the communists had betrayed and murdered his friends. Karkov implied that the POUM were not very effective. iirc Orwell said not many of them had had much military experience, and that also it could take a long time to make decisions, because, as they were an anarchist group, decisions had to be negotiated and voted for. Orwell said it was still worth the trouble. Orwell was nearly killed himself. He was shot through the throat by a fascist. I cannot remember exactly how he got out, but I bet the communists later regretted letting him slip through their fingers.
How much have you guys read so far?
Just over half way through.
I have read about 34%.
Finding this love affair all too implausible and too annoying. Putting me off from the book.
I am on chapter 28 or 29, which is a bit more than half-way through
I am not sure how typical For Whom The Bell Tolls is of Hemmingway's writing, but he has a unique style, at least I have not read anything quite like this. I have never read anyone write in a stilted or ungrammatical English to suggest a foreign language. I have not read many books with quite so much dialogue. I have not read many books in with a character like Pilar who likes to recount long tales to the other characters.
Has anyone ever tried to film one of Hemmingway's books? I would have thought it would be a problem because the film maker would have to cut out so much of the talking, but if you cut out the talking then it's not Hemmingway.
The dialogue is very Hemingway like, the use of the stilted/ungrammatical language in order to try and give the effect of a foreign language is unique to this novel.Quote:
Originally Posted by kev67
There have in fact been several of Hemingway's novels made into movies, including For Whom the Bell Tolls, though none recently most of them have been done between the 30s-50s.
There is a new version of The Old Man and the Sea
Chap 30: Odd the way Robert Jordan thinks about his father's suicide with his grandfather's pistol considering Hemmingway's own end.
I am very annoyed with Maria and this whole improbable love affair.
She is not like Hemmingway's wife of the time, Martha Gellhorn.
The chapters from about chapter 30 are quite short, now that things are getting under way. I only have about four chapters and seventy pages left to read. I noticed the last two chapters, especially the last, are much longer. I expect the last chapter deals with he aftermath of the attack and a long, difficult escape, which not all of them make. I wonder if Maria makes it. I suspect for dramatic reasons either Robert or Maria has to die. Robert seems to be the main protagonist, but the book's not in first person narration, so it is not certain he will survive. I would say that apart from Pilar, most of the others have, at best, an evens chance. The Gypsy might make it because he is uncommitted and likely to make his own escape. Pablo has to lead the surviving band out, but that does not mean he will get to the end of the book. We could hold a sweepstake:
- Robert Jordan
- Maria
- Pablo
- Pilar
- Anselmo
- The Gipsy
- Agustin
- Fernando
- Primitivo
- Eladio
Chap 42:
The Andrés subplot was a good one. I was wrong-footed twice. I especially liked the description of the traffic jam caused by one truck crashing into the back of another in the dark. Hemmingway must have seen something like that to describe it so well.
There is now only one chapter left, which makes me worry Robert, Maria, Pilar and the rest.
Not bad, I'd like to give it four and a quarter stars.
I would not say it was the most affecting book I have ever read, but I do feel quite affected. The thing is, you always knew it would end up bad, if not on this mission then the next. The Republicans did lose after all.
I wonder if Hemmingway did inspire a lot of post-war war films. War films these days seem to be all action, but the post-war war films had a lot of build-up, then eventually the action gets under way and then there's a five minute come down at the end.
The biggest surprise to me was the character of Pablo. He wouldn't get into any war film, at least not as one of the good guys.
I also noticed a trick I've read in other books. A character says or does something, which even though said or done in a straightforward way, you as the reader do not take seriously or misread. Later on, it becomes significant.
There is always that risk with the historical fiction, I guess... We all know what will happen.
Finished it two days ago and, boy, am I glad that it is over!
S P O I L E R S
Did not care about the plot, characters, or the style. The only good thing that came out, for me, was that I did some reading on the Spanish War, which is an era I am not familiar.
I did expect this kind of ending; admittedly something a little more dramatic but Hemingway did not offer that so that Jordan can die like a reeaaalll hero by sacrificing himself. Bah. Not impressed at all.
Hemmingway is one of those famous authors who I have heard of all my life, but never read. I was glad to read him at long last. He had a reputation for being a very macho writer, and so he was. He was also interesting and different. I did consider nominating The Old Man and the Sea. I remember my father telling me what a great book is was. It is also quite short, so a good way of checking Hemmingway out without committing yourself to a 300+ page novel. OTOH For Whom the Bell Tolls is often rated his best novel, and it is set in The Spanish Civil War. I have read George Orwell's Homage to Catalonia about the Spanish Civil War, and I recently found out Lauree Lee, the author of Cider With Rosie wrote an account of his time there, I assume fighting with the International Brigade. I hope to read that too.
One thing that surprised me was that I expected Pilar to continue the story about the day they killed some fascists in a cruel way. She said something about regretting letting the drunken good-for-nothings get involved. I wondered whether there was a second part of the story that explained why Pablo had lost interest in continuing the fight.