the holy ghost/the holy spirit

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ShadowsCool

IThose scriptures that you bring up are totally unsupported by the Bible. They are not mere errors you purport, they are in total opposition to biblical teaching.


What the Koran has done is built a whole new gospel, one without God of the Bible.

Now I can blow holes through the Koran, and I'm not afraid to do so.
[/COLOR][/I]

---

1 . Say : O ye that reject Faith!

2 . I worship not that which ye worship,

3 . Nor will ye worship that which I worship.

4 . And I will not worship that which ye have been wont to worship,

5 . Nor will ye worship that which I worship.

6 . To you be your Way, and to me mine.

Everyone has to give his answer in his/her grave and at dooms day. talk to u later there as allah also said "Then shall ye all return unto me, and I will judge between you of the matters wherein ye dispute" i put my case in front of Him..
.. :)

OK my friends:

ShadowsCool: Have you ever actually read the Qur'an, or are you just parroting what you have been taught? I have read the Qur'an and while I disagree with most of it, I have found points and scriptures with which I do agree. I am a Christian, and I would never make a good Muslim. Tearing down others beliefs is a very poor way to witness.

usman.khawar: Have you ever actually read the Bible, or are you also parroting what you have been taught? The same thing applies, tearing down others is no way to witness.

You see, the time comes when a person must believe because they are convinced, not just tag along with others beliefs. Jesus said "Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Each of you must ultimately come to a place where your questions concerning scripture will drive you to seek God for yourself. As Job said while enduring his torment: "Job 19:[25] For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:
[26] And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:
[27] Whom I shall see for myself, and mine eyes shall behold, and not another; though my reins be consumed within me."

Conviction had set in. There was now no doubt in Job's mind, for he had had a revelation for himself, personally. This is what a believer must find, God personally for themselves. Conviction of just who God is and how He works in the heart of the individual.

The Love of God be with you both, I would be honored to call each of you friend.

God bless

Pen

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by usman.khawar

1 . Say : O ye that reject Faith!

Everyone has to give his answer in his/her grave and at dooms day. talk to u later there as allah also said "Then shall ye all return unto me, and I will judge between you of the matters wherein ye dispute" i put my case in front of Him..
.. :)

---

First of all, nothing against you personally.

I do not reject faith!

My faith happens to be different from your faith.

Paul has taught me,

Galatians 1:6-10 "I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a different gospel; 7 which is really not another; only there are some who are disturbing you and want to distort the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed! 9 As we have said before, so I say again now, if any man is preaching to you a gospel contrary to what you received, he is to be accursed!"

Your gospel teaches that Jesus was a creature created by God.

My gospel teaches me that Jesus was the creator and was God.

Why should I abandon my heart for yours?

I am not looking to put you down or make myself better. I believe in what I believe.

Let us just let it go and be well.

Shadows

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pendragon

OK my friends:

ShadowsCool: Have you ever actually read the Qur'an, or are you just parroting what you have been taught? I have read the Qur'an and while I disagree with most of it, I have found points and scriptures with which I do agree. I am a Christian, and I would never make a good Muslim. Tearing down others beliefs is a very poor way to witness.

---

Pen, of course, we are friends. I know where your coming from and hopefully you I. Having said that, I often wonder, what part of any gospel would not someone take a liking to? Most teach virtuous values to be good and love one another. That does not mean, I will go to those gospels because of these points. Are we not supposed to obey the ten commandments anyway? Of course we are.

Have I read the Qu'ran? No. Do I know enough about their central themes? Yes I do.

Do they not teach a different gospel than what Paul teaches? Yes.

Do they not teach that my Lord is but a creature? Of course they do.

Do they deny his Crucifixion, death and Resurrection? They do.

So am I supposed to just shake this off and deny my own faith? Not in a million years.

What more do I need to know about the Qu'ran?

I'm certainly not parroting what I have been taught. Should I prove myself that I know the scriptures? Can't you tell that I know the scriptures?

My belief's don't hinge on understanding; it hinges on clarity of heart! Should I deny the Spirit that moves within me?

I'm not one to engage in the "bashing fest" and "demeaning debates" that tend to happen on the religion thread here, But would love to help you in any way I can as this is something I to struggled with and I struggle to teach my youth group to their understanding. You are welcome to Pm me anytime. But I would leave you with this concept. If we could put God in a box, and say we know everything about him and have him 100% figured out Would he really be God?

www.bible.cc

http://www.hebrew-streams.org/works/...-to-ghost.html

Bible cc is a great place that offers a parell of the hebrew/greek/and every translation that there is so that you can see what words differ and better help you find translation errors vs discrepencys. IE the word begotten in the common John 3:16 does not mean his only born son, the word is actualy monogenes in the greak, meaning a son of special, unique, elect status.

My best advice would be (as much as I love everyone on here) be skeptical of anything you are told, even from me, double check- treat it as a lie until you confirm for yourself that it is true. its okay to doubt, As it makes you stronger to know what you believe in vs what you think you should believe in to fit a title.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by stephofthenight

I'm not one to engage in the "bashing fest" and "demeaning debates" that tend to happen on the religion thread here, But would love to help you in any way I can as this is something I to struggled with and I struggle to teach my youth group to their understanding. You are welcome to Pm me anytime. But I would leave you with this concept. If we could put God in a box, and say we know everything about him and have him 100% figured out Would he really be God?

---

I don't want to sound demeaning in any way to you. But debates are useless, this I agree on. As for bashing, I don't think so. Just some tussle back n forth. As for needing help with scripture I leave that to the Spirit.

I'm not sure if the "you" meant I as far as needing help? Since you posted without any quotations. What I do say is, we all struggle with God because of our sinful nature. Once we recognize we have such a nature, God opens Himself up to us.

As for only begotten; are you suggesting God has more than one Son? I find no support for that thesis.

It's early and my brain is not working in full force, so excuse my demeanor.

As for Bible cc, it is a great place, and I recommend it myself.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ShadowsCool

So am I supposed to just shake this off and deny my own faith? Not in a million years.

---

A thousand times NO You should not deny your own faith! I was just wondering about your knowledge of what the Qur'an teaches, was it from personal knowledge or what someone else said. You seem to have personal knowledge of where it contradicts the Bible, which should be the Christian's Solid Rock upon which to build our lives to the glory of Jesus Christ. God bless you!

Pen

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by stephofthenight

I'm not one to engage in the "bashing fest" and "demeaning debates" that tend to happen on the religion thread here, But would love to help you in any way I can as this is something I to struggled with and I struggle to teach my youth group to their understanding. You are welcome to Pm me anytime. But I would leave you with this concept. If we could put God in a box, and say we know everything about him and have him 100% figured out Would he really be God?

---

Great point Steph. I when we believe that we have God all figured out, we can be sure that we are treading on dangerous ground. Isa.55

[8] For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
[9] For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

2Cor.10

[7] Do ye look on things after the outward appearance? If any man trust to himself that he is Christ's, let him of himself think this again, that, as he is Christ's, even so are we Christ's.

He never said we'd understand, He said believe. Heb.11

[6] But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.



God bless

Pen

Deuteronomy 29:29
The secret things belong to the Lord our God, but those things which are revealed belong to us and to our children forever, that we may do all the words of this law.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pendragon

Great point Steph. I when we believe that we have God all figured out, we can be sure that we are treading on dangerous ground. Isa.55

[8] For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
[9] For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

2Cor.10

[7] Do ye look on things after the outward appearance? If any man trust to himself that he is Christ's, let him of himself think this again, that, as he is Christ's, even so are we Christ's.

He never said we'd understand, He said believe. Heb.11

[6] But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.



God bless

Pen

---

I need to calm down when It comes to God. I admit sometimes I get all rallied up. Thanks guys!

Quote:

---

A: Discussion of any and all faiths and spiritualities, and religious and or sacred texts is encouraged here, but please remember to respect the beliefs of others.
Respect the fact that someone might not agree with you.
Respect the fact that there are others with different points of view.
Respect the fact that people are entitled to post their opinion as long as it is done in a way that is not inflammatory or disrespectful to others.
Respect the fact that there are members here representing myriad faiths, religions and spiritualities.

.

B: These forums are not here for preaching, or attempts to convert, nor promote other religiously affiliated websites.

---

http://www.online-literature.com/for...ad.php?t=15410

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pendragon

OK my friends:

I have read the Qur'an and while I disagree with most of it, I have found points and scriptures with which I do agree.

The Love of God be with you both, I would be honored to call each of you friend.

God bless

Pen

---

Thanks for prays. thank God that shadowscool also cooldown or calmdown :)

i dont beleive you pen that u have read the Quran, one of the apparent reason is that during the discussion about the reasons and arguments for the existence of God, i asked " did u read the book which i shared with u guys ?" u said yes. i asked u what was the argument presented in and u replied with a pray of Muhammad PBUH taken from the start of the thread, and the reason about the Design of this universe. both are not from the book.

God bless u too , and everyone who is in this network and in the world, and passed by, and will come.

Regards

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by usman.khawar

i don't believe you pen that u have read the Qur'an,

---

I have been kind and respected your belief, "there is no God but the true God; and Mohammed is His prophet.". I do object to being called a liar on a public forum. If I am wrong, I accept correction on misquotes. I do not insult you in any way, and I would appreciate your doing the same.


If you ask me about the Qur'an, and I misquote, it has been a long time, probably 20 years ago since I read it, and my memory isn't what it once was. I am, after all, past 50. I may quote wrong, in these things I have asked for correction if I do, from you as a Muslim, from any Christian, or from any of the Jewish faith. If I am wrong on scripture, correct me.

Do not let such things come between our friendship. I would not have bothered with my last post if I wasn't concerned about arguments causing wounded feelings. Now, it seems I should not have ever posted here...

And yet "May Allah smile upon you always."

Pen

This is for all of my LitNet friends whom I have talked to on this thread.

I do not often join in Religious discussions here, because of the inevitability of strong disagreements leading to bruised feelings and often petty and hurtful remarks flying in both directions. We are here to learn from each other, not to fight.

Since I seem to be the cause of usman.khawar's righteous indignation, I will post here no more. If any want to ask me an opinion on anything we have discussed here, feel free to send me a PM.

God richly bless you all, Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Atheist, Agnostic, Hindu, Pagan, or other religion. I am proud to know you all.

Farewell

Pen

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pendragon

Since I seem to be the cause of usman.khawar's righteous indignation, I will post here no more. Pen

---

no pen , i have no anger for you my dear.. if u dont post in this thread, i'll not as well.. accept my apology if i hurt ur feelings. i have already ended the conversation in this thread by saying that its ok we'll wait for dooms day or when we will be in grave for the answer.

May my Allah turns ur ,and all people who really have sincerity in their heart for God, fears in peace, frustrations in happiness.

Regards...