Public Nudity

Well there are different aspects to nudity. I once worked with a m an who was a nudist but none of his colleagues, including myself, knew of it.
Then, one day, a new member of staff came along and became friendly with the nudist to the point that he was invited to attend the nudist camp one weekend. That was how we got to know about the nudist's penchant for public display. Previously I had been introduced to his wife who was, shall we say, a well-built woman in a rotund sort of way and when the new staff member revealed that he had spent part of the nude weekend playing table tennis with her, it conjured up a mental picture both hilarious and strangely satisfying at the same time.
If using the supermarket analogy we arrive at 15% of customers as being fit for full frontal display, imagine what the percentage would be for a Wetherspoons pub. By my reckoning it would be zero and that includes the barmaids.

The derelicts and pedophiles ruin it for everyone else. Kids and public nudity in America shouldn't ever mix.

If America was comfortable with public nudity we would already have public bath houses like in Japan or nudity in ads like in parts of Europe. I remember traveling to Germany and seeing nude girls on regular tv any night of the week after 10 pm.

Our society can't handle it. It's taboo and too late to change now.

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If using the supermarket analogy we arrive at 15% of customers as being fit for full frontal display, imagine what the percentage would be for a Wetherspoons pub. By my reckoning it would be zero and that includes the barmaids.

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Ha, ha, I thought of that. You should even see my local supermarket, Nebitville - it's enough to put you off nudity for life. I'm going to find it difficult popping in there the next time I shop. I'm going to imagine more than I bargained for.

To report back on my morning mission to ASDA, I can honestly say that there was not one single person I saw there who I would want to see naked. Not one. Ancient and/or obese seemed to be the order of the day.

Exactly right. The nude beach was disgusting. I'm a sculptor. I love the human form. I've even seen elderly people who exercised regularly and kept lovely figures. The nude beach, however, was filled with the worst formed people I have seen. I don't think their nudity inspired them at all to improve their fitness, or shower, or get their skin infections looked at by doctors.

A room full of naked models was fine. Go figure.

I do think there should be more nudity in some films. For fun, but also for realism. I understand not allowing for child nudity, but what's wrong with adults being naked together in a movie scene? America gives action movies full of killing PG ratings, but a bare breast is an automatic R. Fake sex that looks too real gets an NC17, which would be death to box office sales, so no respecting U.S. director puts it in movies anymore. 80s movies were full of random nakedness in lighthearted comedies, and I was not warped by them as a small child.

There are so many variables to this nudity thing. The human body as art is beautiful. Two people enjoying intimacy together is fantastic. Being naked all the time, along with everyone else, is not sanitary or civilized. We may as well become tribal again and live in mud huts. Gravity would weigh down certain parts. Weather, parasites and infection would pose more serious problems. A lot of people express themselves artistically in the clothes they choose. I would miss that.

Seeing random people in obvious states of arousal would make for some very awkward situations as well. There is much to be said for mystique, and value in only bestowing certain privileges to a select person.

Love it. Of course, think it should be limited to places where those who don't love it don't have to deal with it.

I would rather see a 1000 lb naked man then dance clothed with people who think someone is disgusting naked. I think judging someones nudity is rude. I saw this picture of this lady who looked like a walking jacket, leather at that, and she was in a bikini. That makes her beautiful. Because she's true to herself enough to be who she is and not make special exceptions for people who have no business judging her (let alone on something as unimportant as looks, yeah I went there, as far as I'm concerned the idea of what is pretty, at least in the states, is pretty ugly).

I worship the nudity of you, not the hypocritical of you. We all kind of are living pretentiously with double standards, one keeping to ourselves furtively and the other morally, religiously and hypocritically. Imagine which part of me is honest, the nude or the clothed with hypocrisy

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Originally Posted by Revolte

I would rather see a 1000 lb naked man then dance clothed with people who think someone is disgusting naked. I think judging someones nudity is rude. I saw this picture of this lady who looked like a walking jacket, leather at that, and she was in a bikini. That makes her beautiful. Because she's true to herself enough to be who she is and not make special exceptions for people who have no business judging her (let alone on something as unimportant as looks, yeah I went there, as far as I'm concerned the idea of what is pretty, at least in the states, is pretty ugly).

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^This. Let's also be friends. ;)

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Originally Posted by Revolte

I would rather see a 1000 lb naked man then dance clothed with people who think someone is disgusting naked. I think judging someones nudity is rude. I saw this picture of this lady who looked like a walking jacket, leather at that, and she was in a bikini. That makes her beautiful. Because she's true to herself enough to be who she is and not make special exceptions for people who have no business judging her (let alone on something as unimportant as looks, yeah I went there, as far as I'm concerned the idea of what is pretty, at least in the states, is pretty ugly).

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I am glad that you are able to perceive the world in the manner, but I neither can nor want to. It may be shallowness on my part, but I have no interest in seeing "everyone is beautiful" - some people are and some people aren't. In the majority of cases, those who work at it are, and those who don't work at it are not.

If an obese woman is proud of her body, great for her, but that fact that she is "true to herself" doesn't matter a fig to me.

We are not all special unicorns, some people are just better than others in some things. SOme people are beautiful and some ugly, some are intelligent and some are stupid, some are just and some are cruel, some are charming and some have the social appeal of boiled cabbage. I don't see what is with he whole craze of everyone is great in their own way. It isn't true, some people are just better than others. And some people are just worse than others.

:rant:

You're very intelligent Alexander.

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Originally Posted by Varenne Rodin

There is much to be said for mystique, and value in only bestowing certain privileges to a select person.

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This makes me think of the Mennonite people, who wear the dresses commonly called "prairie dresses." Married women have their hair pulled back and covered in that little bonnet because their hair is reserved for their husbands. It's not what we do, but it's nice.

There's a time and a place for everything. This is how I feel about some of the disgusting "art" that appears on the forum, completely off topic. It's not that I have a problem with art. But I think Emil said it well, that the eye can only take in so much at a time. When I have 50 images all thrown at me at once, I can't assimilate it. Also, a lot of it resembles a dead plucked turkey, or as the artist described it - a car crash. Not everyone enjoys looking at car crashes. It's fine if a person enjoys looking at car crashes, but others who don't enjoy them aren't necessarily inferior. It's kind of like spiders - there are people who love them - but they've not been bitten by a Hobo Spider. Spiders are necessary though to keep down insects. I've been reminded in the last few days the importance of that. And there's no way to poison Hobos without killing off the good spiders that only eliminate insects.

I go to the lake to my brother's houseboat on weekdays when I can because hardly anyone is there. I went there yesterday, and it is a piece of heaven. I thought of the person on here who asks me, "Why do you live in a place like that, where there's no art? :skep:" Anyway, I'm just glad he feels that way and isn't here.

On weekends there's a man at the lake who has a $400,000 boat docked. He gets very drunk and obnoxious and whips his pants down and urinates in the lake. It's too bad. The water looks clean, but I'd certainly never get in it. Well I guess I won't discuss the wealthy Conservative people now.

I don't know why I seem to go around complaining here all the time. I guess it's just problems in my life that have put a negative spin to my thinking lately.

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Originally Posted by Neely

Ha, ha, I thought of that. You should even see my local supermarket, Nebitville - it's enough to put you off nudity for life. I'm going to find it difficult popping in there the next time I shop. I'm going to imagine more than I bargained for.

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Yes once the idea is lodged in the mind, it's difficult to shake off. I won't have that problem though because the sight of all that conspicuous consumption in supermarkets sends me into a cataleptic trance and I'm on autopilot until I get out of the place.

I adore your commentaries, Vonny.

I think people are assuming that those of us opposed to public nudity have a hatred for ugly or fat people. That simply isn't true, though I do appreciate people who wash their hair more than people who don't. It's slobs I don't care for. If I can do the work I do, and juggle several responsibilities, and still look after my personal care and fitness, it seems reasonable to think that other people can and should if they are planning to go about nude in public.

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Originally Posted by Varenne Rodin

I adore your commentaries, Vonny.

I think people are assuming that those of us opposed to public nudity have a hatred for ugly or fat people. That simply isn't true, though I do appreciate people who wash their hair more than people who don't. It's slobs I don't care for. If I can do the work I do, and juggle several responsibilities, and still look after my personal care and fitness, it seems reasonable to think that other people can and should if they are planning to go about nude in public.

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Don't worry, I'm not planning to go about nude in public, regardless of the hair washing routine.

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Originally Posted by Emil Miller

Don't worry, I'm not planning to go about nude in public, regardless of the hair washing routine.

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Hehe. I won't either.

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Originally Posted by Alexander III

I am glad that you are able to perceive the world in the manner, but I neither can nor want to. It may be shallowness on my part, but I have no interest in seeing "everyone is beautiful" - some people are and some people aren't. In the majority of cases, those who work at it are, and those who don't work at it are not.

If an obese woman is proud of her body, great for her, but that fact that she is "true to herself" doesn't matter a fig to me.

We are not all special unicorns, some people are just better than others in some things. SOme people are beautiful and some ugly, some are intelligent and some are stupid, some are just and some are cruel, some are charming and some have the social appeal of boiled cabbage. I don't see what is with he whole craze of everyone is great in their own way. It isn't true, some people are just better than others. And some people are just worse than others.

:rant:

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That's....not true. At all.

But yes I'm all for attractive people not wearing clothes.

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Originally Posted by Alexander III

It isn't true, some people are just better than others. And some people are just worse than others.

:rant:

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No, some people are better at certain skills.

You are probably great at something, and better at it then someone else.

But there is probably someone better at something that you could never do.

This doesn't make anyone better, or worse. Reminds me of a song:



Stiff Little Fingers - Doesn't Make It Alright


Just because you're nobody
It doesn't mean that you're no good
Just because there's a reason
It doesn't mean it's understood

(Chorus:)
It doesn't make it all right
It doesn't make it all right
It's the worse excuse in the world
And it doesn't make it all right

Just because you're a black boy
Just because you're a white
It doesn't mean you've got to hate him
Doesn't mean you've got to fight

(Chorus)
Some people think they're really clever
To smash your head against a wall
Then they say 'You got it my way'
They really think they know it all

Just because you're a black boy
Just because you're a white
It doesn't mean you've got to hate him
Doesn't mean you've got to fight

(Chorus)

It doesn't make it all
It doesn't make it all
It doesn't make it all right

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Originally Posted by Revolte

No, some people are better at certain skills.

You are probably great at something, and better at it then someone else.

But there is probably someone better at something that you could never do.

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That is true, but skills are not valued equally.

'Value' is relative. People being better than each other or worse than each other is judged by us which makes the view point a little tainted/biased. No, I don't believe in a love-y dove-y 'everybody is equal, let's hold hands and dance around the world singing Auld Sang Lyne' world, but that is the sort of view point that begets genocide, racial/sexual divides, and PROMOTES inequality.

Holy hannah I am inarticulate tonight but that post made me so mad my eyes are still spinning a little bit. Every time I come back to lit-net this happens. Back to the blogs!

Society sets values. It is easier for a famous pop singer to make money than for a famous classical musician. It is easier for a doctor to make money than for a fast food cook.

The relative 'values' do not make one person intrinsically better than another, but they can have a significant life impact.

I would rather see a 1000 lb naked man then dance clothed with people who think someone is disgusting naked. I think judging someones nudity is rude. I saw this picture of this lady who looked like a walking jacket, leather at that, and she was in a bikini. That makes her beautiful. Because she's true to herself enough to be who she is and not make special exceptions for people who have no business judging her (let alone on something as unimportant as looks, yeah I went there, as far as I'm concerned the idea of what is pretty, at least in the states, is pretty ugly).

In reading this post I find myself nodding in agreement in recognizing a certain hypocrisy in these postings about public nudity. Many of the same people who took Alexander to task for his shallowness on the thread about fashion... exclaiming that judging someone by their looks... judging a book by its cover... is so pathetic, seem to be just as shallow in that they have no problem judging others bodies: old... ugly... fat... wrinkly... etc... This really seem to undermine the idea of not judging others according to appearance. Is it really that huge of a step from judging someone in a negative way because their body fails to meet the ideal of youth and sexual attractiveness to judging them because they are wearing the "wrong" clothes? Indeed... how far is it from this point to judging someone upon the basis of their skin color or racial features?

This is a concept and something publicly censured and lift the curtain of publicity and see:

Where is shame but in your eyes and concepts
Your eyes want it, your heart wants to embrace it
Your attitude is a problem and attitudes limit your altitudes

Get out of the box of shame and all you eye is beauty. The nudity in you is something you stealthily want to expose and why you out of arrogance and nothing more than it.

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Originally Posted by Revolte

I would rather see a 1000 lb naked man then dance clothed with people who think someone is disgusting naked. I think judging someones nudity is rude. I saw this picture of this lady who looked like a walking jacket, leather at that, and she was in a bikini. That makes her beautiful. Because she's true to herself enough to be who she is and not make special exceptions for people who have no business judging her (let alone on something as unimportant as looks, yeah I went there, as far as I'm concerned the idea of what is pretty, at least in the states, is pretty ugly).

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I would argue that. To be true to oneself is one thing and to understand how our behaviors affect others is another thing. I love beauty, and sorry to say, but I don't see anything beautiful in 1000 lb body........ no matter how she or he loves herself or himself. It has nothing to do with judging those who love being naked......They can still have their freedom and enjoy being naked....at home. :biggrin5: Some people are more sensitive to surrounding beauty than others. :wink5:

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Originally Posted by osho

This is a concept and something publicly censured and lift the curtain of publicity and see:

Where is shame but in your eyes and concepts
Your eyes want it, your heart wants to embrace it
Your attitude is a problem and attitudes limit your altitudes

Get out of the box of shame and all you eye is beauty. The nudity in you is something you stealthily want to expose and why you out of arrogance and nothing more than it.

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osho, please stop pretending to know everyone. I really don't "stealthily want to expose" anything. Maybe you do, but I am thirteen, and I can tell you most people my age really do not have these stealthy wants.


I agree with stlukes about hypocrisy – but it seems inevitable. We are told not to judge people by their looks, race, age, &c., and as Drkshadow said on another thread, most people do not admit their prejudices openly. 'On Fashion' was too direct maybe.

I mainly mind nudity with the intention to show off. I don't care how beautiful the body is, the idea of advertising one's body appalls me ...

We all want to secretly see nudity and our social blankets and values censor them.

And these social manners, mores are double standards.

If you are really daring you like it
You want to prove to your society that you decent but remove the layers of your mind your sense of decency, not your actual decency is under threats

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Originally Posted by stlukesguild

In reading this post I find myself nodding in agreement in recognizing a certain hypocrisy in these postings about public nudity. Many of the same people who took Alexander to task for his shallowness on the thread about fashion... exclaiming that judging someone by their looks... judging a book by its cover... is so pathetic, seem to be just as shallow in that they have no problem judging others bodies: old... ugly... fat... wrinkly... etc... This really seem to undermine the idea of not judging others according to appearance. Is it really that huge of a step from judging someone in a negative way because their body fails to meet the ideal of youth and sexual attractiveness to judging them because they are wearing the "wrong" clothes? Indeed... how far is it from this point to judging someone upon the basis of their skin color or racial features?

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Are they the same people, because Emil seemed generally in agreement with Alex in the fashion thread.

I don't really mind nudity, even with the elderly. We all have preferences, but I don't think I've ever felt revulsion at the appearance of another person. Except, perhaps, images of the starving, sick or injured.

Even sexually, I do not really value appearances that much relative to personality, there are certain appeals to rounder flesh.

(Edit: And really, I think there is a difference between insisting that a person is ugly, beautiful, or sexually alluring and speaking of what one prefers personally.

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Originally Posted by cl154576

osho, please stop pretending to know everyone. I really don't "stealthily want to expose" anything. Maybe you do, but I am thirteen, and I can tell you most people my age really do not have these stealthy wants.


I agree with stlukes about hypocrisy – but it seems inevitable. We are told not to judge people by their looks, race, age, &c., and as Drkshadow said on another thread, most people do not admit their prejudices openly. 'On Fashion' was too direct maybe.

I mainly mind nudity with the intention to show off. I don't care how beautiful the body is, the idea of advertising one's body appalls me ...

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I apologize for all this and I have never the intent to direct at you and I will withdraw my abuse if it has hurt you. I want to treasure your personal values and sense of decorum. This is my personal opinion. I like nudity for its sheer beauty and I have not judged it promiscuously and perversely.

Your sense of nudity maybe different than mine and I do not say mine is better since to claim my view is better is sheer stupidity. I like the beauty of nudity par excellence

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Originally Posted by Varenne Rodin

I adore your commentaries, Vonny.

I think people are assuming that those of us opposed to public nudity have a hatred for ugly or fat people. That simply isn't true, though I do appreciate people who wash their hair more than people who don't. It's slobs I don't care for. If I can do the work I do, and juggle several responsibilities, and still look after my personal care and fitness, it seems reasonable to think that other people can and should if they are planning to go about nude in public.

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Thanks Varenne! After I write here I usually worry some. It's a strange, irrational fear I guess. I'll stick with this over time and see if I get over it. Sometimes I know my thinking is a bit distorted, so that adds to my self-consciousness - this happens especially when my mom is ill, like today.

I'm fortunate I suppose that I'm able to structure my life so that I'm not really subjected to people who don't wash their hair, and things like that. I wouldn't want to be around people who don't wash, or people who gorge on junk food and swill soda, or smokers. As I write this about smokers, I know there are smokers here and I don't want to offend them, only I can't be around smokers.

Being nude in public is another thing I hadn't thought much about before this thread. The disgusting man who drops his pants at the lake is the only person I've known in real life to do this.

I had the opportunity to swim nude in a warm pool at night with my girl friend, and it was really great. We did it secretively. It's a memory I like to relive. Swimming nude feels very good! We didn't do it to be exhibitionists, and no one was around to see. I couldn't imagine walking around nude in front of people, other than my friend. But there's nothing in the world like swimming nude, skinny dipping, in warm water, especially at night.

For goodness sake... I'm amazed that I have to make a point this simple and obvious here, but I'll do so anyway:

To make a comment on the aesthetic appeal of someone's naked body is ABSOLUTELY NOT the same thing as judging them as a person. There is no correlation whatsoever between beauty of appearance and generosity or warmth of spirit. To say that someone is unattractive physically (particularly if naked) is not to say that they are somehow an inferior person! God knows, I'm no looker - when people evaluate me, I hope they do so on the grounds of my better, more personal qualities.

Secondly, to all the people who are slamming those of us who dare to make a judgement on beauty: are you seriously saying that all naked bodies are beautiful? Are we that homogenous as a species? Surely we have the ability and intellect to make aesthetic judgements for ourselves, based on our subjective opinion? Not everyone finds the naked form beautiful - to be quite honest, in 99/100 cases I find the human body fairly off-putting; that might just be me, but don't be so sanctimonious as to say that it is wrong of me to hold an opinion on the subjectivity of aesthetic appeal! It is simultaneously naïve and sinister.

You explained that point very well, Lokasenna.

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Originally Posted by Lokasenna

God knows, I'm no looker - when people evaluate me, I hope they do so on the grounds of my better, more personal qualities.

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But, come on, you do have some distortions in your thinking, and other people have a right to their subjective opinions. You know, there is a whole person.

(I know I shouldn't do this. I know it, I know it.)

And really, I think there is a difference between insisting that a person is ugly, beautiful, or sexually alluring and speaking of what one prefers personally.

Orphan Pip... I'm not questioning the fact that we all make judgments based upon appearances. I'm a visual artist, after all... that's the name of the game. All I intended was to play the devil's advocate for a bit and point out that there is a certain inconsistency between the comments concerning Alexander's "shallowness" for daring to admit that he finds appearances important with regard to fashion and the blatantly judgmental comments concerning the appearances of the naked body.

For goodness sake... I'm amazed that I have to make a point this simple and obvious here, but I'll do so anyway:

To make a comment on the aesthetic appeal of someone's naked body is ABSOLUTELY NOT the same thing as judging them as a person. There is no correlation whatsoever between beauty of appearance and generosity or warmth of spirit. To say that someone is unattractive physically (particularly if naked) is not to say that they are somehow an inferior person! God knows, I'm no looker - when people evaluate me, I hope they do so on the grounds of my better, more personal qualities.

Lokasenna... perhaps judging a person based upon the appearance of their body is not the same as judging them as a whole person... but it certainly remains a form of judgment based upon appearances... which a good many here... in response to Alexander's "Fashion" thread portrayed as being horribly shallow and something they were above. I will point out that there were comments made in this thread that suggest assumptions being made based upon appearances. Between this thread and that on fashion there have been assumptions made as to the appearances of those who are overweight suggesting laziness etc... when as we all know obesity can be linked to diabetes and other diseases, heredity, even poverty... or the sort of poverty of the wealthiest nations. Many of the children I teach in the poor urban neighborhoods of the US are obese for the simple reason that healthier diets that include more fresh vegetables and fruit are more expensive than the pre-packaged foods, cheaper meats and dairy products. Physical Education (like art and music) is often one of the first thing slashed when the budget needs to be trimmed, and many of the parents lack the education to recognize that it isn't the greatest thing for a child to sit in front of the computer or the TV all day. Off course, in many cases it isn't safe for them to go outside either. I spent hours everyday as a child wandering through the forest behind our home, picking blackberries, hunting for snakes and tadpoles... I played ball with other kids in the neighborhood nearly everyday... but there was never the fear of gangs, drive-by shootings, prostitutes, drug dealers, crack-heads, and the all the rest of that which confronts the kids in urban America.

Again... I was playing something of the devil's advocate in my comment because I fully realize that we all make judgments and assumptions based upon appearances... it is the very name of the game for me as an artist. We should even admit that while personality, intelligence, and other abilities and personal traits may ultimately be more important when it comes to our overall opinion of another individual we are not likely to become attracted sexually to a person that we find unattractive or ugly.

I had the fortune of Seeing the David live, and it blew my mind. For when it comes to the male body I look upon it undhindered by lust, and in it I find something far more delicate and beautiful than that of the female body. I don't know why, but I do.

Alex... you are seriously in need of therapy.:biggrin5:

Seriously... the issue of public nudity is quite relevant when it comes to the visual arts. Vonny spoke of "the disgusting "art" that appears on the forum" and while I agree that some art can be challenging... disturbing... even "disgusting" the question always comes down to who is making these judgments. What is "beautiful" to one person can be "disgusting" to another... especially, it seems, when it comes to nudity in art... at least in the US.

There is a well-known essay by Mark Twain concerning Titian's famous Venus d'Urbino:

You enter [the Uffizi] and proceed to that most-visited little gallery that exists in the world --the Tribune-- and there, against the wall, without obstructing rap or leaf, you may look your fill upon the foulest, the vilest, the obscenest picture the world possesses -- Titian's Venus. It isn't that she is naked and stretched out on a bed --no, it is the attitude of one of her arms and hand. If I ventured to describe that attitude there would be a fine howl --but there the Venus lies for anybody to gloat over that wants to --and there she has a right to lie, for she is a work of art, and art has its privileges. I saw a young girl stealing furtive glances at her; I saw young men gazing long and absorbedly at her, I saw aged infirm men hang upon her charms with a pathetic interest. How I should like to describe her --just to see what a holy indignation I could stir up in the world...yet the world is willing to let its sons and its daughters and itself look at Titian's beast, but won't stand a description of it in words....There are pictures of nude women which suggest no impure thought -- I am well aware of that. I am not railing at such. What I am trying to emphasize is the fact that Titian's Venus is very far from being one of that sort. Without any question it was painted for a bagnio and it was probably refused because it was a trifle too strong. In truth, it is a trifle too strong for any place but a public art gallery.

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6194/...5ec27e9b_b.jpg

It would seem that such Puritanism still remains a part of American culture... in spite of the growth of pornography. Indeed... considering figures such as Jerry Falwell, it seems that this Puritanism is something of a bizarre for of hypocrisy in which certain "holier-than-thou" individuals would dictate sexual morals to others which they feel free to dispense with themselves. The Attorney General, John Ashcroft, famously covered the figure of Justice (how sybolic:patriot:) with blue curtains rather than allow himself to be photographed before a Neo-Classical figure with a bared breast. As Varene stated earlier, extreme violence in films is afforded less censorship that nudity. Someone noted a while back that you can blow up a breast in the movies with impunity, but don't even think about showing someone caressing a breast without facing that possible NC-17 rating. Around the time of Ashcroft's great breast cover-up there were discussions about the possibility of Michelangelo's David traveling to the US for exhibition at the National Gallery. The discussions never amounted to anything... no doubt in part owing to Ashcroft's public statement that if the David did enter the US it would need to be appropriately fitted with a fig leaf or loin cloth.

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Originally Posted by Vonny

I had the opportunity to swim nude in a warm pool at night with my girl friend, and it was really great. We did it secretively. It's a memory I like to relive. Swimming nude feels very good! We didn't do it to be exhibitionists, and no one was around to see. I couldn't imagine walking around nude in front of people, other than my friend. But there's nothing in the world like swimming nude, skinny dipping, in warm water, especially at night.

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Swimming naked feels very good! No…...it feels fantastic! I love swimming naked. I have a group of female friends who love hiking and swimming naked. After a quite intense hiking and sweating what a joy is to take clothing off and dive into a warm lake naked. All of us love it. I haven’t done it for a couple of years and I miss it.

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Originally Posted by Vonny View Post

I had the opportunity to swim nude in a warm pool at night with my girl friend, and it was really great. We did it secretively. It's a memory I like to relive. Swimming nude feels very good! We didn't do it to be exhibitionists, and no one was around to see. I couldn't imagine walking around nude in front of people, other than my friend. But there's nothing in the world like swimming nude, skinny dipping, in warm water, especially at night.

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Swimming naked feels very good! No…...it feels fantastic! I love swimming naked. I have a group of female friends who love hiking and swimming naked. After a quite intense hiking and sweating what a joy is to take clothing off and dive into a warm lake naked. All of us love it. I haven’t done it for a couple of years and I miss it.

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Another naked swimmer! I've never swam naked, well as I've not really had the opportunity, but it does sound pretty good. I'm missing out on something here.

A teacher friend of mine once told me that he had took a group of boys mountain biking during the summer, as he regularly does, and that he also sometimes takes them skinny dipping in a lake.

"Jesus" I told him "you can't do that, you'll get arrested".

"Oh, we're not hurting anything" he says, "all these silly PC rules..."

:lol::lol: Quality.

We're talking as though there's a universal standard of beauty. Is there seriously no one here who would find themselves attracted to a round, buxom woman or a grizzled and "experienced" male?

Maybe it's just my admiration clouding my senses, but I would be his concubine:
http://www.justpressplay.net/images/...alan-moore.jpg

And look! Look!:

http://www.mimifroufrou.com/scenteds...ah-chicago.jpg

Lol I realised most of the ones who comment here are guys XD In Asia I don't see a lot of public nudity. I'm sure guys would want to have a lot more of them but honestly my friend who moved to Cambridge says that she can see girls with half of their asses exposed so I really feel that you guys who live in Western countries already have a lot of share of public nudity, seriously :P How much more nude do you want? XD

Sometimes as a female I dress very skimpily and some people do that here too but I've never really seen people who dress that nudely around here. People could see my cleavage yesterday but I'm sure how I dressed is not even close to how some people dress.

Since people are mostly still conservative, I think people here should be less repressed and dress more sexily and openly :P but then I'd get a lot of rivals xP I suppose in here public nudity is not enough but it's totally alright for the girls :P Let's leave the guys to their own imaginations XD

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Originally Posted by JuniperWoolf

We're talking as though there's a universal standard of beauty. Is there seriously no one here who would find themselves attracted to a round, buxom woman or a grizzled and "experienced" male?

Maybe it's just my admiration clouding my senses, but I would be his concubine:
http://www.justpressplay.net/images/...alan-moore.jpg

And look! Look!:

http://www.mimifroufrou.com/scenteds...ah-chicago.jpg

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LOL haha I totally won't be attracted to a grizzled and experienced male. Even though he's experienced, I'd prefer being with a young guy who's not very experienced. Charm is what matters to me (so the guy doesn't have to be so hot) and that grizzled man doesn't have that charm :P

I am not attracted to young himbos. So I would be totally attracted to a been there done that so what can I discover next kind of guy.

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Originally Posted by stlukesguild

Seriously... the issue of public nudity is quite relevant when it comes to the visual arts. Vonny spoke of "the disgusting "art" that appears on the forum" and while I agree that some art can be challenging... disturbing... even "disgusting" the question always comes down to who is making these judgments. What is "beautiful" to one person can be "disgusting" to another... especially, it seems, when it comes to nudity in art... at least in the US.

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The "art" that I call disgusting would be considered disgusting by any normal person. Even you are aware when you put up something that is really offensive to many people, and even to yourself.

I don't understand why many people get a charge out of being offensive to other people. So much of what people do, the way they dress and so forth, is simply for the purpose of being offensive. This is something I don't understand.

I don't mind looking at Titian's Venus. My problem that I have, which may be my own personal problem, is that often there is so much at once that it overwhelms my circuits somehow.

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Originally Posted by stlukesguild

It would seem that such Puritanism still remains a part of American culture... in spite of the growth of pornography. Indeed... considering figures such as Jerry Falwell, it seems that this Puritanism is something of a bizarre for of hypocrisy in which certain "holier-than-thou" individuals would dictate sexual morals to others which they feel free to dispense with themselves. The Attorney General, John Ashcroft, famously covered the figure of Justice (how sybolic:patriot:) with blue curtains rather than allow himself to be photographed before a Neo-Classical figure with a bared breast. As Varene stated earlier, extreme violence in films is afforded less censorship that nudity. Someone noted a while back that you can blow up a breast in the movies with impunity, but don't even think about showing someone caressing a breast without facing that possible NC-17 rating. Around the time of Ashcroft's great breast cover-up there were discussions about the possibility of Michelangelo's David traveling to the US for exhibition at the National Gallery. The discussions never amounted to anything... no doubt in part owing to Ashcroft's public statement that if the David did enter the US it would need to be appropriately fitted with a fig leaf or loin cloth.

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I bolded that top sentence. Why is it that "Puritans" aren't supposed to be in America? Why are we supposed to have all porn and no Puritans? To me the politics (which are totally disgusting to me) is a separate issue. But why are the Mennonites, Hutterites and Amish to be eliminated?

I HATE porn. Do I have a right to hate porn? It's fine with me if you LOVE porn. I don't care at all what you do in your bedroom. In fact, I have no wish to change anything you do on the forum. I want you to do what you want and I want to do what I want. I do learn a lot from you. In fact, all of this debate has been educational. But in my daily life there is no porn. I don't know why I hate porn so much, but it goes against the fiber of my being. I'm very grateful that where I live there are no strip clubs or prostitutes or anything like that.

I don't have a problem with nudity or sex in movies, as long as it is nice and isn't deviant. Violence, abuse, and degradation goes against the fiber of my being.

I'm also disgusted by all forms of self-mutilation - tattoos, piercings. I don't want to stop people from doing it, but it disturbs me and I don't like to see it if I can avoid it. If I come here and see this trash, I have my favorite pictures on a blog on another tab and I just click there to wipe it out of my mind.

But I feel that I have as much a right to hate this stuff as you do to love it.

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Originally Posted by Neely

Another naked swimmer! I've never swam naked, well as I've not really had the opportunity, but it does sound pretty good. I'm missing out on something here.

A teacher friend of mine once told me that he had took a group of boys mountain biking during the summer, as he regularly does, and that he also sometimes takes them skinny dipping in a lake.

"Jesus" I told him "you can't do that, you'll get arrested".

"Oh, we're not hurting anything" he says, "all these silly PC rules..."

:lol::lol: Quality.

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Neely, you are missing out! I can't believe you've never done this. Until I tried it I would have thought that it wasn't much different than swimming the usual way, but it really is different and wonderful, and very free.

Taking those kids to skinny dip is great! Kids shouldn't be taught to be ashamed of their bodies and not be allowed to have fun.

Actually, I've done it a few times. When my boss goes out of town (sure hope no one who knows me is reading this) I "house sit" for him, and he has an indoor pool that is very nice. The water doesn't need to be warm like a bathtub, but just not cold. Now that I'm thinking of it, these kind of sensory experiences, as memories, are great meditations during times of stress. When I'm stressed in life, I just switch my attention to one of these memories and it is just like I'm there. Being in water is absolutely one of my favorite things.

It's funny though that cold water is the worst form of torture for me.


Edit: As I look that over, what I wrote above - that sounds like one heck of a rant - and I didn't intend it to come out that way! I'm not upset :)