When is it trolling?

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06-10-2011, 04:25 PM
togre

When trying to define "troll" and "trolling" I can't help but paraphrase what a Supreme Court Justice said with regard to pornography--"I cannot define it, but I know it when I see it."

There is an element of discretion in identifying and responding to a troll. But that doesn't make it subjective--A troll is a troll.

With regards to this forum, without resorting to hyperbole, I have found the moderating on this site very consistent and of a high quality.
06-10-2011, 07:45 PM
MarkBastable

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Atheist

That would never happen here. In my view the moderation and admin here are the all-round best management team on the entire internet.

Which is why I find it hard to figure that the central question remains unanswered.

Quote:

Originally Posted by G L Wilson

God was once considered a good manager, it seems that you are in need of a substitute. Instead of looking for the next messiah, The Atheist, why don't you look to yourself to see if you are not a troll?

Now, looking at the first post and the response that it apparently provoked, you have to say that that second post - man, that's grade-A mainlined pure chem trolling.
06-10-2011, 10:28 PM
YesNo

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarkBastable

Now, looking at the first post and the response that it apparently provoked, you have to say that that second post - man, that's grade-A mainlined pure chem trolling.

Yes. I think you're right! It doesn't get finer than that. :)
06-11-2011, 12:23 PM
Vonny

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarkBastable

I agree with all that, except, perhaps, that we might disagree over the definition of 'troll'. I think mine is narrower than yours - for instance, I would say that trolling was a deliberate and active attempt by one person to provoke, irritate and generally cause discord. The reactive group activity you're talking about I guess I'd call bullying - which isn't pleasant either.

I don't think the person in question is a troll, whatever a troll is.

I called him "mean-spirited", and then mentioned a couple of facts of my life history.

He replied, "When you were a child you did not think as a child." (That post has been removed now.)

So I knew this was a thinking and feeling person.

In another instance, when I gave a more detailed account of my life (including details of a horrific surgery I underwent) I was told by someone who isn't supposed to be a troll, that I'm "naive," which was unsettling to me when I feel that I've lived several lifetimes.
06-11-2011, 06:23 PM
G L Wilson

Musicology is the man in question, is he not? I have only run across one of his posts and he seemed quite mad to me but certainly no troll.
06-11-2011, 06:43 PM
Mutatis-Mutandis

Well, Musicology has been banned, so I guess he was doing something to break the rules. :nod:
06-11-2011, 07:10 PM
tailor STATELY

The trolling language seems fine by me.

What's wrong with PM'ing an admin if you feel that your particular issue hasn't been addressed ? I have, and it works. I wasn't too happy about the advice given, but it was just and gave closure to my issue.

Ta ! (short for tarradiddle),
tailor STATELY
06-11-2011, 07:30 PM
G L Wilson

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mutatis-Mutandi

Well, Musicology has been banned, so I guess he was doing something to break the rules. :nod:

For what reason was he banned? Did he inject venom in the veins of some? Well, I have been bitten by a snake, it nearly killed me but in the end it did me no harm. Why must we be objective when there is no such thing as objectivity? It makes no sense to me but it must make sense to some who imagine that that which does not exist is perfect and therefore they are perfect, unhuman and without blemish. The name troll convicts the innocent until what is left is a society of stool pigeons and worms. If I must go on my belly to an idiot, I would rather do it on my own terms. There is no honour in repression as there is no honour in exile, only shame.
06-11-2011, 08:02 PM
Vonny

Quote:

Originally Posted by G L Wilson

For what reason was he banned? Did he inject venom in the veins of some? Well, I have been bitten by a snake, it nearly killed me but in the end it did me no harm. Why must we be objective when there is no such thing as objectivity? It makes no sense to me but it must make sense to some who imagine that that which does not exist is perfect and therefore they are perfect, unhuman and without blemish. The name troll convicts the innocent until what is left is a society of stool pigeons and worms. If I must go on my belly to an idiot, I would rather do it on my own terms. There is no honour in repression as there is no honour in exile, only shame.

This is well said. I thought at first he was very angry, until someone who knew him better said that he found his outbursts "refreshing." Then I realized it was just his style and eccentricity, and that I had misunderstood him.

I find also that the cruelest and most insensitive of remarks, the kind that tend to "hit below the belt", are usually said in a polite manner.
06-11-2011, 08:22 PM
Delta40

Perhaps we need Lit-Net Psychiatric Forum to cater for a broader audience?
06-11-2011, 09:30 PM
Calidore

I tend to agree that he wasn't a troll, in that his entire purpose wasn't to provoke, nor do I think anyone wanted him banned because of his, shall we say, alternative viewpoints. The problem was probably a combination of the double standard he held himself and his "opponents" to regarding evidence of their respective opinions, and especially the belligerence and abuse he subjected everyone to when they pointed this double standard out. Vigorously arguing fairly is one thing; the way he did it was quite another.

If you look at his "Popular Music" thread, you'll see an entirely different Musicology, one which I wish he would have let out more often.
06-11-2011, 10:45 PM
Vonny

Quote:

Originally Posted by Delta40

Perhaps we need Lit-Net Psychiatric Forum to cater for a broader audience?

:lol: We need a cuckoo's nest sub-forum. Maybe we can get Jack Nicholson on board!
06-11-2011, 10:57 PM
G L Wilson

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calidore

I tend to agree that he wasn't a troll, in that his entire purpose wasn't to provoke, nor do I think anyone wanted him banned because of his, shall we say, alternative viewpoints. The problem was probably a combination of the double standard he held himself and his "opponents" to regarding evidence of their respective opinions, and especially the belligerence and abuse he subjected everyone to when they pointed this double standard out. Vigorously arguing fairly is one thing; the way he did it was quite another.

If you look at his "Popular Music" thread, you'll see an entirely different Musicology, one which I wish he would have let out more often.

Then you think that he was just plain mean and deserved all he got? Yes. I am more careful around religious people than I used to be, they seem pretty witless to me but I must always remember that they are human beings and are beautiful in their own right. It is not always possible, but then human beings are not always rational. Weakness and immaturity are strong in me. When reason and love fail me, I am pretty much a berserker. But I will never make an excuse for myself, a man is responsible for his passions like the existentialists thought. The world is cruel and has no forgiveness for the weak but all the time in the world for the meek. God, they sicken me. God hates a coward but he hates a fool even more. If I was to pray for anything, it would be for the strength to overcome my foes. But glory and honour are dirty words nowadays, and what we have instead is the meek and their piles of vomit stinking to heaven, and the strong in retreat.
06-11-2011, 11:05 PM
Vonny

Quote:

Originally Posted by G L Wilson

Then you think that he was just plain mean and deserved all he got? Yes. I am more careful around religious people than I used to be, they seem pretty witless to me but I must always remember that they are human beings and are beautiful in their own right. It is not always possible, but then human beings are not always rational. Weakness and immaturity are strong in me. When reason and love fail me, I am pretty much a berserker. But I will never make an excuse for myself, a man is responsible for his passions like the existentialists thought. The world is cruel and has no forgiveness for the weak but all the time in the world for the meek. God, they sicken me. God hates a coward but he hates a fool even more. If I was to pray for anything, it would be for the strength to overcome my foes. But glory and honour are dirty words nowadays, and what we have instead is the meek and their piles of vomit stinking to heaven, and the strong in retreat.

:lol: Oh my god, I know better use restraint and wait until this glass of wine wears off before I post here again!
06-12-2011, 12:27 AM
Delta40

I find these posts so long and tiresome to read but I am struck by the word trolling. Didn't they live under bridges and snatch innocent little kiddies as they crossed? Is there a correlation here at all?
06-12-2011, 02:12 AM
Mutatis-Mutandis

As to why Musicology was banned, I don't know. Only the mods do, and I doubt they will tell us, as it's between them and Musicology. If I were to guess, it was probably because he was warned several times to stop his provocative behavior (he also started making threads of a political nature, all of which were locked, yet he made several more), and ignored it, and, just from observing his manner, he probably smarted off to the mods themselves.

It isn't easy to get banned from these forums. I'm sure the only person to blame for Musicology's ban is Musicology.
06-12-2011, 06:48 AM
Scheherazade

The following definition posted in OP sums it up nicely enough:

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Atheist

Wikipedia states: In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking readers into an emotional response or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.

As it is often the case, this definition is open to interpretation; however, as the Forum moderators, we are given licence to exercise our judgement to determine what constitutes trolling under different circumstances.

I would like to emphasise that this Forum is not a democracy; we are all the guests of the Admin who offers this service free of charge and, at the time of registration, we all readily agree to follow the rules imposed by him.

I would also like to add that the reasons behind anyone's ban or warnings they might receive is not open to public discussion as this is a private issue between that person and the moderators.

Please rest assured that it is not a decision we take lightly and is often a result of our repeated reminders and warnings fallen on deaf ears. We always listen to what everyone has to say on issues and reply to the best of our abilities; however, one thing we will not compromise is the Forum rules.

Now that everyone had a chance to air their views on many issues, I will now close this thread.

If you have any further any questions, please feel free to PM me.

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