July '10 Reading: Walden by Thoreau

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Originally Posted by L.M. The Third

I loved "Solitude", but I've got to confess that I was a little bit disappointed in "Sounds". Reading by a river in the Yukon, listening to water rushing over rocks, the occasional splash of fish, or the chatter of a squirrel, I was expecting something to parallel and enhance the experience. Yes, there were beautiful parts of the chapter, but I think I need some help appreciating the long exposition on the railroad. At one point he seems to be mourning all the labor, without a higher cause, put into the railroad, and the next he is praising the industry of the workers, etc.

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You bring up a really good point L.M. -- he does both because, I think, he feels both. Walden, the book, is a document of an experiment. And for all the hype that he lives far out in the woods, he really doesn't. Nor does he claim to. He notes many times that the railroad is just on the opposite edge of the pond. And that he "wears a trail to town" in his two year living in his "house". -- He only refers to his residence there as "cabin" once, all other times he refers to it as a "house" which I feel is significant.

Anyway, I got distracted there. Thoreau does appreciate the train and the great human endeavor that it stands for. Sometimes. Other times, he wonders if all that beautiful human effort and energy couldn't be put to better purposes than transporting goods and services -- that maybe if we put such effort into living a more beautiful life, even if only for a couple of years, we the human condition would grow.

The train in Walden is a lot like the Internet of today. Sometimes we love it. Sometimes we hate it. But the truth of the matter is that we are conflicted about it. It's a guilty pleasure, a necessary evil, and a beautiful transport of fellowship and communication all at once. And I think that Thoreau is showing you not his final thoughts about technology and the wild, but the natural paths of his thinking about such things.

"Solitude" is a beautiful chapter too, by the way. I think tomorrow I'll quote some of my favorite lines.

My personal favorite chapter is "The Bean Field". I adore the wild/agricultural/mock-heroic flavor of the whole chapter. And the wonderful experimentation of it.

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Originally Posted by The Comedian

You bring up a really good point L.M. -- he does both because, I think, he feels both. Walden, the book, is a document of an experiment. And for all the hype that he lives far out in the woods, he really doesn't. Nor does he claim to. He notes many times that the railroad is just on the opposite edge of the pond. And that he "wears a trail to town" in his two year living in his "house". -- He only refers to his residence there as "cabin" once, all other times he refers to it as a "house" which I feel is significant.

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That is a good point. He really is not out roughing it in the wilderness, though he does live self-sufficiently, he also is still quite close to idealization. And while in the chapter "Solitude" he speaks of nature being his best company, and of how far away his nearest neighbors are, and glorifies the idea of being isolate from society and paints this rather romantic picture of life alone with nature.

I just started reading the chapter "Visitors" which seems to suggest that he did in fact quite frequently have people over for company, though who all these people are that would just pop up at his cabin I don't know, but it does seem as if in fact he did quite frequently have a good deal of human contact in spite of his praises of the pond and the owls being such great companions to him.

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Originally Posted by Dark Muse

That is a good point. He really is not out roughing it in the wilderness, though he does live self-sufficiently, he also is still quite close to idealization. And while in the chapter "Solitude" he speaks of nature being his best company, and of how far away his nearest neighbors are, and glorifies the idea of being isolate from society and paints this rather romantic picture of life alone with nature.

I just started reading the chapter "Visitors" which seems to suggest that he did in fact quite frequently have people over for company, though who all these people are that would just pop up at his cabin I don't know, but it does seem as if in fact he did quite frequently have a good deal of human contact in spite of his praises of the pond and the owls being such great companions to him.

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Exactly. He does live in "solitude" when compared to many of his townsmen and women, but he doesn't live alone. In fact, he enjoys company. But what he has at Walden, he learns, is freedom. I believe in "Solitude" he says something a long the lines of "there was a time when I thought that it was impossible to live away from human society and to still live a human life". (I'm going off of memory with that "quotation" so it may be off a bit). But we see this idea throughout the entire book: thoreau seeks to find the best balance, or idealization, as you say, of human society and natural harmony.

I just finished reading the chapter "Visitors" and there was one thing of which I was not entirely certain about.

First he talks all about the woodcutter who would visit with him and than later on he mentioned a half-wit that he encountered, and I could not quite till if he genuinely admired what he viewed as their natural innocence, and their simple way of seeing things, how they were uncorrupted by society and civilization, or if he was patronizing them for their lack of intellectual thought.

I just finished "The Bean Field" and agree it is a great chapter, I really enjoyed it, but is it just me or does Thoreau seem to be a bit obsessed with woodchucks? I think a person could start a drinking game based on how many times he mentioned the word woodchuck.

"Visitors" has been my favorite chapter yet. And I'm getting to really appreciate Thoreau's humor and honesty even when he may be slightly contradictory.

DM, I didn't gather that he feels patronizing towards these characters. Although, I did gather that they are something of a puzzle to him, because, of course, while he believes in the "simple life", development of the intellect is very important to him.

By the way, how do you think his thoughts in "The Bean Field" on labor and agriculture tie into what he expressed earlier? I found it reassuring. I took from it that his problem is with the labor and agriculture which pinches the mind and potential, and which becomes all absorbing. He could work hard on his land, yet it did not own him and bind his life.

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Originally Posted by L.M. The Third

By the way, how do you think his thoughts in "The Bean Field" on labor and agriculture tie into what he expressed earlier? I found it reassuring. I took from it that his problem is with the labor and agriculture which pinches the mind and potential, and which becomes all absorbing. He could work hard on his land, yet it did not own him and bind his life.

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I really enjoyed reading about his experiences with the Bean Field and in many ways I think that it serves to support the thoughts he expressed within Economy. It was always my feeling that his issue with labor and work was in the more industrial and commercialized way. I do not think that he was just against any form of physical labor.

In the Bean Field he displays how he works upon the land, but how the work is not all consuming to him, it does not distract from his leisure time, he works to support himself thus in his labor he is free and independent, he is working for himself.

During his thoughts on his working on his own little farm he criticizes commercialized agriculture and he works the land according to when and how he wants to do it, as he illustrates how the professional farmers try to instruct him on who to plant, when to hoe, and so forth, but he works at his own pace in the way that best suits him.

He is unwilling to become a slave to the work and let the work define who he is.

That's the impression I gained too, Dark Muse. It wouldn't make sense for someone like Thoreau, who wants to return to a natural life, to shun physical labor. But having, for example, a commercial farm, can control one's time, life, and mental state. It could cramp the mind into worries about the land and what it will yield.
Thoreau works, yet he also lets nature take its course, without fretting.

I just finished "The Village" and I loved that chapter. I thought it was quite amusing the way in which he would walk into the village and study the people there the same way in which he would watch the animals in the woods around his place. And I loved the descriptions of traveling the woods in the darkness.

There is one thing of which I have been curious about. Throughout the book Thoreau alludes heavily to Homer, and The Odyssey, in addition to other classical Greek works. But it seems Homer most specifically comes up several times during the reading, and though in "Reading" he does talk about his reverence for Classical Greek literature, I was wondering just what particular significance does Homer have in relation to his own experiment and philosophies? I cannot quite draw a connection between them.

I broke down and picked up the audio book for this. I've not had any time to read, but I figure this way I can at least give it a shot ;) Am I going to miss much by listening instead of reading?

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Originally Posted by mkhockenberry

I broke down and picked up the audio book for this. I've not had any time to read, but I figure this way I can at least give it a shot ;) Am I going to miss much by listening instead of reading?

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No problem -- I'd love to have you part of the conversation.

I just wanted to post a few things from the book that I enjoy:

Here's one from "The Bean Field"

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By avarice and selfishness, and a grovelling habit, from which none of us is free, of regarding the soil as property, or the means of acquiring property chiefly, the landscape is deformed, husbandry is degraded with us, and the farmer lives the meanest of lives.

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I love how Thoreau includes himself in this indictment -- "none of us is free" -- and how he hopes to rekindle the ancient idea of "husbandry" to both the land, but the landscape -- in the 1840s, that he thinks this ecologically is remarkable.

Or his mock-heroic hoeing of beans. .

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Consider the intimate and curious acquaintance one makes with various kinds of weeds -- it will bear some iteration in the account, for there was so little iteration in the labor, -- disturbing their delicate organizations so ruthlessly, and making such invidious distinctions with his hoe, leveling whole ranks of one species, and sedulously cultivating another. . . .

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that's Roman wormwood. . . .

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http://www.herbaluna.com/images/artemesia.jpg

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that's pigweed. . . .

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http://www.bluestemprairie.com/.a/6a...19c2970c-800wi

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that's sorrel. . . .

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http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1155/...a902768b6c.jpg

And, finally, the last paragraph of the bean-field is prose at its finest. .

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We are wont to forget that the sun looks on our cultivated fields and on the prairies and forests without distinction. They all reflect and absorb his rays alike, and the former make but a small picture which he beholds in his daily course. In his view the earth is all equally cultivated like a garden. There fore we should receive the benefit of his light and heat with a corresponding trust and magnanimity. . .these beans have results which are not harvested by me. Do they not grow for woodchucks partly?

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In this final passage I love how he sees the natural world not as wild, but as a garden -- something whose growth has intention and meaning and value. And, despite the obvious (mock) bravado of his earlier passages, I find Thoreau particularly humble in the book. His lesson of the bean field is as simple as it is timeless and spiritual: that we should treat everything with "a corresponding trust and magnanimity" and a humble mystery that his beans have purposes beyond his intentions.

And yes, DM, he does have thing against woodchucks. :lol: But he does give them some credit! :lol:

I have been reading the book online, and originally I was reading it via Project Gutenberg when all of the sudden when I tried to open it up the file could no longer be found so I had to find another online version of the text and I happened upon this version that throughout includes photographs and illustrations of the places, people, wildlife and so forth of which Thoreau speaks of, including a few photos of Walden Pond.

For anyone who is interested here is a link:

http://thoreau.eserver.org/walden00.html#toc

I'm going to start listening tonight. Given that it is 10 hours+ for an audio book, I'm not sure I'm really saving any time, I think I'm just making it easier to multitask:D

I absolutely loved the chapter Walden Pond. I myself have always been partial to lakes and I love the idea of a mountain lake. I thought the way in which he described the colors of the water was spectacular as well as such an accurate depiction of the water. There was so beautiful prose work and descriptions of the water and the wildlife around the water.

I loved the way he talked about the different types of fish that lived in the lake, I find fish to be strangely fascinating creatures and love to watch them, and the descriptions of the ripples across the water caused by the insects.

He captured everything so pristinely and so wonderful with such vivid detail.

Just started Walden the other day, and it's already the end of the month. Where has the time gone? But I must say, it's a good book so far!

I know it's already a new month, but the discussion seemed to wane a lot. Is the discussion over?

FINALLY finished it. Took a while, eh? I had to read it veeeeery slooooowly, and now I have to read it again. I loved it.

I thought Walden was so inspiring..Thoreau speaks of such a gentle time..He had no need for things to be happy.