Hmm. I really don't have an interest in the vote, but would enjoy participating. Do you generally pick a certain translation and try to all get that? Just want to make sure I have plenty of time to get the text.
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Hmm. I really don't have an interest in the vote, but would enjoy participating. Do you generally pick a certain translation and try to all get that? Just want to make sure I have plenty of time to get the text.
I think Verlaine won this one, unless others want to join in and vote
Verlaine? Fine with me. I have three different volumes I can pull from.
Waiting on me? or does it not even matter?
Either way:
1. T. S. Eliot Four Quartets
2. Baudelaire
3. Shi Jing
4. Hölderlin
5. Mallarme
So far I have:
Elizabeth Bishop 5 4 = 9
Marianne Moore 4 = 4
Gertrude Stein
Rimbaud 5 2 2 = 9
Shelly
Paul Verlaine 5 4 5 4 5 = 23
Baudelaire 1 3 1 4 = 9
Medbh McGuckian
Fernando Pessoa 3 2 3 2 3 = 13
Wallace Stevens
Gerard de Nerval 3 4 3 = 10
Stephen Mallarme' 4 5 1 2 1 = 11
Chinese Book of Songs (Shi Jing)2 3 3 = 8
T. S. Eliot Four Quartets 4 1 3 2 5 = 10
Georg Trakl 1 1 1 = 3
Friederich Holderlin 5 5 4 2 = 16
Verlaine is winning by at least two strong votes. Is that the end of voting?
It appears that all who have participated in this discussion as of now have voted. It would seem that Verlaine is our man. The goal now, presumably, is to select a text by Verlaine... or does everyone already have such? As I noted earlier, I have three different collections/translations and would be open to employing any of them or all of them.
So...
1. What text are we using?
2. When should we begin posting poems and beginning the discussion?
I'm fine with any common volume, as I will grab it from the library along with a French copy.
We should agree on a translation, correct?
I know nothing of Verlaine, so perhaps someone could recommend a volume?
I don't either. I will need some guidence as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by mayneverhave
I have the Selected Poems by C.F. MacIntyre, the Oxford World Classic's edition translated by Martin Sorrell, and One Hundred and One Poems translated by Norman R. Shapiro. All three volumes have their strengths and weaknesses... as with any translation. The Oxford version seems to be currently the most highly thought of. The Shapiro volume is notable for brief introductions to each of Verlaine's books. I also have any number of poems translated by various other writers within anthologies of French poetry. I would make the suggestion that Verlaine's strongest works are from early in his career, from the volumes Poèmes saturniens, Fêtes galantes, La bonne chanson, Romances sans paroles, Sagesse, and Parallèlement.
I have no idea about which translations are best either, however If I may I suggest we steer away from the Oxford edition as they always print in such small writing that it is fastidious to read and bugs the hell out of me.
If I may I suggest we steer away from the Oxford edition as they always print in such small writing that it is fastidious to read and bugs the hell out of me.
Ummm... maybe its time to see the optometrist? Choosing a translation based upon the size of the font? From a quick glance I'll point out that the print size in all three translations appears pretty much the same size and standard for most books.
Ahh maybe it was just the Byron collection of the Oxford edition then
One of those Complete Works of Byron or Wordsworth or Shakespeare in one slim volume and microprint? Rather like trying to read some of the print included in CD booklets.:crazy:
I had a Byron including long works (Don Juan, Manfred, etc) in one volume. IT had if I remember 4 columns a page (an Iambic Pentameter line would take one column, or one and a half columns without needing to break lines), and went on and on.Quote:
Originally Posted by stlukesguild
My volume of Spenser is like that... although I think its two columns per page. It has the complete Fairie Queene, the Amoretti, Epithalimion, Muiopotmos, and all the minor poems... as well as a long introduction... all in a single volume. One the other hand... it is a rather nice leather-bound volume so I'll put up with having to wear the reading glasses.:lol:
Don't even get me started on my volume of Shakespeare which must be 12x18" or larger and nearly 4" thick and weighing in at ten pounds. You need a podium to even read it. I've been picking up some nice volumes of the separate plays whenever I get about to reading them simply to avoid this behemoth.:ack2:
Meh, to me, Hamilton's Faerie Queene is the only Faerie Queene. Though that isn't exactly the most convenient book to shlep around, it certainly is the best for reading though.Quote:
Originally Posted by stlukesguild
Have we decided on a volume?
I suggest St.lukesguild decides on the volume, seems to be the most experienced in regards to Verlaine.
I would probably go with Martin Sorrell's translation in the Oxford World's Classics edition which can be easily enough and inexpensively enough found... and features the original French on the facing page. I can always offer alternative translations.
If it's agreed upon - I'll have my copy in 20 minutes.Quote:
Originally Posted by stlukesguild
Hah, I'll need a little more time than that. I'll have to order it.Quote:
Originally Posted by JBI
Sounds good to me
Ordered. Just have to wait for the Amazon fairies to come now.
Alright, got my copy at the ready whenever someone wants to start.
I'll order mine tonight. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by stlukesguild
Is this the one we are ordering?
http://www.amazon.com/Selected-Poems...8983772&sr=1-1
That's the one I ordered.Quote:
Originally Posted by Virgil
Should be in my possession by the 19th.
I should have mine by tomorrow night
I suppose we should wait until everyone has their books, but will the discussion be in this thread or do you want to start another one, JBI?
Might as well be in this one. Just so you know guys, if anybody wishes to discuss any other number of the poets, I would more than welcome another thread.
I will post something on the original post to make this more accessible to newcomers.
Really a thread with the poet's name in the title should be started for future searches by people interested in his work.Quote:
Originally Posted by Quark
I would ask you then to PM a moderator to get them to change the name of the thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by Virgil
That's refreshing. I would be more than interested in still discussing Fernando Pessoa. I only picked him up a couple months ago and he could already very well be one of my favorite poets.Quote:
Originally Posted by JBI
Hey mine has come today, let's just start without everyone else.:devil:
I got mine :)
Might I suggest we start ?
Can for me. Why not pick out a shorter poem and then we can pm anybody who is still waiting for the book to be delivered if necessary?
Shoot, choose a poem.
Fantoches
Scaramouche and Pulchinella
Making evil plans together
Wave their arms, moon-silhouettes.
But the excellent Bolognese
Doctor's picking some of these
Special herbs among the grass.
His daughter with the pretty eyes,
In the arbour, on the sly's
Looking- semi-naked -for
Her handsome Spanish buccaneer...
Excerpt tr. Martin Sorrell
from the collection: Fêtes galante- Paul Verlaine
Fantoches
Scaramouche et Pulcinella,
Qu'un mauvais dessein rassembla,
Gesticulent noirs sous la lune,
Cependant l'excellent docteur Bolonais
Cueille avec lenteur des simples
Parmi l'herbe brune.
Lors sa fille, piquant minois,
Sous la charmille, en tapinois,
Se glisse demi-nue,
En quête de son beau pirate espagnol,
Dont un langoureux rossignol
Clame la détresse à tue-tête.
On the Fête galante:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F%C3%AAte_galante
Fête galante- a French term referring to some of the celebrated pursuits of the idle, rich aristocrats in the 18th century—from 1715 until the 1770s. After the death of Louis XIV in 1715, the aristocrats of the French court abandoned the grandeur of Versailles for the more intimate townhouses of Paris where, elegantly attired, they could play and flirt and put on scenes from the Italian commedia dell'arte. The term translates from French literally as "gallant party". It is closely related to, and may be considered a type of, fête champêtre.
The Fêtes galantes were most famously illuminated in the paintings of Antoine Watteau, who served as a major source of inspiration for Verlaine:
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4074/...a40028ef_b.jpg
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4117/...5b41616b_b.jpg
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4102/...94af5dfa53.jpg
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4095/...f172f3ef_b.jpg
The themes of Watteau and Verlaine's Fêtes galante were that of the elegant games and flirtations of youth... always with a tinge of melancholy... a recognition that these moments were ever fleeting.
Verlaine's poems in this collection were the most elegant and delicate... and yet the same poet could churn out the most vulgar and pornographic scribbles. This collection was especially spoken of when Verlaine was acclaimed as the most "musical" of poets. It's not surprising that his poems were a favorite of the French Impressionist composers:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgxaKTNw0hI
Good starting point, stlukes.Quote:
Originally Posted by stlukesguild
A little bit of context, though, for those with the Oxford editions: the editors cut out a pretty important (but longish) poem that precedes "Fantoches." The previous poem "En Patiant" can be read as a guide to the direction of the collection. It compares the poems progress with that of the seasons. The first two seasons we've already past by the time we get to Fantoches--which is just past midway in the collection. The first two seasons in "En Patiant" are spring and summer: spring is about flirting, summer passionate embrace. Then, moving into the second half of the poem we're warned about autumn:
(Translation taken from http://www.archive.org/stream/knaveo...ouoft_djvu.txt). This is the part of the collection that we're supposedly moving into, and, sure enough, the next poem, "Fantoches," shows a return to seemliness and elegance. The love in "Fantoches" is very practiced and artificial. She eludes her restrictive father in the arbor. He's a Spanish buccaneer. A nightingale sings his pain. This is certainly a step back from the more risque poems from the first half of the collection. Now, we've moved into something a little polished--almost trite. This is part of the progress forecasted by the previous poem, "En Patiant."Quote:
But autumn came to our relief,
Its light grown cold, its gusts grown rough,
Came to remind us, sharp and brief,
That we had wantoned long enough,
And led us quickly to recover
The elegance demanded of
Every quite irreproachable lover
And every seemly lady-love.
Whether we take the poem as a welcome respite from "wanton[ing]" or whether it's interpreted as something else is up for grabs. In any case, I think it's helpful to see the big picture that the collection creates as well as the effect of the individual works. I'll stop by a little later to post more.