What other people think

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Originally Posted by Apathy

Just because you believe you are right about something doesn't mean you are proud that you are right. Good Authors publish to make sure everybody knows what they think, not so they get showered in praise, which is why a lot of great books do not sell well because the opinions expressed are contradict to the majority. If you found out when the world would end, you would probably tell everyone but you wouldn't be proud of it. When a doctor diagnoses an incurable disease, and is correct, do you think he takes a lot of pride in his skills as a diagnotician?

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Ah, indeed; but you see, I think writing is a wholly separate matter entirely -- as it is an act of production, production of one's own; it's the actualisation of creativity, spunk, imagination, and thus requires particular consideration.

Just as God, Elohim, Yahweh, or whatever else one wishes to call the character, in Genesis looked upon his creations and at vary stages remarked that they were 'good', and after reviewing the completed Earth, the heavens, all the animals, and the first man, concluded that everything 'was very good', the creative writer, too, after examining his own finished work, must also conclude that 'it is good', otherwise he spends his time adding, taking away, sifting, correcting, and reforming until he can finally conclude as such.

Or, to adopt a further analogy, in the same way one doesn't tell a joke that one oneself doesn't find funny, the lyrical author, in his personal domain, doesn't dare publicise a work that is lacking in what he regards as metrical eurhythmy. -- Thence it follows that self-satisfaction is the key to all creative production; outside it, all is but chore, duty, or drudgery.


Alternatively,

If pride can only be negated by occasions of a purely detrimental or poignant variety, then can having it really be such a bad thing?

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"Just be yourself, because life's too short to be anybody else."

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A quote I rather like.

To be oneself all one has to do is unlearn or de-condition oneself.

Our minds are layered and our thoughts are simply modifications of our experiences of the past.

To live in the now is hard.

"I would rather be hated for who I am than loved for who I am not."
-Kurt Cobain-
"Wanting to be someone else is a waste of the person you are"
-Kurt Cobain-

These are Quotes that I adore and I think express my feelings towards this topic.:nod: Also, Nirvana is an amazing band.:banana:

[QUOTE=Apathy;787671]

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Originally Posted by Dark Muse

I cannot say I truly care about their positive thoughts about me, if I did than I would not post controversial or disagreeable things, and only go along with whatever anyone else says and agree with them.

I do not post just to try to gain approval or for the sake of seeking positive feedback, but more out of simple curiosity to see what others will say, but that is not quite the same as caring about what they say, at least not in a personal way. I am intellectually interested in the thoughts of others. But their thoughts good or bad will not have an affect upon me in my personal life.

If I am in a discussion I generally try not to ignore any comments, positive or negative.[/QUOTE=Dark Muse;787382]

Exactly.

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Of course these thoughts give something intellectual gratification, and in fact we must see how we are learning through others' comments. If we are intimidated by the idea that others may criticize and it is better to keep quiet we will never learn anything in life. For if we read what opinions others have about us we can correct ourselves. You cannot see your face, and you have to look at yourself in the mirror. Or others have to say about your face. In the same way until and unless others say something about you or point out your mistakes you can hardly learn. And this is how a poet can refine the art of versification. It is the liking of the reader a poem is good or bad. Today almost all novels are reader-centric or books are written mostly taking into consideration of the interests of the reader.

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Originally Posted by Apathy

"I would rather be hated for who I am than loved for who I am not."
-Kurt Cobain-
"Wanting to be someone else is a waste of the person you are"
-Kurt Cobain-

These are Quotes that I adore and I think express my feelings towards this topic.:nod: Also, Nirvana is an amazing band.:banana:

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These are really interesting quotes. I too like this idea. To be myself, and not what others want me to be or at times if others praise me for what I am not I feel really humiliated.

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Originally Posted by blazeofglory

Of course these thoughts give something intellectual gratification, and in fact we must see how we are learning through others' comments. If we are intimidated by the idea that others may criticize and it is better to keep quiet we will never learn anything in life. For if we read what opinions others have about us we can correct ourselves. You cannot see your face, and you have to look at yourself in the mirror. Or others have to say about your face. In the same way until and unless others say something about you or point out your mistakes you can hardly learn. And this is how a poet can refine the art of versification. It is the liking of the reader a poem is good or bad. Today almost all novels are reader-centric or books are written mostly taking into consideration of the interests of the reader.

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When you look in a mirror, it is completely different to listening what others say about your face.
If others think you are ugly, and you like what you see when you look in a mirror, then are you going to change to make them happy?
If you are happy withwho you are, you can still listen to what others think but what you think is the important part.
"Before I can live with others, I have to live with myself."
-Harper Lee(To Kill A Mockingbird)-

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Originally Posted by Apathy

When you look in a mirror, it is completely different to listening what others say about your face.
If others think you are ugly, and you like what you see when you look in a mirror, then are you going to change to make them happy?
If you are happy withwho you are, you can still listen to what others think but what you think is the important part.
"Before I can live with others, I have to live with myself."
-Harper Lee(To Kill A Mockingbird)-

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I agree and that is exactly how I want to live in life in point of fact, for I can be happy if I do what I think best not what others want me to do.

But we live in society and there fare family, friends, relatives,neighbors and the like. There are commonly accepted values, systems, codes of conducts, manners and mores in point of fact. I cannot ignore them and as ling as I am in society I will have to listen to what they say.

This is indeed against individualism and this is more manifest in a communist society. You may disagree with me.

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Originally Posted by blazeofglory

I agree and that is exactly how I want to live in life in point of fact, for I can be happy if I do what I think best not what others want me to do.

But we live in society and there fare family, friends, relatives,neighbors and the like. There are commonly accepted values, systems, codes of conducts, manners and mores in point of fact. I cannot ignore them and as ling as I am in society I will have to listen to what they say.

This is indeed against individualism and this is more manifest in a communist society. You may disagree with me.

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I agree, the absence of these norms is known as Anomie and I live my life with A&A= Apathy and Anomie

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When you look in a mirror, it is completely different to listening what others say about your face.
If others think you are ugly, and you like what you see when you look in a mirror, then are you going to change to make them happy?
If you are happy withwho you are, you can still listen to what others think but what you think is the important part.
"Before I can live with others, I have to live with myself."

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Apathy , when we say we care what the others do think of us, it doesn't mean we are going to change according to what they think. No one said that .Moreover , i don't think those people would respect you if you are going to change who u really are to please them .
The other might be my mirror and sometimes he can see what I can't see in myself .

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Originally Posted by caddy_caddy

The other might be my mirror and sometimes he can see what I can't see in myself .

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That's a good point, but I find that with a substantial and prolonged lack of friends, you attain an awesome awareness of self. I am not saying you should pursue this miserable state but if you are unfortunate enough, well...

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Originally Posted by Apathy

That's a good point, but I find that with a substantial and prolonged lack of friends, you attain an awesome awareness of self. I am not saying you should pursue this miserable state but if you are unfortunate enough, well...

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I applaud that you are brave enough to be who you are. So many people go through their whole lives putting on a facade with their work clothes, another with their friends and another with their loved ones. Only in those few frightful moments before sleep; or in dreams, do we face ourselves.

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Originally Posted by soundofmusic

I applaud that you are brave enough to be who you are. So many people go through their whole lives putting on a facade with their work clothes, another with their friends and another with their loved ones. Only in those few frightful moments before sleep; or in dreams, do we face ourselves.

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Really? I find it rather difficult to not be who I am, regardless of the clothes I put on or the friends whose company I keep. I'm a lot of things: working professional, father, friend, brother, drinker of beer, writer. In each one of these roles, I am slightly different, a part of me shines more brightly or is more useful than other parts, but nonetheless, I am always who I am.

I've long thought that asking someone who he or she really is is akin to asking a rainbow what it's true color is.

We We really could be happier if we do what we think best, or something that pops up within us but our actions, behaviors, works, ambitions, the directions we take are all guided by what others think

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Originally Posted by The Comedian

Really? I find it rather difficult to not be who I am, regardless of the clothes I put on or the friends whose company I keep. I'm a lot of things: working professional, father, friend, brother, drinker of beer, writer. In each one of these roles, I am slightly different, a part of me shines more brightly or is more useful than other parts, but nonetheless, I am always who I am.

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This. What people tend to ignore is the multifaceted identity. Certain of my qualities among some friends are not appreciated by, say, my parents, so those specific qualities tend to quashed in favor of others.

And, Apathy, for someone who claims not to care what other people think, you certainly do quote a lot of other people ;)

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Originally Posted by The Comedian

Really? I find it rather difficult to not be who I am, regardless of the clothes I put on or the friends whose company I keep. I'm a lot of things: working professional, father, friend, brother, drinker of beer, writer. In each one of these roles, I am slightly different, a part of me shines more brightly or is more useful than other parts, but nonetheless, I am always who I am.

I've long thought that asking someone who he or she really is is akin to asking a rainbow what it's true color is.

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Excellent point! Don't you find, though, that the father role is at polar opposites to the drinker of beer? I find that the mother in me is very prudish and the friend is a very liberal thinker!

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Originally Posted by glover7

This. What people tend to ignore is the multifaceted identity. Certain of my qualities among some friends are not appreciated by, say, my parents, so those specific qualities tend to quashed in favor of others

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Yes, I find that also; though I find that the unappreciated qualities can only be quashed so long. What was it Oscar Wilde and Ben Franklin and a number of other people have said: The only way to overcome a temptation is to indulge it...mind you:goof: I am not promoting the idea:angel:

Our sources of energies dry up if we become too much obsessed with the rest of the world opine about us and this too much concernedness about others breeds arrogance and we are supercilious thinking about others’ opinions and this mars our sense of individuality in point of fact

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Originally Posted by Dark Muse

I do not post just to try to gain approval or for the sake of seeking positive feedback, but more out of simple curiosity to see what others will say, but that is not quite the same as caring about what they say, at least not in a personal way. I am intellectually interested in the thoughts of others. But their thoughts good or bad will not have an affect upon me in my personal life.

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Note: emphasize added.

Now that you mentioned about 'personal life', I come to think I tend to apply such thought (gain people's approval) differently in different aspects. For example, work wise, of course my goal is to seek the outcome from my boss based on the objectives given to me. What s/he thought about my performance matters to me. But I won't seek her/his approval on things that don't relate to my professional performance. Understand that professional demands might changed (and perhaps have changed) me as a person, but they are not always end up as bad things.

In fact I am ashamed to express here that I am not behaving the way I should do; I am not what I am and all my, if not all, most of my actions are shaped by what others want me to do; all are there staging there incessantly engaged in shaping the course of life I should take; my parents stuffing my mind with their nonsensical ideas and ideologies conditioning my mind all the time, for I have to obey for we have a contractual agreement between us; my societies, my relatives, teachers, Gurus, books, the friends on different forums want me to behave in a funnily different way than I actually would want. Imagine how much-hard-pressed I am. Can I behave or be what I want to?

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Originally Posted by blazeofglory

Of course we all are too much obsessed with what others will think about us and at times I feel all we do are instigated by others or that we are too much obsessed with others' business more than our own.

When we get too muchness about others reaction to what we do or behave we feel too much pressured.

Therein exactly where problems lie when we kind of totally become totally fixated by others' reactions or thoughts about what we do.

That is exactly from where problems start.

Let us live on our own unthinking about what the rest think about us.

In fact no one is perfect and unblemished, and no human' corpus is totally clean of incompleteness or flaws. It is the cover or the outer paint that gives the idea of completeness or perfection.

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Nice post. Easier said than done. I am always obsessed with what others think about me--and I find that being obsessed makes life more fun and interesting. When you are always anticipating what others are thinking about you. 75% of the time you are wrong. But the very few times that you are right, you feel glorified that for just one fleeting moment, you may be on the exact same train of thought. And it makes you feel a little less alone...

To Dark Muse~ "Who cares what others think about me" sentiment:

You shouldn't care. That doesn't mean you are a misanthrope. At least not to its extreme I hope to god. If it had "hurt" their feelings. Should you care? You are not obligated to care. Perhaps its ineffecient and cumbersome to care. And perhaps its retarted not to care. Who knows when you'll be needing that person? Or who knows what close friends that person has in common with you. Perhaps someone you have chosen to care about will be indirectly affected by a fractional amount.

Should you care? It shouldn't stick with you, like guilt, if that is what you mean. Unless you use the guilt to maximize the benefits of whatever philosophy or way of life you abide in.

In fact what you said is correct and it is fun when someone instigates you to do something and of course if it is on balance I subscribe to this idea, but things are not so always, and we tend lose interests in things we innately want to do in life but when what we really want to do cannot be done and what others want us to do drive us life will be full of stress and that is why there is violence, sadism in the world, and as a matter of fact people want to amass wealth heap upon heap and this greed is triggered not by the need of the person accumulating wealth but by a desire of becoming a dominant figure in point of fact. For example I choose to live in a skyscraper not out of need but out of greed or the fact that my neighbor has built a skyscraper and why should I not build one and this then engorges his own ego and there will be cutthroat competition between him and me. I have to by hook or by crook compete with my neighbor. That is what instigates people to indulge in bribery, money laundering and other kind of fraudulent activities. Of course as a social being we have to do things to please, satisfy others. We cannot go unhearing what our family members have to say as a matter of fact. In many cases bribery or embezzlement
of public funds take place by people driven by their family inducements. I know people taking bribes when their spouses motivate them to do so. Imagine what will be the consequence of doing things promoted by what others want you to do.

We cannot completely abstain from not doing what others want us to do in substance. But we must use our conscience as a guiding star so that we can keep us from falling off. Conscience is with everyone in the world and every man has this asset and if we listen to it and do not get swayed by what others want us to do we can live with poise and harmony in life or else we will be doomed to suffer the insufferable. Let us be ourselves not themselves

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Originally Posted by blazeofglory

In fact what you said is correct and it is fun when someone instigates you to do something and of course if it is on balance I subscribe to this idea, but things are not so always, and we tend lose interests in things we innately want to do in life but when what we really want to do cannot be done and what others want us to do drive us life will be full of stress and that is why there is violence, sadism in the world, and as a matter of fact people want to amass wealth heap upon heap and this greed is triggered not by the need of the person accumulating wealth but by a desire of becoming a dominant figure in point of fact. For example I choose to live in a skyscraper not out of need but out of greed or the fact that my neighbor has built a skyscraper and why should I not build one and this then engorges his own ego and there will be cutthroat competition between him and me. I have to by hook or by crook compete with my neighbor. That is what instigates people to indulge in bribery, money laundering and other kind of fraudulent activities. Of course as a social being we have to do things to please, satisfy others. We cannot go unhearing what our family members have to say as a matter of fact. In many cases bribery or embezzlement
of public funds take place by people driven by their family inducements. I know people taking bribes when their spouses motivate them to do so. Imagine what will be the consequence of doing things promoted by what others want you to do.

We cannot completely abstain from not doing what others want us to do in substance. But we must use our conscience as a guiding star so that we can keep us from falling off. Conscience is with everyone in the world and every man has this asset and if we listen to it and do not get swayed by what others want us to do we can live with poise and harmony in life or else we will be doomed to suffer the insufferable. Let us be ourselves not themselves

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you are going "macro" on me :). I agree the "evil" that comes from a lot of people is because of them trying to create an image of themself because they are actively trying to manipulate the perception of others.

An image they would not normally feign if they did not want to influence/ or make other people see them in a certain way.

You cut that behavior out of everyone, and surely you'll get a more peaceful world to live in. But perhaps by cutting this trait, you also cannot fail but to cut the vein that springs curiousity (for inventions) and genorosity (for fun and happiness)

Of course the obvious response would be to "just cut out the things that makes one want to do violence." Only cut out the "player's" fear. If he didn't fear for his life, surely he would be a nicer person. Fear comes from neglect. Just as confidence comes from consistency ;). Erase neglect

We sure have a lot of romanticisms of ourselves. The great ideals that we have for ourselves, i.e., how we ideally see ourselves is one thing; the impression that we create towards others is another. It is foolishness to revere the latter; however, it is hypocrisy to patronize the former.

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Originally Posted by Scheherazade85

We sure have a lot of romanticisms of ourselves. The great ideals that we have for ourselves, i.e., how we ideally see ourselves is one thing; the impression that we create towards others is another. It is foolishness to revere the latter; however, it is hypocrisy to patronize the former.

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So its arrogant to think of ourselves as having all the answers in the world.
Which would lead to problems.
And foolish to worry about the impressions we leave on others.
Which would lead to problems.

I'm trying to extract that little bit for everything it is worth :)

It all comes down to two things:
Be involved (consistent) or be neglectful. Perhaps the involved part has charitable connotations to it in order for it to make sense.
And if we break it down to those 2, it makes things a lot more easier.

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Originally Posted by PierreGringoire

It all comes down to two things:
Be involved (consistent) or be neglectful.

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Just want to point out that "neglectful" can be a 'loaded term'. e.g. We could think of being "involved with" a criminal scheme, or "not involved" with it (to give an exaggerated, but possible, example). "Neglectful" immediately suggests a morally negative position. "Not involved" is neutral, and allows circumstances to suggest the morality of the position.

"What other people think of me is none of my business"
You can't please everybody. You don't have to worry much about what other people say about you as long as you know that you don't harm anybody, you don't hurt anybody and you don't push anybody to their limits.

publish a book
book publishing

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Originally Posted by glover7

And, Apathy, for someone who claims not to care what other people think, you certainly do quote a lot of other people ;)

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I can still respect the thoughts of those I admire, also many of the qoutes I use are because they can say what I think better than I can

This is a mind-boggling thread and in fact I like the thread beyond words and now I want to spice up it for it has greater significance, bearing and relevance to all what we do or think in day to day course. As I so many times wrote that one of the reasons why we stress out ourselves is we care for and this goes at times un-proportionately to the extent of getting us to collapse. I do most of my activities not out of the need but out of the instigation by others, by my own family members thinking that if he earns that much why should I not outsmart in earning and that in fact motivates me to undertake dark alleys in life and I may do the unthinkable. Why crimes happen? We want illimitable assets, honors, fames and if you are on the right track or if you do not use devious ways you are likely to fail in life and you never can succeed. Personally I like to live a life of simplicity, un-sumptuousness, minimalism, but the society I am in does not approve of this.

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Originally Posted by blazeofglory

This is a mind-boggling thread and in fact I like the thread beyond words and now I want to spice up it for it has greater significance, bearing and relevance to all what we do or think in day to day course. As I so many times wrote that one of the reasons why we stress out ourselves is we care for and this goes at times un-proportionately to the extent of getting us to collapse. I do most of my activities not out of the need but out of the instigation by others, by my own family members thinking that if he earns that much why should I not outsmart in earning and that in fact motivates me to undertake dark alleys in life and I may do the unthinkable. Why crimes happen? We want illimitable assets, honors, fames and if you are on the right track or if you do not use devious ways you are likely to fail in life and you never can succeed. Personally I like to live a life of simplicity, un-sumptuousness, minimalism, but the society I am in does not approve of this.

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Good point. Although it is you who are baseing your "success" off of what other people think in the first place. I don't know if you ever eat at Jimmy John's. But I read a sign there that read this--- it gives an interesting lesson.


How Much is Enough?

The American businessman was at the pier of a small coastal Mexican village when a small boat with just one fisherman docked. Inside the small boat were several large yellow-fin tuna. The American complimented the Mexican on the quality of his fish and asked how long it took to catch them. The Mexican replied only a little while. The American then asked why didn't he stay out longer and catch more fish? The Mexican said he had enough to support his family's immediate needs. The American then asked, but what do you do with the rest of your time?

The Mexican fisherman said, “I sleep late, fish a little, play with my children, take siesta with my wife, Maria, stroll into the village each evening where I sip wine and play guitar with my amigos, I have a full and busy life, senor.”

The American scoffed, “I am a Harvard MBA and could help you. You should spend more time fishing and with the proceeds buy a bigger boat with the proceeds from the bigger boat you could buy several boats, eventually you would have a fleet of fishing boats. Instead of selling your catch to a middleman you would sell directly to the processor, eventually opening your own cannery. You would control the product, processing and distribution. You would need to leave this small coastal fishing village and move to Mexico City, then LA and eventually NYC where you will run your expanding enterprise.” The Mexican fisherman asked, “But senor, how long will this all take?” To which the American replied, “15-20 years.”

“But what then, senor?”

The American laughed and said that’s the best part. When the time is right you would announce an IPO and sell your company stock to the public and become very rich, you would make millions.

“Millions, senor? Then what?”

The American said, “Then you would retire. Move to a small coastal fishing village where you would sleep late, fish a little, play with your kids, take siesta with your wife, stroll to the village in the evenings where you could sip wine and play your guitar with your amigos.”

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Originally Posted by Dark Muse

I posted this quotation upon my blog, and it had stimulated a lot of interesting commentary and differing points of view upon the subject so it was suggested to me by Scher that it could make an interesting group discussion and I figured why not?

The quote is as follows:



I heard the quote on the radio, and the person who stated it said she got it from Flowers for Algernon.

The discursion upon my blog brought up the idea if one does in fact have a responsibility of some sort to consider what other people think of them in relation to their actions, and how the react to other people, and if there is some sort of generally responsibility to society regarding how one is perceived.

And the practicality or impracticality of truly abiding by the sentiment behind the quote.

As a misanthrope I myself do not feel any true social reasonability to the general populace and do not truly care what others make think of me. I often adjusted others by my belief that if someone else gets offended by something I say, it is their problem not mine.

I have always had an apathy for what anyone else might be inclined to think about me and while I do not go out of my way to be rude, I do not think I have an obligation to protect the feelings of other people.

I just don't do fake nice but on the other side, nor do I expect other people to play nice with me if they are not sincere.

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I'd just like to point out that you have two beliefs working here.
1) That you don't care what other people think of you
2) That you don't care about the feeling of other people (obviously, your not extremely rude, like you said. But the degree of neglect you have of other people's feelings is kind of ambiguous-- and I cannot assume that it leans toward one extreme or the other-- therefore it is hard to try to prove your theories with my reason.)

The idea of becoming others is really fascinating but that will do great smash up your real self. Of course if your neighbors are billionaires and won private jets you too long for them and of course this longing in itself is a good virtue, something natural of humans, and yet the action you take to accomplish your desire maybe curved not always straight and you may have to take a hook to be where you want to be. That is how crimes happen. I have seen a man who was in a custom office but made little money from the service. He was a high ranking official and but always refrained from taking bribes under all circumstances. People- his relatives, friends, and family members disapprove of his acts, too much altruistic and later on he got transferred. He never cared about what others think and he totally and unswervingly focused his minds on the jobs he was assigned and he wanted to prove his honesty, loyalty at all costs.

And as a result he was a failed, neighbor, an unsuccessful father or husband and could not keep friends for he had no bucks to take friends to restaurants. This entails the fact that you are a social creature and of course you have to adapt to a new circumstance and meet demands and if you fail to this end you will drop behind in life.

The reality I always keep in mind is that most of us move because what others may think about us. A husband is always worried because he has not been able to satisfy the needs of his wife and the idea what my spouse will think about my inability to make fast bucks. This expectation of others and our endeavors to satisfy us will stress us out and we will be as a result a very miserable creature in this world. The large masses of wealth do not happen out of real needs but out of greed or out of the motives behind it said above.