smoking is bad, right?

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Originally Posted by Paulclem

Which are these many many religions? I presume you're not talking about things like joss/ incense sticks, because the point of these is as an offering to Gods/ teachers - not the consumption of.

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The only one I can think of is Native American. Tobacco is used in ritual and prayer, and it is smoked in a peace pipe. It's considered that with the smoke which rises in the air, the prayers also rise up to the spirit world. They do it in sweats, for instance... I don't remember if at the beginning or at the end.

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Originally Posted by rimbaud

Now if there was a large woman/man in a McDonald's eating for tree would someone yell at her " how can you do that to yourself? watch your cholesterol? look at the size of you"

how is this different?

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It's not.

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Originally Posted by Delta40

Smoking has no health benefit at all, whereas food does.

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Originally Posted by Michael T

Nothing good ever came from smoking.

...we all know that nothing good ever came from smoking.

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These comments are incorrect.

While I am in no way "pro-smoking", I am entirely "pro-fact".

The facts are that smoking appears to be a complete defence against Parkinson's and Alzheimer's diseases. Given the enormous expenditure and care Alzheimers' patients require, the economic situation isn't at all clear.

Also, from an economic perspective, smokers live shorter lives on average than non-smokers. In the western world, with increasing age populations, the effect on pensions runs into trillions of dollars.

Smoking is unquestionably bad for you in many ways, but to dismiss it as having no benefits at all is not right.

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Originally Posted by Maryd.

To be totally honest with you Peter, I don't know if it really does stop any childhood illnesses.

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It doesn't.

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Originally Posted by Paulclem

Smoking is all very well if it's all about you. The trouble is smoking can't be confined to yourself. In asserting their liberty to smoke, smokers are denying others' liberty not to smoke. Of course if your smoking is unobtusive, then no problem. Smkers rarelytake this attitude though.

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I disagree with this as well.

I've seen smokers all my life, and back when many people smoked, I cannot recall a single instance of a smoker lighting up without first checking whether it was ok or not. Most smokers are very careful not to offend.

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Originally Posted by The Atheist

I've seen smokers all my life, and back when many people smoked, I cannot recall a single instance of a smoker lighting up without first checking whether it was ok or not. Most smokers are very careful not to offend.

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Wow. That is totally opposite to my experiences.

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Originally Posted by The Atheist

It's not.





These comments are incorrect.

While I am in no way "pro-smoking", I am entirely "pro-fact".

The facts are that smoking appears to be a complete defence against Parkinson's and Alzheimer's diseases. Given the enormous expenditure and care Alzheimers' patients require, the economic situation isn't at all clear.

Also, from an economic perspective, smokers live shorter lives on average than non-smokers. In the western world, with increasing age populations, the effect on pensions runs into trillions of dollars.

Smoking is unquestionably bad for you in many ways, but to dismiss it as having no benefits at all is not right.



It doesn't.



I disagree with this as well.

I've seen smokers all my life, and back when many people smoked, I cannot recall a single instance of a smoker lighting up without first checking whether it was ok or not. Most smokers are very careful not to offend.

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I'd have a lot more sympathy if this were true in my experience too. I really don't mind smokers smoking. What I mind is smokers making me smoke. But can you mention it to them? I wouldn't even bother. I'd have no problem with considerate smokers like your good self.

Smoking helps me to endure the agitation of dealing with people I...

"Smoking is all very well if it's all about you. The trouble is smoking can't be confined to yourself. [No ****, Sherlock] In asserting their liberty to smoke, smokers are denying others' liberty not to smoke [yeah...? I couldn't give a rat's arse]. Of course if your smoking is unobtusive, then no problem [oh, okay]. Smkers rarelytake this attitude though.[and what?]" - Paulclem

so smoking is sort of like opinions...?

As the great gun-slinging, showdown philosopher, Clint Eastwood said, "Opinions are like *******s, everyone's got one".

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Originally Posted by papayahed

Wow. That is totally opposite to my experiences.

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Originally Posted by Paulclem

I'd have a lot more sympathy if this were true in my experience too. I really don't mind smokers smoking. What I mind is smokers making me smoke. But can you mention it to them? I wouldn't even bother. I'd have no problem with considerate smokers like your good self.

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Kiwis are just such damned thoughtful people!

:)

I guess if I can blame anyone for my current distress, it is JBI, because I surfed around for fake cigarettes after an old thread discussion, and found these stupid plastic tubes filled with tissue paper and vapor, and haven't touched tobacco since summer, but I am really suffering now, physical spasms tightening my spasticity, and my emotional balance has flown the coop.

I don't think non-smokers realize how difficult it is to kick this dependence, at least for some of us, but what forced me to stop wasn't fear of lung cancer or emphysema, despite that choking to death in that manner is a rather unique experience--for me it was fear of additional injury, as I had a bad burn accident in the winter of 06. Cerebral Palsy may not be progressive, though I dispute certain diagnostic issues in terms of its effect on mortality in relation to secondary symptoms, like digestive health, depending on birth damage--but my addiction merits medical supervision.

I tried the patch. I tried anti-depressants, but for some of us nothing eases the anguish of withdrawal, and I have little choice right now in terms of options. I no longer trust my physical steadiness even with the expensive lighters I have, as even a stray spark might get me into trouble.

Every smoker might not be an addict, but I am, for all intents, although I don't engage in criminal activity for a fix. I may be breathing better, but I do not feel better, and doubt I shall for a long time.

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Originally Posted by rimbaud

well, it got my attention on TV it was some kind of documentary

we all know that smoking is bad, even before the writings on the boxes. Lung cancer and impotency and all that stuff. But if someone knows all that stuff, some still judge him/her for it.

there was an example:
Person A is a smoker and is lighting a cigarette, and Person B is a non smoker and judgmental and is all "how can you do that to yourself? Don't you know that smoking is bad, and ...."

Now if there was a large woman/man in a McDonald's eating for tree would someone yell at her " how can you do that to yourself? watch your cholesterol? look at the size of you"

how is this different?

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Well the act of criticism is not exactly the same because the action is not exactly the same. I say this because eating badly affects you directly and others only indirectly, but smoking affects you and others directly.

A thought which came to me -- and I direct this in part to The Atheist -

here where I live, actually people do smoke around others...

The main place they do this is the Bus Stop... I think it may be the same in other places, or maybe not... but a lot of people do smoke at the bus stop, and in general I think they would not have a very receptive attitude at all if you asked them to stop!

I think it's pretty undefensibile, to smoke at the bus stop... but that's just my view. It's so ingrained as a social actuality, it's not likely to change, and I have no desire to spend energy to try to... I just go to stops where no one else is, if I can... -- and it's a pretty high percentage of any bus stop that has 1 or 2 people that one of them will smoke while you are there.

But as I said I don't care too much... I mean I think it is a stupid and asinine thing to do but I'm not interested at all in fixing everyone's flaws! :)

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Originally Posted by Jozanny

I may be breathing better, but I do not feel better, and doubt I shall for a long time.

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I'm sorry. I've always found quitting the most difficult part, but that need goes away after a couple months. On the flip side, I did start smoking again after not having touched one for over two years. Each time I go to quit it seems to get a little more difficult.

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Originally Posted by mkhockenberry

I'm sorry. I've always found quitting the most difficult part, but that need goes away after a couple months. On the flip side, I did start smoking again after not having touched one for over two years. Each time I go to quit it seems to get a little more difficult.

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Thank you mk. I do not really blame JBI, of course :goof:, it was an ethical decision on my part, as I live alone and have to make some compromises with my age. Disease is one thing, but I set my hair on fire in a careless use of a match, and I still can't use the experience in my writing, as the terror of burning to death is still too close--and I was lucky it wasn't worse, that I could somehow drive to kitchen, scream at my cat, and had a bowl of water in the sink to dunk over my head. My right shoulder is treed, and my back needed a graft, and I lost a bit of lobe on my right ear. Even on the narcotics they sent me home with, I lit right back up, but when I found these Aeros in 09 I decided to really try to kick, due to the emphysema attacks as well, but the only thing that keeps me from lighting up with my domestic helper is he uses menthol. I only feel better tonight due to a copious amount of sleep, but think it will be a life long struggle.