September / Comic Novel Reading: A Confederacy of Dunces

"Gloria!"

:D

Hehe

I love Santa, she cracks me

I was expecting her to elope with the old guy, to be honest. Surprisingly, she turned out to be genuine in her match-making efforts.

(If this were an Austen book, she would have though :D)

I never really thought that, I always felt that her match-making efforts were genuine. In a way she is one of the most likable characters in the book, because she seems to be truly the only one who actually does do things for herself, and doesn't just sit around and complain about her problems.

Though I still am quite fascinated by Jones and his clouds of smoke.

I like his use of the reflexive in the dialog, which is sort of a Cajun-ism you hear sometimes from natives of New Orleans. “Myself, I go down der to de Café Du Monde for dem beignets an some a dat cafe au lait.” Something like that. It’s a little more widespread over in Lafayette.
Anyway, what do you guys think of his phonetic spelling inside the quotation marks. Could he have developed Jones without it? I think modern African-Americans readers may choke on the cartoonish portrayal of Jones.

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Originally Posted by Sancho

I like his use of the reflexive in the dialog, which is sort of a Cajun-ism you hear sometimes from natives of New Orleans. “Myself, I go down der to de Café Du Monde for dem beignets an some a dat cafe au lait.” Something like that. It’s a little more widespread over in Lafayette.

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I rather liked the dilect within the story, it added a certain flavor to it for me, and it did make it more interesting and humurous.

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Originally Posted by Sancho

I think modern African-Americans readers may choke on the cartoonish portrayal of Jones.

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I agree that is probably true, but if they had any common sense, they could see that all of the characters are a parody and cartoonish. I mean just look at Iggy and Myrna

Do you think he could’ve gotten the same effect with syntax only and skipped the spelling?

No, I do not think it would have been quite the same effect. The story would have still worked, and I don't think that Jones is quite completely dependent upon it, but still it adds a touch or realism and brings Jones a bit more to life off the page. At least that is how I see it.

And I don't believe Toole had any racial malice in his doing so, as he pants everyone in the story with an equal brush if you ask me. I think he was just being an observer of society and American culture, and than making it into an intentional parody of itself.

agreed

I’ve gotta admit the cloud formations crack me up, thunderclouds, cumulonimbus, stratus, cirrus; it just keeps going. I’m waiting for a mushroom cloud.

I abolsutely LOVED the cloud fomations.

I am not quite done with the book yet, but as I am getting near the end, one thing that I really enjoy is the way in which Toole is making all these connections between the varrious characters and little differnet plots, and how one thing leads to another which is brining everything sort of together.

I’m glad you mentioned that. I was just admiring the way Toole weaved the story (or stories).

I bogged down on this book in the middle, but this thread and Myrna’s letter re-energized me. Although published in 1980, I think the book was written the 60s, making Myrna’s political musings all that more prophetic. I’m talking about her trying to incite Ignatius to act on his theories and start the Divine Right Party, which would syphon fascist elements from other political parties and give the country a much needed three party system. I was howling by the end of her letter.

Anyhow, I’m still behind the rest of you but I plan to catch up tonight. My biggest problem now is a mechanical one: my book is sort of old and held together by a rubberband so I have to sit a desk to read it. On the bus ain’t an option.

Viola, finished.

Things just aren’t going to work out for Myrna, are they: one lost cause after another.

Anyway I’m glad I stuck with it to the end. It was well worth it, if only to read the comic sketch about the kickoff rally and the interaction between the bull-dykes and the nancy-boys. What a hoot.

Does anyone think you can (or should) read this book as a stand-alone text. I mean, without knowing anything about the author or how he ended his life?

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Originally Posted by Sancho

Does anyone think you can (or should) read this book as a stand-alone text. I mean, without knowing anything about the author or how he ended his life?

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Considering that is what I did, I would definately say you can. I know nothing about Toole or his life, but I thorughly enjoyed reading this book, and do not feel my ignorance on the authors life has negatively impacted my reading of the book.

Personaly if a book cannot be read as a stand alone text I do not think it truly makes a very good book, a reader should not have to be a shcolar upon authors biography to be able to read and understand thier works.

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Originally Posted by Scheherazade

OK, here is a question. At the end of the book, Iggy's interest in Myrna's hair... I find it a little icky because I cannot help thinking there is connection with the long hair and the dog. Does anyone get the same feeling?I think it was Bouquin who nominated it :)

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I did not feel like her hair was connected to the dog really, and though the dog scene was strange to say the least, perhaps you are trying to make too much of it.

Though I did find that scene at the end to be a bit odd, it felt almost out of character for Iggy to me. Though he was desperate to escape from the Charity House, it is hard for me to believe that in that moment he would commit such a complete 180 of his personality. Though in the future I do not know if there is much genuine hope of Iggy truly making any sort of change for the better, I had a little trouble completely buying the ending of the book.

But perhaps his long going antitheses with her through their letters back and forth was really just Iggy's way of having something of a connection with her, and at the root of it, maybe he truly did like her all along, but he is just too socially inept to be able to expresses his feelings in any other way but the negative.

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Originally Posted by Dark Muse

Personaly if a book cannot be read as a stand alone text I do not think it truly makes a very good book, a reader should not have to be a shcolar upon authors biography to be able to read and understand thier works.

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By and large, I agree. In fact I'd probably enjoy Hemingway more not knowing that he could be quite a tool in his private life. Charles Dickens was notoriously prickly towards criticism and that knowledge doesn't detract from my enjoyment of Tale of Two Cities. But this book may be an exception to the rule.

I don’t know a lot about the author either, except what was written in the forward by Walker Percy. He gives the story of how the book came to be published. The other thing that jumps out is the copy write: 1980 by Thelma Toole. I, and others on this forum, have wondered how much of the novel autobiographical. So with this book, it seems to me, the whole story behind the book has become part of the book.

Here’s a thought I had after setting the book aside and thinking about it for a couple of days. And it sort of goes along with knowing a little about the author – sort of but not really.

To enhance the experience of the book, I think it helps to know a little about New Orleans: its topography, geography, climatology, sociology, and its history. If the United States is a melting pot, then New Orleans is dat gumbo what goes in da pot.

The characters in the book represent a nice cross-section of greater the New Orleans population. The history of the place, to a certain extent, is written in their last names:
Reilly, Mancuso, Jones, Lee, Levy, Robichaux. The Acadian (Cajun) name runs a close third in prevalence down there to Boudreaux and Thibodeaux. Also, I don’t think it was an accident that the only Anglican name was given to an African-American.

I enjoy reading about places I’m familiar with. It gives me a frame of reference. I can put a place with a name when he talks about the Algiers ferry dock, the Quarter, St Charles Street, the Causeway Bridge, or even Slidell. Also it helps to know the dubious history of the state penitentiary at Angola.

Anyway, it was just a thought.

I have always had a certain fascination with New Orleans, and I rather enjoyed myself the fact that the book was set within New Orleans, and reading about Ig's experiences on the French Quarter and the references to Mardi Gras.

I’ve never had a bad time in NOLA but I haven’t been there since Katrina.

Here’s something kind of spooky (if you believe Wiki). Hollywood has had several aborted attempts to make a movie of Confederacy of Dunces, but the leading character keeps dying. So far they’ve cast John Belushi, John Candy, and Chris Farley.

Anyhow, Muse, looks like you and I are the only two hep-cats still chatting about this book so I guess it’s time for me to go down to my local book-monger and find something new to read. Any suggestions?

That is eerie if it s indeed true.

Haha well other then Confederacy of Dunces, I am not sure what sort of books you might be inclined to like and my own reading tastes are very ecclectic so I am not sure where to begin with trying to reccomend anything.

Ha!

Thanks, I'll find something. Browsing the stacks just may be my favorite part.

Cheers

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Originally Posted by Sancho

Ha!

Thanks, I'll find something. Browsing the stacks just may be my favorite part.

Cheers

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Maybe you would consider taking part in our next reading? ;)


I have just read a quick read of Toole's biographie on Wiki and I am not sure if his work is exactly autobiographical (even though there might some similarities especially the mother).

And I have very little knowledge of New Orleans area but it didn't stop me from enjoying the book (true that I might have enjoyed it more had I been familiar).

Hey thanks, Sher.

It sounds like fun. Sadly though, I’ve never been too reliable where making commitments are concerned.

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Originally Posted by lugdunum

I read part one last night and I'm finding the book really funny for now :lol:

My favorite part was when Ms. Reilly tries to get the car out of the parking place....: Big Ignatius sitting in the back of the car yelling at his mother

I also enjoyed the part with the hat :"Please. Don't talk about it anymore. The whole business is sacrilegious". Taking everything out of proportion seems to be one of Ignatius' traits.

The thing about these two characters is that you can't help feeling embarrassed for them.... making a fool of themselves in the bar and after so many hours sitting there not taking the hints of the bartender that they weren't welcome say and the story about the bus ride to Baton Rouge (told four times by Ignatius whilst in the bar) goes to prove that their whole life is like that. Especially that of Ignatius because his mother looks a bit less "idiot" than her son and would probably be better off without him.

About the policemen.... what was sending patrolman Caruso on the streets wearing ballet tights and a yellow sweater about??!... Funny sight though ...:lol:!

Has this book been made into a movie? Because so far it certainly looks as though it could...

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I am about halfway done with the book and the most comical part for me so far is in Chapter 8 (spoiler warning!)...... when Mrs. Reilly and Mr. Robichaux meet at Santa's house and Angelo is in the kitchen somewhere about to come out anytime. The scene is quite something and the dialogue, too!

If a movie were to be made of Confederacy who would you think could be aptly cast in the role of Ignatius?

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Originally Posted by Sancho

Sadly though, I’ve never been too reliable where making commitments are concerned.

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And what does Missus say to that?

:D

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Originally Posted by bouquin

I am about halfway done with the book and the most comical part for me so far is in Chapter 8 (spoiler warning!)...... when Mrs. Reilly and Mr. Robichaux meet at Santa's house and Angelo is in the kitchen somewhere about to come out anytime. The scene is quite something and the dialogue, too!

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There are so many memorable, hillarious scenes! Like when mother sells her hat and Iggy claims emotional injury because of his attachment to the hat... or when he says he will call their lawyers.

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If a movie were to be made of Confederacy who would you think could be aptly cast in the role of Ignatius?

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How about Philip Seymour Hoffman or Oliver Platt?

(spoiler warning....)

Another comical scene for me is in Chapter 9 when Darlene rehearses as a Southern belle and starts mixing up ball, balls, beau, bones!

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Originally Posted by Scheherazade

And what does Missus say to that?

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Me and the little lady have a understanding, see.

Hey, I’m starting to sound like Stanley Kowalski now.

Which, of course, moves us to the stage but keeps us in New Orleans. I noticed in Toole’s book, he talked about the Desire Street Bus, perhaps he’s updating or at least tilting his hat towards A Streetcar Named Desire.

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Originally Posted by Sancho

Which, of course, moves us to the stage but keeps us in New Orleans. I noticed in Toole’s book, he talked about the Desire Street Bus, perhaps he’s updating or at least tilting his hat towards A Streetcar Named Desire.

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From http://knowledgerush.com/kr/encyclopedia/New_Orleans/

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There are two active streetcar lines, the Riverfront line (also known as the Ladies in Red since the cars are painted red) which runs parallel to the river from Canal Street through the French Quarter, and the St. Charles line (green cars, formerly connecting New Orleans with the then independent suburb of Carrollton). The city is also the scene of the Tennessee Williams play "A Streetcar Named Desire." The streetcar line to Desire Street became a bus line in 1948, but will be restored as a light rail line.

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Originally Posted by Scheherazade

I am not sure if Iggy really dislikes all those things he keeps complaining about. I think he actually likes watching all those movies and TV programmes but, like many "intellectuals" out there, he just cannot bring himself to admit that he actually enjoys what "common" people enjoy...

Regarding complaining... I think they all suffer from the ailment of the modern society. Everyone is so willing to be a victim; they are mistreated; their lives are not fair; it is always someone else's fault and they are the unluckiest, poorest creatures ever breathed on this earth... All this could have been acceptable if they were willing to take a step to turn things around for themselves.

Been an interesting, fun reading. :D

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I agree that Ignatius actually likes watching movies, perhaps the more slapstick the better even. It is just that he is trying to pass for an intellectual, he is pretentious and considers himself to have more discriminating taste than everybody else so on the outside he disparages the very same films that he is, in fact, always itching to go watch. He does admit to having a favorite actress though; nevertheless, he says that she commits only blasphemy, vulgarity, horrors, etc. on the scene.

In a Journal entry (Chapter 11) Ignatius writes: I do not understand this compulsion of mine for seeing movies; it almost seems as if movies are "in my blood."
Perhaps that among his other affectations he also thinks that he would make an exceptional actor?

I'm kinda a newbie here; just wondering if I can tag on to this book and if you've all finished it?
How does the club really work? And when are you discussing this particular one?
- What is being read next?

The discussions are on-going so you can read and join anytime you want.

For the next book, please visit here: http://www.online-literature.com/for...ad.php?t=46028

[quote=bouquin]He does admit to having a favorite actress though; nevertheless, he says that she commits only blasphemy, vulgarity, horrors, etc. on the scene.[/quotte]I think when he says he tries to sound "sarcastic", implying that the actress is vulgar, lacking etc but in reality he has a crush on her, I think.

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Originally Posted by Dark Muse

Yes, that is what Ignatius feels, but I question, is that truly what the author intends? Are you meant to take Ignatius at face value in his belief in this? And view him as the true hero of the story?

Or is the author pulling the wool of Ignatius' eyes to to speak, and is the joke truly on him? Are we suppose to sympathize with his plight? Or laugh behind his back at his foolish notion of himself?

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I think Ignatius is a pathetic creature. Mrs Reilly aptly sums it up: "You ain't only crazy, Ignatius. You mean, too. ... You learnt everything, ... except how to be a human being." (chapter 13.xiii)

Hello everyone. I've been lurking for quite some time and have decided to register. This site has been extremely helpful as a guidepost as to what to read and in attempting to decipher it after wards.

I just finished this book late last night. I thought it was excellent. I thought Toole made the characters and their dialogue very believable, which considering how eccentric they were, was no small feat.

I was surprised how throughout the book the wide variations of emotions I had towards Ignatius. (Disgust and anger, to pity and eventually a tad of empathy) Toole did a wonderful job of making him a character that I will not forget.

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Originally Posted by Scheherazade

I agree that we are not expected to feel sorry for Iggy; the book is a satirical work (bordering a farce at times) on many self-important people we come across every single day:Love the scene in which Iggy tries to sit on the little stool! :D

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Characters like Ignatius would most probably be aggrieved if we felt pity for them. What they would rather want and expect would be admiration, applause, veneration.

My heart went for this part, it's silly so:
"The door opened slowly. ignatius stuck his fat gray face into the hall. his mother's eyes watered when she saw the bandage."

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Originally Posted by bouquin

If a movie were to be made of Confederacy who would you think could be aptly cast in the role of Ignatius?

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how about Will Ferrel in a fat suit? it's not my choice, but after all you might see him as Ignatius. Movie was planned to be released in 2007, but it didn't happen. Currently Paramount owns the rights to the book, for now is just not interested in this project. Here's the rest of the cast: Lily Tomlin, Drew Barrymore, Mos Def, Olympia Dukakis.
just check this link
http://www.slate.com/id/2155500
I'd rather wait 10 more years than watch annoying WF.

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Originally Posted by Scheherazade

OK, here is a question. At the end of the book, Iggy's interest in Myrna's hair... I find it a little icky because I cannot help thinking there is connection with the long hair and the dog. Does anyone get the same feeling?

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There our friend's hypocrisy reached all highs . One minute he's about to strangle her with that pigtail, next minute he gives it wet moustache bath.

honestly that dog story remains mystery to me. All I know (and trying to forget) that it was part of Ig..'s strange "m" fantasy. If I didn't miss anything, we actually never heard about the dog from Ignatius himself. And there's Miss Annie's story and her remark that "Idnatius" was ok until the dog died.

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Originally Posted by Zosimov'sCorpse

I was surprised how throughout the book the wide variations of emotions I had towards Ignatius. (Disgust and anger, to pity and eventually a tad of empathy) Toole did a wonderful job of making him a character that I will not forget.

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:nod: I can't agree more
and welcome to the Book Club:)

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Originally Posted by Scheherazade

I think it was Bouquin who nominated it :)

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Thank you again, guys! you can't imagine how much fun I had, how much I liked the book!

Sher, I have 3 more thanks to send :nod::)- Right now I'm reading "Scoop". "Lucky Jim", "Three men in a boat" are in my waiting list. I'm having wonderful reading time.:banana:

Early in the week I learned that Australia's most colourful Lit. academic, Bob Ellis, places this novel on top of his recommendations for contemporary reading: Toole's Ignatius J. Reilly does for New Orleans what Joyce's Leopold Bloom does for Dublin.

I gather from activity on this thread that I have missed much. :rage:

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Originally Posted by Dark Muse

I have to say, I was quite surprised with Iggy actually sticking behind the hot dog vendor job and wondered what drove him to do it. While his integrity as a vendor leaves much to be desired being that he eats more hot dogs than he sells, it still struck me that he presciently showed up for the gig everyday as it seems to be the last thing something like Iggy would indeed commit himself to doing.

Is it some boyish fear of his mother's complaining, and the fact that he could not bare the thought of having to go out job hunting even more which caused him to stick with the vending job?

Or underneath all of his complaints is there something within him that actually enjoys the work? Even in perhaps some perverse sort of way? The fact that it makes him feel like a martyr of sorts.

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I think Ignatius stuck to the Paradise job because he loved those hotdogs!

Haha, yes perhaps so

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Originally Posted by Scheherazade

All his writings and so-called projects remind me of a child's as well... A child with a very active imagination (a Walter Mitty character?). He signed his letter to his Prof as "Zorro"!

Love it that Miss Trixie keeps calling him "Gloria".:D

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I'm thinking that maybe there's something symbolic about the name Gloria. Ignatius covets praise and recognition, i.e., glory; then we find him being called Gloria by mistake and by somebody who is no longer is full possession of her intellectual capacities. It's as if to associate Ignatius with glory would be an inaccuracy, an aberration.

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Originally Posted by bouquin

I'm thinking that maybe there's something symbolic about the name Gloria. Ignatius covets praise and recognition, i.e., glory; then we find him being called Gloria by mistake and by somebody who is no longer is full possession of her intellectual capacities. It's as if to associate Ignatius with glory would be an inaccuracy, an aberration.

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That is a valid interpretation, I think.

Hadn't thought about it.

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Originally Posted by Sancho

I like his use of the reflexive in the dialog, which is sort of a Cajun-ism you hear sometimes from natives of New Orleans. “Myself, I go down der to de Café Du Monde for dem beignets an some a dat cafe au lait.” Something like that. It’s a little more widespread over in Lafayette.
Anyway, what do you guys think of his phonetic spelling inside the quotation marks. Could he have developed Jones without it? I think modern African-Americans readers may choke on the cartoonish portrayal of Jones.

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Jones is my favorite character.

I thought Jones was a bit flat in the book, but Mos Def could definitely round out that character in a movie. In fact, he’d probably steal the show, fo’ shizzle! How about Seth Rogen as Ignatius?

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Originally Posted by caspian

I feel same way about Ignatius.. There was a moment I almost quit reading -when his religious ecstasy took a sudden turn (I part of Chapter II). It took me whole day to get over the disgust. Now I'm a little careful - I avoid reading parts with Ig. before or after eating. :lol:
he's one big PARASITE -he's never wrong-and has always ready answer to every blame. I think I know him well now. I knew that he had no money to pay for hot dogs, and he would not sell any of them. Actually I'm surprised that he finally made $4. I thought he would repeat first day all the time while having that job. Another surprising side of him- Looks like he loves animals. Isn't that interesting?

This book is going to be one of my favorites. So much respect and admiration for the writer! Big, big Thanks -the one who nominated it and the ones who voted for it.



:lol: Good point

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My pleasure! I nominated this book and I'm happy it got selected. We've had a good discussion on it.