The Grinch, from How the Grinch Stole Christmas.
I think you all know why. :thumbs_up
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The Grinch, from How the Grinch Stole Christmas.
I think you all know why. :thumbs_up
In that case,the Once-ler from The Lorax.
He just didn't care about those Brown Bar-ba-loots
frisking about in their Bar-ba-loot suits. :bawling: :bawling: :bawling: :bawling: :bawling:
Probably Iago from Othello. Ill say nothing about my reasons. :D
Yes. I've read the book. He was supposed to have created the Balrogs, no? But once defeated, he remained disposed of rather than return. Sauron was harder to handle. Defeat him once, then he returns as the Necromancer in Mirkwood, before reclaiming Mordor. And seduces a Wizard, Saurman, and one of Aragorn's kin in Gondor, Denathor, neither of which was easy to do. Subtility works where force of evil cannot.Quote:
Originally Posted by Idril
Those are good points but I think it's important to remember that Melkor and Saruon weren't fighting the same people. It took the Vala to dispose of Melkor/Morgoth, Sauron's enemies weren't quite so powerful. The Elves and Men tried to deal with Melkor/Morgoth on their own and they weren't able to defeat him so they called in the big guns and the resulting war completely destroyed the Middle Earth of that time, because of that war, the half of ME fell into the ocean Valinor was hidden, it was a fairly cataclysmic deal. Sauron, while very powerful and vile himself, didn't carry that kind of weight, the Vala stayed out of it and let the masses deal with him. I suppose you can say they intervened in that they sent the Wizards but that was a far as they were willing to go. So even though Morgoth was finally and permanently conquered, I still think he was the more powerful of the two, he was Vala after all and Sauron was only a Maia. :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by Pendragon
Yo I totally agree with Iago I accually thought Iago when I read villan on the thread title but Falstaff? He's no more a villan that Hal when you think about it. Hal betrays him after he risks everything to go see Hal assuming that Hal will help him out and he denies knowing him, calls him an old man, and wants him to become someone he's notafter Falstaff took Hal under his wing for the past few years. Granted Falstaff isn't honerable but so many of the honerable guys in that play are fools who die for honor when they could have taken a bit of shame and lived another day to do good. Falstaff's just true to himself and doesn't try to be like the other honorable baffoons who try to pretend to be good and are not true to themselves.Quote:
Originally Posted by superunknown
I concede the point. After all, when the Balrog comes in Moria, Gandalf tells them that since it was created by Morgoth it is beyond any of them. Defeating it kills Gandalf, who is sent back to help finish the war agaiinst Sauron, and when he returns he says none of them have a weapon that would hurt him now. So I must assume The Vala have been instrumental in his return. I think it's the cunning of Sauron, how he deceives and plans that makes him the foe I like. From the first forging of The Rings of Power to the Final Battle, his deception is what comes through the most.Quote:
Originally Posted by Idril
Oh, I certainly agree that Sauron was the sneakier of the two, Morgoth was fairly open in his defiance. I think maybe it was because Sauron knew he'd have to work a little harder, he didn't have quite the power of Morgoth so he had to go about it in different ways and in the end, he probably did do more damage, well, other than the cataclysmic destruction of Beleriand but you know what I mean. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Pendragon
My fav villians are Iago from Shakespeare's "Othello". I love the way Iago is just full of motiveless malignity. Well ok, not motiveless, but what he does doesnt justify his motives.
Javert from "Les Miserables", I dont know why. Maybe its because he seems so patriotic and patriotism makes me laugh.
Lestat from "Interview with a Vampire", because I love the way that there is not a speck of humanity in him, even at the end when there seems to be, there isnt. I just think hes so awesome.
I would't call Javert exactly a villain. And if patriotism just makes you laugh, it's pretty sad. Yes, of course there is a fraze that "Patriotism is a last refuge of a scoundrel", but let's say reading about the people who were ready to die to save your country and only laughing at them doesn't work for me. For example when Russia celebrates victory in the Second World war, I who is antiStalin, anticommunist, etc., I who realize that the victory could be achieved much easier and without so many victims, I who doesn't understand how people were running into the battle shouting "for Stalin"- I would never laugh at Russian soldiers who gave their life for their country.Quote:
Originally Posted by rocktheworld
I think Captain Hook has to be my favourite villain (and I am most definitly referring to the book and not to the movie: disney slaughtered his true character. In the book youo get inside his head and it is a surprisingly delightful and funny experience. Good Form Hook!)
I was thinking of who id call a villian and remembering the film i have already mentioned i notion Hatsumomo (the vicious queen bee) of film,the actress played her very well as the bully to Ziyi Zhang (the innocent child heroin). The film shows Ziyi sold by her family to a Ochaya house. Here she learns how to becoma a Geisha(traditional japanease dancer) you watch her as she growns. Hatsumomo is the queen Geisha and sees a future rival in young Ziyi.She goes out of her way to throw touch challenges to sweet Ziyi.Compeling film.
I know that this is a forgotten thread, a forgotten page. Yet I must yell even if that shout only dissipates and dissapears the moment it sounds through the emptiness of obscurity. But yell I must. Dostoevsky is not the writer or novelist that you think he is! Read Crime and Punishment twice and I think you will agree with me. Everything you thought you loved or did love in your first reading will immediately appear gray, vexingly one-dimensional, and not at all compelling. Is Dostoevsky a bad writer? No, he is not. Are his numerous lauds and blind worship deserved? No, they are not. I shall here quote a writer that is obscured in Dostoevsky's unwaranntedly lofty shadow: Chekhov. (And there are others he has pushed down on his unjustifed climbing of literature's ladder, e.g. Gogol, and even Tolstoy) Chekhov says of Dostoevsky, after first reading him as late as his thirties: Talented, but long and immodest. Too pretentious.
Yes, Anton Pavlovich, your words are true and are, as always, said with your modest, unpretentious bearing. I do not shout "Down with Dostoevsky!", rather proclaim "Make way for the rise of the better! The ascent of Chekhov, Tolstoy and Gogol has and will come!"
Tolstoy wrote to Chekhov saying "You know I hate Shakespeare's plays, but I hate yours even more." Voltaire as well highly criticized Shakespeare, does that mean Shakespeare was a bad writer? God no, it means that Voltaire, and Tolstoy, and 90% of kids who go through high school just didn't like Shakespeare. You saying you didn't like Crime and Punishment the second time around doesn't mean it's a bad book, it just means that you didn't like it as much, or that you don't like the book in general.Quote:
Originally Posted by chaplin
I think I know that Dostoevsky is the novelist I think he is; after all, I have read his books. Just because someone else doesn't like his literature, doesn't mean that I shouldn't. I respect your judgment of Dostoevsky, but the bold was not needed.
Les Miserables maybe?
I also would nominate Wuthering Heights and The Tenant of Wildfell Hall. As for Trollope, The Way We Live Now would be a good one to look at. Perfume is a good one as well.
150 years was enough for readers to decide who is better. Obviously, it wasn't either Chekhov or Gogol...Quote:
Originally Posted by chaplin
I need help on finding examples of villains
For my final research paper I would greatly appreciate help on the subject.
I'm having a lot of difficulty finding out any specific information about villains in early literature
I have a list of characteristics of villains, but I have dont have solid evidence/examples of their characteristics
I'll add to my list shortly, but I need to go tutor
Thanks for your help =]
!! Please, add whatever is your favorite villain and why. Whats special about them?
A very ambitious enterprise, good luck!
My favourite villains are probably MacCruiskeen and Pluck in The Third Policeman. Just as there are anti-heros, these are anti-villains. Described physically in a most menacing fashion, they are ridiculously polite, obsequious, helpful and generally very likable, and yet they manage to make that compatible with their cruelty and arbitrary judgement.
The villain in The Trial is also great, and scarier than most: it's a system, not an individual whom you can focus your hatred in. You might say it shouldn't count as a villain, and indeed it's the very lack of a conventional villain that makes reading it so frustrating.
A lot of villains in medieval literature are either monsters (like Grendel and Grendel's mother in Beowulf or Satanic (sometimes Satan himself). Sometimes they'll have satanic qualities like being traitorous (Mordred in the King Arthur legends) or have dark powers (like witches). And often, you can recognize a villain from his/her physical appearance; they'll often be physically deformed to reflect their twisted morality.
In medieval literature sometimes members of "unclean" professions were portrayed as villains. In Canterbury Tales millers are really nasty guys stealing grain and molesting women.
I was thinking of Loki, God of Evil from the Norse myths if I may recommend one. Pretty much brought on the twilight of the gods.
I vaguely remember a Charmides person, out of a play by a Roman author called Maccius Plautus, the play's title is "Rudens", in Latin. if you google it, you'll find it easy translated versions to English.
This made me think that probably Shakespeare has villains? (I don't recollect, cause I haven't read much of Shakespeare yet. There will be the day. Someone might help, and give an idea?)
There's Gollum (The Hobbit/The Lord of the Rings) as one sort of villain. Gollum is one sort of villain that is quite interesting, because it's a villain "with reason" (or with a story). He isn't simply evil. He's corrupted by many a circumstance.
(Which is what George Lucas tried to make with Darth Vader. In movies, there are Darth Vader, the best villain ever!, and there's Cap. Barbossa, and Davy Jones, in Pirates of the Caribbean, but it isn't common literature ... It's cinema.)
There's -- what is common in literature -- the "unknown villain", that is, the villain in mystery books, which are only discovered in the end. (That is the case of common detective novels, but of U. Eco's The Name of the Rose, as well ...)
I hope you can have some ideas from this, as well as other people share what come to their minds instantly, as well
Good luck!~
Raskolnikov in Dostoyewsky's "Crime and Punishment" and Stavrogin in "The Possessed", misled by nihilism and arbitrarily killing people.
Read Othello
Yes, Othello is great.
Iago is one of the best villains... his motivations are always unclear, or ambiguous. I used to despise Iago in every way (after reading Othello several times and all that) until I saw a play done by a Shakespeare company called "Othello: An Erotic Thriller." The actor who played Iago stole the show... he was sooooo terriffic that in the end I discovered something new about Iago. Everything seemed to make sense. His motivations became more clear, and he seemed so much more human.
I also love Milton's Satan. I see him more as the hero (or anti-hero if you will), but he is definitely one of the most eloquent and poetic of villains.
Javert (of Les Miserables by Hugo) is an excellent antagonist...but since he is a part of the system, he is the symbol of legalistic "virtue". He is against grace and compassion, but the "law" which is to bring about justice...therefore, Justice becomes villainous.
Great villains guys, I have most of those on my list to try to include into my paper.
Heres one that I'm surprised no one has said yet, Hannibal Lecter. One thing though, I havent read the book so I cant say too much about him =[
Many of the villains that have been mentioned here are actually anti-heros, which I think it's quite different.
You should probably address that issue in your paper as well.
If you will be mentioning Hannibal Lector, you might also want to mention Rudy von Sternberg.
evil villain
There has been a lot of talk about Heroes around here lately, but one of the things which makes heroes so interesting is their adversaries, so what about showing some villain love?
Who are your favorite villains from either mythology, or a work of literature of any type (epic, novel, play etc..) or any time period?
By "favorite" I am breaking this up into two different categories.
Category A is for those villains whom even though you know they are supposed to be the bad guy, you can't help liking them anyway, and perhaps being sympathetic towards them.
Category B is for villains who are just so brilliantly evil and loathsome they make your skin crawl.
Though not necessary a brief explanation for your choice would be appreciated, also it would be appreciated if you do include the name of the work they came from.
I'm gonna go with Darth Vader, from the modern myth called Star Wars.
From Category A the monster from Watchers by Dean Koontz because of how you perceive its feelings
from Category B it would be President Snow from the Hunger Games by Suzanne Collins.
For me Category A might prove to be quite extensive, yes it is true I do have a tendency towards villains, but I will keep it, to those which first and foremost come to mind. Though I may add to it as I proceed.
First and foremost for me is Medusa from Greek Mythology. She is supposed to be this terrifying horrible monster, but I feel she was unjustly treated and I have always sympathized with her and felt there was no just cause for her slaying which was done purely for Peruses' own self-serving desires.
Next is Clytemnestra from Orestes, though classically she is meant to be the villain of the story, I personally see her as more of a tragic hero figure. I could not help but to find her an extremely powerful woman and living in such a patriarchal age, in spite of the questionable morals of killing her husband, I admired her strength and making a stand for herself against the social norms which oppressed her, and recognizing the double standards.
And of course Dracula from Bram Stoker's Dracula, though of course I knew that the good guys would win in the end, I admit that I found it a bit sad when Dracula was eventually killed. Yeah I just have a thing for vampires.
Ahh, I almost forget, Rebecca, from du Maurier's Rebecca, though we only see her though the eyes of others, and perhaps because of the fact that we only see her though the eyes of others, as well perhaps because I found the narrator of the story to be quite annoying, I began to feel a certain sympathy for her. I think part of the reason I am drawn to her is because in the fact that she is already dead, and cannot speak for herself, she does become a sort of underdog and we only see her though the eyes of those biased against her.
For Category B:
The first name which jumped into my head was Milady from The Three Musketeers. Through the whole story I just wanted her to die, I thought she was completely horrid and I could not withstand her. She was truly a vile woman. And of course going along with that, is her son from Twenty Years After.
Category A:
Iago: Othello - Bill Shakespeare
Aaron: Titus Andronicus - Bill Shakespeare
The Judge: Blood Meridian - Cormac McCarthy
Steerpike: Titus Groan - Mervyn Peake
Category B:
O'Brien: 1984 - George Orwell
Bill Sikes: Oliver Twist - Charles Dickens
Lee Harvey Oswald: Libra - Don De Lillo
Kurtz: Heart of Darkness - Joseph Conrad
Marlowe Stanfield: The Wire
Oh yeah, how could I not think of the judge, I just finished that book LOL, though for me he would be a Catagory B.
Love Clytemnestra. Girl power!Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Muse
Category A:
Well, Ahab from Moby Dick leaps immediately to mind - the sheer foce of his personality makes him as compelling to the reader as he is to the sailors.
Miss Havisham from Great Expectations is also wonderfully characterised - though she does a great deal of harm, you can understand her motivations. The Phantom of the Opera has a similar gig going.
Category B:
Now for my favourite: the complete monsters. As she is one of my favourite characters ever, and I always want to promote her, there is the perennial villain of the Icelandic sagas: Queen Gunnhildr konungamóðir ('mother-of-kings'). Appearing in more sagas than any other single human character, she is a beautiful, ruthless man-hunter with a very casual approach to homicide; she's also a powerful enchantress, an adept politician, and a seducer par excellence.
In a similar vein, you have the equally delectable Milady de Winter from The Three Musketeers. Finally, to add some male figures to the great pantheon of evil, I'll have to go for Shakespeare's Iago and Richard III.
Catergory A: Hannibal Lecter - He's so suave and debonair, who wouldn't want to spend an evening with him?
Category B- Humbert Humbert