Does anybody else feel the human race is worthless?

You know what, it's a pretty bold statement to disown all of humanity. And our parituclar momentary existance on the planet may seem insignificant, my worries about dinner, and about buying bus tickets, are not big problems. My life, my death will have no impact but to those that love me.

But this is nonetheless the reality that we live in, and if you want to spend your time secluded, that's fair game, enjoy it. Personally I would rather spend my time exploring the good things, and valueing the positive parts of life. I, and indeed most here, come from extraordinarily privileged societies. It seems almost arrogant to find life to have no meaning, when others must fend through incurable diseases, that they had no part in attaining, that others are forced to be soldiers before the age of twelve, that in some places, little girls are sold as slaves. And I know people who have been through that, who have been molested, even tied to a tank and used as a human shield, who are able to find things that they can look forward to and enjoy.

The human race worthless? in comparison to what? Who ever claimed we must be a superior force? We are, and that is what matters. I would always advocate care for others and for the precious environment that we live in, but we are not worthless, the human race has given me things that are valuable to me, and wether it is self illusion or not, they are things that make my day worth waking to.

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Originally Posted by Dark Muse

I view the human race as a cancer upon the earth, they are killing it and all other living things in the name of thier own greed and selifishness. Like any cancer, I think that for the sake of all other life the human race should be oblitherated. They are all going to die once they destroy the world anyway, why should all living things suffer becasue of humans.

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Well, that's the way the cookie crumbles.
I suppose it's a good thing I like cookies. :D

(If I might add, your viewpoint seems altogether lacking. You are a human being too, not matter what you say, think, or do. You are a part of this so-called kiling of all living things and this so-called selfishness and greed. If I'm a cancer, you're a cancer. Have a nice day! :D)

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Originally Posted by Dori

Well, that's the way the cookie crumbles.
I suppose it's a good thing I like cookies. :D

(If I might add, your viewpoint seems altogether lacking. You are a human being too, not matter what you say, think, or do. You are a part of this so-called kiling of all living things and this so-called selfishness and greed. If I'm a cancer, you're a cancer. Have a nice day! :D)

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Exzactly, which is why I have no problem calling for the oblitheration of the human race, knowing that if such were to happen, I too would be oblitherated but I think that it would be for the greater good.

Humans no longer deserver thier right to live as a species. All other species should not have to die just for the human race, particuarly when they are already on the path destroying themselves.

It would be better if only humans were destroyed and everything else got to live.

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Originally Posted by Dark Muse

Exzactly, which is why I have no problem calling for the oblitheration of the human race, knowing that if such were to happen, I too would be oblitherated but I think that it would be for the greater good.

Humans no longer deserver thier right to live as a species. All other species should not have to die just for the human race, particuarly when they are already on the path destroying themselves.

It would be better if only humans were destroyed and everything else got to live.

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Animals die. People die.
People kill animals. Animals kill people.
(Luckily for us, we're on top.)

I can't imagine what killing off every human being would do to the welfare of any given ecosystem, or biodiversity in general.

And no one deserves the obliteration of an entire species. Period.
(Not even Hitler.)

Tell me, what would benefit? And how?
Tell me more about this "greater good."

I belive that human beings are destroying the Earth. They are killing EVERYTHING. All forms of life are being killed off by humans. I do belive the Earth does not have much longer and that pretty soon humans are going to be the cause of its end.

If the entire human race was exterminated right now. Every human just gone, dissapeared. Without thier further influence the Earth would be able to in time recover itself.

If humans live, everything including humans are going to die.

If humans die, every other living thing will have a chance at life.

The way I see it humans are already on the path to bringing about the destrution of thier own exisitince, but in the process they are going to take everything else out with them. So if humans are so determined to destroy themselves, I do not think every other life form should have to die for it as well. It would be best if only the humans were eliminated so everything else could live.

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Originally Posted by Dark Muse

I belive that human beings are destroying the Earth. They are killing EVERYTHING. All forms of life are being killed off by humans. I do belive the Earth does not have much longer and that pretty soon humans are going to be the cause of its end.

If the entire human race was exterminated right now. Every human just gone, dissapeared. Without thier further influence the Earth would be able to in time recover itself.

If humans live, everything including humans are going to die.

If humans die, every other living thing will have a chance at life.

The way I see it humans are already on the path to bringing about the destrution of thier own exisitince, but in the process they are going to take everything else out with them. So if humans are so determined to destroy themselves, I do not think every other life form should have to die for it as well. It would be best if only the humans were eliminated so everything else could live.

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Well, I suppose I will abstain from arguing further.
Personally, I believer the earth, and even human beings, will be around longer than you think.

I see nothing to convince me of that. As it is Polar bears may very likely go extinct in my own life time. And the Rain forest does not appear as if it has a hope of lasting much longer. Millions of acres of it has already been destroyed for good.

Everything is polluted more and more natural habitat is being devestated.

And the effects on Weather Patterns caused by Global Warrming are already happening.

Dark Muse, when did you become so judgemental of others to the point of separation (above the rest of us, if you don't mind - I note the tone here very strongly because you certainly don't sound less than us) This attitude
strikes me as hypocrisy. I don't like it.

Come down off your throne
Leave your body alone
Somebody has to change

Make that somebody you. Be an agent of change and not a passive recipient. ;)

It comes from me being a misantrhope I loathe the human race. And for as long as I can remember I have always been judegemental of the human race. I never particuarly cared for other people.

As far as me being a hyporctie, hardly. But even if I did go to the most extreme of giving up all modern conveinces and living in the middle of the woods running around naked, and using nothing at all that is harmful to the enviroment, that one loan act is not going to save the world at large.

I do what it is within my power to do. But it is going to take more than that to turn things around.

I use organic products, and I only buy from companies that have good enviromental records, I belong to varrious groups that are dedicated to helping the enviroment. I conserve as much as possible and recyle, reuse, use reusbale bags when I go to the store. All the things a single individual can do.

No problem. I know where you stand. I will continue to see wonders abound. nice boundary Muse.

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Originally Posted by Dark Muse

I belive that human beings are destroying the Earth. They are killing EVERYTHING. All forms of life are being killed off by humans. I do belive the Earth does not have much longer and that pretty soon humans are going to be the cause of its end.

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hey Dark Muse, I kinda agree with you on that. but what if humanity was destroyed? scientists say that another species would evolve to be 'intelligent' like humans and would eventually dominate all other species. So it probably wouldn't make a difference. Dolphins or orangutans may be cute the way they are now, but give them a couple of million years to evolve in the absence of humans and they'll be just as bad as us.
Plus, wouldn't it be a better solution to develop a way of life that does not destroy the earth, or at least 'destroys' to a significantly smaller degree than our current lifestyle does? We have the technological means to do that. I agree that 'society' is not willing to do it, but if more and more individuals were willing, we'd get there some day.
What I really don't understand about cynical people who preach the destruction of humanity is why they don't set a good example themselves. Don't get me wrong, I don't mean you personally. I'm not saying "Come one, Dark Muse, jump jump jump!". I mean people with this attitude in general. Why do they wait for the human race as a species to be destroyed (by whom? itself? aliens? a flash from Heaven?)? If they are so sure that humanity is a cancer on the planet, why don't they start surgery by doing themselves in? Wouldn't it set an example for others? Or even if no one follows their example, wouldn't it be consistent to kill themselves if they really believe that they are part of a species that ought to be obliterated? I mean, these people all use up resources (e.g. by participating in forums, eating, heating, taking showers) and thus help destroy the planet, even if they shut themselves off from 'society'.
Sorry if I'm being macabre, but I just don't get it.

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Originally Posted by Dark Muse

It comes from me being a misantrhope I loathe the human race. And for as long as I can remember I have always been judegemental of the human race. I never particuarly cared for other people.

As far as me being a hyporctie, hardly. But even if I did go to the most extreme of giving up all modern conveinces and living in the middle of the woods running around naked, and using nothing at all that is harmful to the enviroment, that one loan act is not going to save the world at large.

I do what it is within my power to do. But it is going to take more than that to turn things around.

I use organic products, and I only buy from companies that have good enviromental records, I belong to varrious groups that are dedicated to helping the enviroment. I conserve as much as possible and recyle, reuse, use reusbale bags when I go to the store. All the things a single individual can do.

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:thumbs_up :thumbs_up
sorry, I didn't read this before. Sounds like you do a lot to save the environment. I hope I'll be able to adopt a similar life style soon. who ever said you have to single-handedly save the world though? ;) why do you put so much pressure on yourself? not even Jesus or Muhammed or Buddha (sp?) or Gandhi or Ralph Nader any other of the usual suspects managed to save the world.
what I find difficult to grasp, though, is how not caring for other people is the same as hating them or being a misanthrope. I'm a bit like you in that I've never been really interested in other people. Most of the time, I like to be left alone and I wouldn't mind living in a stone age hut on my own. but I don't hate humanity and I interact well with them as long as they don't overstep the line. I click well with other grumpy people who need lots of time to be on their own, as long as they are not misanthropic. I also click with uncomplicated, nice people (as long as they aren't stupid). I only begin to hate certain individuals when they get on my nerves too much and want to be mothered or entertained by me 25 hours a day. Or when they are really stupid and tell me the same silly things all over every time we meet.
So I guess what it takes is an ability to both shut oneself off from the nasty or silly people (about 80% :( ) and see the good in the rest of humanity (and even in those silly people). I'm not saying I have this ability, but it does seem a goal to me that is worth aspiring to.

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Originally Posted by SleepyWitch

:So I guess what it takes is an ability to both shut oneself off from the nasty or silly people (about 80% :( ) and see the good in the rest of humanity (and even in those silly people). I'm not saying I have this ability, but it does seem a goal to me that is worth aspiring to.

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I am exzactly the oppisite. I can see the good in certain individuals, but in humanity as a whole, I only see bad. I have no hope in humanity as a whole.

I have really started being something of a misanthope at a very young age. I have always been drawn more to nature and animals than to people, and as early as elementery school I developed the idea that humans were the enemey of the enviroment and of nature.

I went through a phase of being optimistic about humanity and the future around highschool, but those ideals have now been crushed.

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Originally Posted by Dark Muse

I am exzactly the oppisite. I can see the good in certain individuals, but in humanity as a whole, I only see bad. I have no hope in humanity as a whole.

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Don't you know that the whole is the sum of the parts? ;)

Yes, but I dislike more people then I like. And what I basicaly meant was that just becasue I hate humanity as a whole does not mean I hate every single person as an individual, though I am automaticaly prejudged against everyone based on thier being human.

But once in a blue moon there is a rare individual that I see as being better then the massess.

I must say that my philosophy has man as the epitome of creation. I am still in the Renaissance I'm afraid. How can man even appreciate art, music, literature without appreciating the creativity of man. Or man's engenuity and genius. :D

http://invisiblehandinyourpants.file...elangelo-1.jpg

http://www.parstimes.com/spaceimages/man_on_moon.jpg

That's one small step for man, one giant leap for mankind.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xLu0A...eature=related

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Originally Posted by Virgil

I must say that my philosophy has man as the epitome of creation. I am still in the Renaissance I'm afraid. How can man even appreciate art, music, literature without appreciating the creativity of man. Or man's engenuity and genius. :D
http://www.parstimes.com/spaceimages/man_on_moon.jpg

That's one small step for man, one giant leap for mankind.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xLu0A...eature=related

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virgil!!!! that was a BAD example... its pretty much out in the open nowadays that the whole man on the moon thing was a(nother huge) hoax

but instead, how about THIS huge leap:
http://www.crystalinks.com/2001monkey.jpg

http://www.mapsofworld.com/travel-de.../taj-mahal.jpg

http://l.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons7/10.gif

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Originally Posted by weltanschauung

virgil!!!! that was a BAD example... its pretty much out in the open nowadays that the whole man on the moon thing was a(nother huge) hoax

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are you sure that's not a conspiracy theory?

Actually Mythbusters exploded that and man did land on the moon (or is that a conspiracy too????)

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Originally Posted by Delta40

Actually Mythbusters exploded that and man did land on the moon (or is that a conspiracy too????)

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what's Mythbusters?
edit: I agree that having a man land on the moon was not a humanity's most useful endeavour, though.

Ah, I love absurdism! Camus, Kierkegaard, Kafka, where art thou?
I have followed this thread with some enthusiasm, smiled at most responses, frowned at few. Certainly, I would consider myself a bit more of an optimist than a pessimist, and have gotten quite good at it, but I would never call myself a ray of sunshine - I know myself as impatient, difficult to forgive, somewhat materialistic and Hedonistic, and I drink more wine than the soil beneath a grapebush.
It seems easy to slip into a thought that all of the human race seems worthless - the media covers murders, rapes, robberies, but one rarely hears of successful, miraculous births, we obsess of wars, global warming, international relations (or lack thereof), drug warfare, endangered species, poverty and starvation in other countries, animal abuse and abandonment, and how human fuel these, but one often simply shrugs his/her shoulders when two countries previously at war sign a treaty, when Al Gore comes to town teaching of Kyoto, scientists breed panda bears, or when an unsuccessful greyhound gets adopted from the Humane Society by a loving family. Cynicism seems so much easier to breed than optimism; we learn nursery rhymes that reek of happy endings in childhood, then come to literature that does not contain a good plot without an intriguing problem, whether by a hero/ine overcome or not.

Not to sound too stereotypical of 'what I have seen,' but as an RN who works in an intensive care unit, I have encountered many individuals in some impressively high extents of suffering and in their ends, miserable deaths, the endings of long marriages, the endings of motherhood and fatherhood. A former patient of mine, her last words consisted of asking for me, a nurse who had cared for her on multiple admissions. Would my presence have meant anything to her during her last moments, or anything to any patient I have cared for in his/her final hours? Probably, but it never fails to depress me afterwards, such as after an unsuccessful code blue occurs, when a husband of 50-something years sees his wife undergoing chest compressions, defibrillation, and invasive procedures, then regrets never apologizing for an argument they had gotten into the night previous while saying goodbye.

Do we seem entirely worthless? Perhaps, but it depends upon what side of the coin you look, and who you allow to nurture your thoughts (nature vs. nurture); if you overlook the mother feeding her newborn child in the park to see the police failing to stop a man from stealing an elderly woman's purse, then, yes, possibly we seem worthless. If you can see the construction of the Burj Dubai, the training of Lance Armstrong, the successful abolitionist movement of 1863 in the U.S., and the ambulation of a patient you contributed to saving in a cardiopulmonary arrest, you cannot deny some worth.

So long as there is hope and love, there is purpose. There have been great men in history that have made huge impacts on humanity-- some advanced human rights, some advanced peace, and some spread love and forgiveness. Among the great men, have been "evil" men... those that caused wars; that spread fear; that killed a countless number of people. These contraries have always existed, and they shall most likely not cease to exist. I suppose one needs hate to have love... but this is getting off the point.

Whether or not there is an actual purpose to humanity--that can be debated. Religious people will argue that our purpose lies in serving God and so forth, while others might say that we are all living in random chaos, and Nature is both brutal and beautiful; capable of massive destruction, yet also of creation. Regardless of the view, I believe that there is worth in every single person... every person is someone who has potential for hate and for love; for empathy and indifference; for "evil" and compassion. We can learn from every person (whether they commit atrocious or beautiful acts) and what they have done with their potential. Today, someone showed a lot of compassion, and today that person was worth to me more than any material wealth or any hedonistic enjoyment/pleasure/gratification.

The love I feel from those around me offers me a purpose... a hope... and creates value for all of these things.

We have seen the worst of humanity, and we have seen the best of humanity. The knowledge that individuals or groups have produced. Scientific advancements, literature, poetry, amazing architecture, revolution, etc... these are surely beautiful. Even in the midst of suffering, there is always something beautiful. Always something that makes us crave life.

I suppose that in the bigger picture of things, we might just be worthless. Worthless to this planet (or rather we are destroying this planet so we are beyond worthless). But we are here. We will be here until we die out as a species (who knows when that might be?) and so we have to make the best of it. Each person should strive to change the world for the better... to improve... to work for the collective good... FOR HUMANITY. If you don't, then you become part of the problem. And merely complaining about worthlessness entraps you into mediocrity and helplessness. Try to be of value.

PRACTICE UBUNTU

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubuntu)

Nope. Not me. I think the human race is full of worth -- worth is everywhere. This Jack Daniels and spring water that I have right now, for example: it just seems to get more worthwhile with every sip.

And I have two beautiful daughters who show me the value of humanity with every breath -- even when they're driving me crazy.

And nothing beats reading Walden by the lake near our house on a quiet morning. And my phalaenopsis is in bloom -- 9 flowers. I love it.

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Originally Posted by weltanschauung

virgil!!!! that was a BAD example... its pretty much out in the open nowadays that the whole man on the moon thing was a(nother huge) hoax

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What?? Of course it is true. Apollo 11, July 20th, 1969. That was the first time. Then there was six more missions and five more landings on the moon. Hey I used to pay hookey from school so I could stay home and watch on TV. I can't believe there are people who think it was a hoax.

Here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_program

Yes, the moon story is a hoax to keep us from finding out who our true masters are: the lizard people who live under the earth. ;)

Seriously, from my perspective I believe that the actions of one person can make a big difference to the world, for either good or evil, and that there are many more people who make a positive difference to the world than a negative one. I think there's hope for the world (including the natural world) and the human race.
I heard a quote from a wise Japanese guy called Doshin So, and it has been translated from Japanese:
'the person, the person, everything depends upon the quality of the person'.

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Originally Posted by SleepyWitch

are you sure that's not a conspiracy theory?

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blah it doesnt matter, but in any case, are you sure it isnt :p

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Originally Posted by Virgil

What?? Of course it is true. Apollo 11, July 20th, 1969. That was the first time. Then there was six more missions and five more landings on the moon. Hey I used to pay hookey from school so I could stay home and watch on TV. I can't believe there are people who think it was a hoax.

Here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_program

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hey, just for the sake of it, everyone saw these too
http://www.cabiz.net/zolaric/ccposter.jpg



http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...atfight7iu.gif

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Originally Posted by ihavebrownhaira

After reading The Mysterious Stranger it has finally dawned on me how worthless we are as human beings! Kurt Vonnegut emphasized this before his death and he is absolutely right. After all the violence and abuse and war and dirty money and rape and murder and drugs. Shouldn't we just end this? Pretty soon the Earth will be so overpopulated that there will be no more resources for us to consume and destroy. It is sad. I see it everyday. I work a bad job and I live in a bad town and I've traveled and I still see this pain and nonsense. It happens all the time. Every single day. Good things do happen rarely, but usually they get run over. When one lives through a bad childhood I believe ones bull**** sensor begins to run properly and one can take away all the glamor and bull**** and begin to see things for what they really are.

I look in the mirror and i see a pig. I look at my grandmother and i see a pig. Every face I stare into I see a deceitful pig staring back at me. OINK OINK OINK OINK OINK. Some may claim I'm insane, but take the time to think about it. Year after year day after day second after second there is constant pain and war and violence and there is no end in sight! Things have been getting worse even! Now we have bombs that could kill us all in a second if not less! Think about this!

After the holocaust we claimed there would never be so much gruesome killing again, but in the 90's in Africa more than 800,000 people were slayed at one time. It doesn't stop people! It never stops. I see how piggish we are at work and at home and at school and you do too. It does not stop. I will never have children. I will not contribute to this sick experiment.

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Kurt Vonnegut certainly did not emphasize that human beings are worthless.

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Originally Posted by SleepyWitch

what's Mythbusters?
edit: I agree that having a man land on the moon was not a humanity's most useful endeavour, though.

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It's a show which has a team of people and they try to prove true or false various myths... I've only seen it a couple times... like for instance whether or not you could shoot someone down from being hanged by a rope with a gun from that time period, or whether cigarette lighters can explode (they can if you have a whole, whole lot of them together, but then it's not very big)

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Originally Posted by weltanschauung

blah it doesnt matter, but in any case, are you sure it isnt :p

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yes. I'm sure it's a conspiracy theory.

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Originally Posted by Delta40

Actually Mythbusters exploded that and man did land on the moon (or is that a conspiracy too????)

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i bet they exploded indeed http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...tch/sm/doh.gif

hey man, no offense, but a tv show?
come on..
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2.../sh/310981.jpg
think it, speak it, buy it, drink it
read it, vote it!
use it, eat it, hear it, say it
have it, live it, spend it, be it

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Originally Posted by SleepyWitch

yes. I'm sure it's a conspiracy theory.

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good for you :thumbs_up
however...

I have to go with God's opinion of the human race :For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotton Son.............

Now to do that shows that God considers us terribly valuable and worth suffering for.
there is a portion in the Bible, I would have to find it, but I remember when a child reading that humans became so evil and selfish and cruel and murderous and wanton at one point that God'grieved in His heart and was sorry that he had made man. Sorry, but still wanting to redeem us and love us and share his awesome universe with us.
It is the things people do that are depraved and deceitful and cruel and so on that make it seem that mankind is worthless I guess. But when you look at the new born babe, see the innocence and beauty, when someone does a random act of purely unselfish kindness for someone else, then you see what human kind was fashioned to be.
I always remember the story of a priest who was in a German concentration camp and it was the practise to kill a person or more for something to do in a day I suppose. A man was chosen and was terrified and heart broken, for he had family and had hope still......
This priest walked up to the guards and asked to be killed instead and they agreed and forced him to drink something that ate the insides of him , being the nice men they were. That strengthened the others, that act of divine kindness.
So, no I think humankind is very very precious.

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Originally Posted by SleepyWitch

yes. I'm sure it's a conspiracy theory.

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Unfortunately, very basic science proves it wasn't a hoax.
Check out this website.

I am the founder of this thread and I am proud-well I was proud- that I have created this thread, but it has gone too far. Now we are talking about poor television shows and man walking on the moon. We have gone too far. Of course people will continue to go, but out of respect for my misery and out of respect for my having the guts to write such a thread I would like to end it now. I don't believe this will happen and its fine. I no longer care to look at it.

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Originally Posted by BeccaT

Unfortunately, very basic science proves it wasn't a hoax.
Check out this website.

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I think, though I only looked at this thread briefly the other day... Sleepy was saying it's a conspiracy theory that the moon landing was a hoax, and she's saying it was real.