That was hysterical! Thanks Virgil! I so needed a good laugh! Springer's influence everywhere! Do you think Connie approves of this crap? They must really need the money! LMAO.
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That was hysterical! Thanks Virgil! I so needed a good laugh! Springer's influence everywhere! Do you think Connie approves of this crap? They must really need the money! LMAO.
Well here in Australia we have had terrible bushfires as most of you know with terrible loss of life. Our Prime Minsiter (male) was filmed crying this week as he saw the damage and spoke to people that has managed to get out alive. I for one do not believe this was "put on" and I have to say my respect for him went up this week. So it is OK for men to cry and in fact it shows you their human side.
Kevin Rudd is full of ****.
I don't disagree but I have to say the emotion I saw seemed very real to me and I couldn't hrlp but be impressed that he let himself be so exposed in such public glare.Quote:
Originally Posted by limajean
Okay, the testosterone just kicked in here. I only follow one sport religiously - baseball, and I have stuck with the Boston Red Sox through thick and thin (same with the Atlanta Braves, but they have not done well in years). In 2007, when the Red Sox won their second World Series within 3 years, when Jonathan Papelbon threw that last strike to the Colorado Rockies, ending a 4-game sweep . . . yeah, tears come to my eyes just thinking of it. :nod:Quote:
Originally Posted by kilted exile
Oh, Gawd...Quote:
Originally Posted by Virgil
My post was a mere (and feeble) attempt at humour after reading the first option in your poll: "No, never, it violates the rules of masculinity."
Otherwise, I really don't care who cries, where and when. To be honest, I find it rather amusing that we have a thread dedicated to the discussion of "male crying".
I believe any man (and woman) who is comfortable in their masculinity (and femininity) will not have such preconceived / prescribed "rules" as "Thou shall not cry in public."
Crying is just another emotional need; if it is OK to show one's happiness, anger, impatience, annoyance and so on, why not their sadness? When one is happy, they can laugh loudly; when one is sad or frustrated, one can cry too.
The human race is doomed.
:D Well, you're still one tough lady. Sure it's ok to show ones sadness. But how is the question.Quote:
Originally Posted by Scheherazade
:lol: That's right, that's a perfect characterization of a man crying. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by a_little_wisp
Of course it was, & it was very good!Quote:
Originally Posted by Scheherazade
And IT IS the first (and second) law of manhood: "thou shalt not cry"!
Ev'ryone knows that! Or should ...
:crash:
Everybody has to cry. It's a release. Sometimes you just got to. Ever seen Dane Cook's Vicious Circle stand up comedy show? He does a bit on crying. It's on youtube. There's some language but it it's funny:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9MkUpzfsfk
Edit: Oh - I just saw that someone else posted the Dane Cook bit on crying. Oh well - it's okay. There's two links in case one should fail...
& all right: I do cry when watching certain movies, I mean, there are certain movies that, unexpectedly make me cry. Sometimes expectedly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Scheherazade
Human being cries when he's face to face with ... himself, I think. Or with what he isn't, but believes possible to be(come). Or to reach.
Even so, last time it happened when I was among people, I tried to hide the tears. It was tough!
A man doesn't cry!
-x-
Once, I was in a theatre room, and the movie was so exciting (inspiring, somehow, it was a battle scene), that I had to stand up, and go to the side of the room. I did so. I could not be sitting. I had to be in battle position!
(...)
That was funny.
And in some movies I cry (scream) outloud of fun, in battle scenes (LotR). And in others I laughed all the time! (Indiana Jones and the Skull Whatever ...)~
Yeah, tough like an overdone steak.Quote:
Originally Posted by Virgil
Care to name some?Quote:
Originally Posted by librarius_qui
I have seen so many men cry, and never thought it a poor thing. Anyone who cries will have reason to do so, and I believe that connectivity with ones emotions is a valuable thing. How many times have we not been struck by something and wished that tears would roll down our cheeks instead of clutch at our throats and flood us with unreleasable sadness?
Can you keep secrets? :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Scheherazade
I bet this was modeled after you. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Scheherazade
http://www.skillsone.com.au/shared/i...ough_woman.jpg
OH NO! Are you suggesting Scher is old enough to be the model for Rosie the riveter???;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Virgil
:lol: Ok, Papaya, get me in trouble. And once she gets mad at me, I may have to break the rules of masculinity and break down and cry. :bawling:
there is a time when it is ok to weep.
I don't know what I think about this thread...
Of course it's perfectly acceptable and normal for men to cry, but I won't lie- I have no idea what to do with myself when I see a man crying. If a woman cries, it's easy- you put your arms around her. But I'm lost when I see a man cry.
I see it at work, when men have pet's that are sick or if they've just lost a pet, and it's so sad, to see a man cry when his dog dies. It absolutely breaks my heart.
yeah. I have no problem with my hubby crying. Most of the time it's my fault anyway because I made him cry.Quote:
Originally Posted by *Classic*Charm*
But I don't even know what to do with myself when e.g. my boss admits that he has a cold. I don't know what to do when 'tough' guys admit weakness they might be embarrassed if I show that I understood that they've just admitted they are not 100% tough. So I usually just grunt like guys do.
Plus, one can't go hugging random men because they might misunderstand it.
A man cries withQuote:
Originally Posted by *Classic*Charm*
1. beautiful scenes, moments, for instance: a father, when he's told his child was born
2. releef situations he feels he can't do anything about, for instance: a father, when he's told his child was born
3. extreme pain (either physical or psychological/spiritual)
Crying for a man has a lot to do with catarsis.
It's different from women. Men don't stop to cry. Seldom do we cry because of thoughts or feelings. A woman can simply cry, and it's easy for a man, around to understand it, and support her, because we know you cry.
Men get harder and harder, as we grow up. As children, many of us were crying-babies. We cried when we didn't like something, when we were hungry, when we wanted a toy mom said: "no, you'll have to wait for Christmas".
As we grow up, we find out that crying doesn't solve our problems, so, we go in search of something that will solve. (However, we neglect the need of crying, so, grown-up men know they need moments in his daily life to let emotions flow; even if not through tears. And, usually, alone, because of manhood pride.)
Women have different way of thinking. Because you have a different physiology. Your body bleed ... It's scary! When a man bleeds, he faints! It isn't in man's nature to bleed.
So, when a man cries, there's nothing anyone can do about it, but himself. There's no way of supporting it, because he doens't want to be supported, he's just in face of an emotion (so, it's relieef), or a trouble (and so, it's a moment of change ways, or accept defeat), and it's something of himself.
Therefore, women shouldn't worry about it.
That's what I think.
[Aw, forgot that: and we (human beings) also cry of fear.]
Libri#
Alright, man...I admit. I cried once or twice. But I wasn't bawling. It was just a few drops of tears...
Oh, I forgot this, too: men cry in compassion for other people's suffering. Jesus, the one considered messiah by "half" this planet, cried, when he saw a friend of his crying.
What the heck do you do to the poor guy, beat him with a stick? :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by SleepyWitch
(Oh, 'tis true, 'tis true.)Quote:
Originally Posted by librarius_qui
I hate to think what she does to him Virgil, but I know for a fact that she wears Doc Marten boots.Quote:
Originally Posted by Virgil
:D nah, I don't resort to such lowly methods. Psychological cruelty usually does the trick :D Poor hubby.Quote:
Originally Posted by Virgil
Ok I saw this and even though its been a few days since it was posted ( i was away but kind of not!) I have to say - and I need to point out that you are unfortunate to have posted this in one of those rare times when my rampant inner feminist is on the loose! So ..Quote:
Originally Posted by kilted exile
WHAT!!!!??? personally i think noone should cry in public, its just wrong and awkward and yeah... that was sexist *skowl*
Its ok for me for the men to cry. Men who cry are courageous. They are not afraid to show what they really feel.
My husband do cry.
I also saw my twin brother crying.
I already saw many men crying and it doesn't affects their masculinity. In fact, it leads to more understanding about what or how they feel in a certain situation.
I don't quite agree with it.Quote:
Originally Posted by jhonerliz
A man (actually noone thinks) doesn't think about it when he cries. He cries, and that's all.
To hide tears is normal. (& Not only to men ...) There are moments to cry. A wife at his side interfeers less than someone else. It isn't common for a man to cry in the middle of his friends. Unless someone's just died, or something.
However, women are more sensitive to pain. But this isn't the matter in this thread, anyway.~
I do not like public display of emotion in general (from men and women equally). Especially grief. It is something very personal to me.
crying is for the children... soldiers dont cry...
Quote by Chava
I fully agree with this, Chava. Sadness turned inward becomes depression. Women who cry are more likely to divert long periods of depression. Men should take this as an example. They keep everything bottled-up inside and they often harbor resentment or depression. I feel a man who does break down and shed tears occasionally, when the occasion calls for it, such as a death or other dire reasons, is a much healthier individual and more secure for the fact that crying, does not embarrass them. If God didn't wish men to cry, he would have eliminated their tear ducts! Geez, I too, wonder why we even have a thread dedicated to men's crying...it is rather humorous to me.Quote:
I have seen so many men cry, and never thought it a poor thing. Anyone who cries will have reason to do so, and I believe that connectivity with ones emotions is a valuable thing. How many times have we not been struck by something and wished that tears would roll down our cheeks instead of clutch at our throats and flood us with unreleasable sadness?
Whatever your opinion on whether men should cry in public, can we at least stop the pop psychiatry? There is no evidence that holding back emotion publically leads to mental illness. Mental illness is a chemical problem in the brain. It is not this silly "if I hold emotions I will go crazy" canard. If this were the case, then why are not millions of men that do not publically cry mentally ill? Why am I not mentally ill? (No, despite what some might think I'm not :p) Why is my mother, who is a very publically emotional person, on depression medication? By this logic, would Italians, who are probably more openly emotional, less inclined to mental illness than say, Scandinavians, who by stereotype are supposed to be less emotional in public (though I admit I don't know that from personal experience)? Show me the statistics.
And even though a man or woman does not publically display sobbing, doesn't mean they don't let that emotion out in private.
Let's stop with the pop psychiatry.
Whatta ye want from us, Virge??! We're all pop here! hahaha! My graduation's in Latin Language & Literature! :lol: :lol: :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by Virgil
:lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by Virgil
You said it, not me! I do sometimes wonder:goof:.....hahaha. Hey, Virgil, is this outburst directed at me? I am talking mental illness in my post. I merely stated that holding back emotions does lead often to depression; also I was not necessarily talking about public tears, although I see nothing wrong with those. Say you just saw your only child killed or your son came home dead from a war, don't you think it would be acceptable to see a father cry in these instances? Believe me, I have known men who lost sons tragically and would not show a shred of a tear or even emotion; later on they had deep-seeded problems and I can't help but think they never dealt with their feelings towards the tragedy.
Probably because your mother has a stubborn son like you! ;):lol: One would seriously have to do a study; I actually think some have been done so you would just have to research the findings. I don't think this is pop psychiatry - psychiatrists treat with medications and are fully trained physcians. We talking about more about psychological impact on the individual, not about full-blown mental illness. Many people suffer depression everyday - some is just natural to life and some is a true mental disease.Quote:
Why is my mother, who is a very publically emotional person, on depression medication? By this logic, would Italians, who are probably more openly emotional, less inclined to mental illness than say, Scandinavians, who by stereotype are supposed to be less emotional in public (though I admit I don't know that from personal experience)? Show me the statistics.
Agreed; but if circumstances warrant it in public I don't see anything wrong with showing the emotion. Like I said in extreme occurances such as seeing a loved one be killed in front of you, then I think tears are totally necessary. Often on new reports one sees men crying over losing their families during natural disasters. Those tears are very public; I don't see anything unnatural about them or demeaning to the poor man or woman, for that matter.Quote:
And even though a man or woman does not publically display sobbing, doesn't mean they don't let that emotion out in private.
Is that phrase something like your old catch-all, psychobabble? haha We are not talking psychiatry to begin with.Quote:
Let's stop with the pop psychiatry.
:D I have found literature students to be the absolute worst when it comes to pop psychiatry. Perhaps because they deal with characters in books who's psychology is important to understand. But because something is in a novel doesn't make it real.Quote:
Originally Posted by librarius_qui
:D Well, you weren't the only one. Others in the thread have brought it up. Perhaps yours was the most comprehensive statement on the subject.Quote:
Originally Posted by Janine
How do you know that? Where is the evidence for that? Did you learn that in school or did you pick that up in anectdotal conversation? Where's the evidence? How come millions of people who don't publically show emotion are not mentally ill?Quote:
I merely stated that holding back emotions does lead often to depression
I think I voted for rare occaisions. That might be a rare occaision.Quote:
Say you just saw your only child killed or your son came home dead from a war, don't you think it would be acceptable to see a father cry in these instances? Believe me, I have known men who lost sons tragically and would not show a shred of a tear or even emotion; later on they had deep-seeded problems and I can't help but think they never dealt with their feelings towards the tragedy.
That's right, many people suffer depression, and I bet they were no different in displaying emotion that the ones that are depressed. And how do you know which is the cause and the effect? Why do you assume that holding emtion leads to mental illness instead of mental illness leading to holding emotion?Quote:
Probably because your mother has a stubborn son like you! ;):lol: One would seriously have to do a study; I actually think some have been done so you would just have to research the findings. I don't think this is pop psychiatry - psychiatrists treat with medications and are fully trained physcians. We talking about more about psychological impact on the individual, not about full-blown mental illness. Many people suffer depression everyday - some is just natural to life and some is a true mental disease.
Haha, yes!! It's all psychobabble and you know how psychobabble sets me off. :DQuote:
Is that phrase something like your old catch-all, psychobabble? haha We are not talking psychiatry to begin with.
A word on depression:
Apart from the fact that little of the above statement makes sense, I think there's a valid challenge in there, specifically: 'And how do you know which is the cause and the effect?'.Quote:
Originally Posted by Virgil
I think there needs to be a better understanding of depression. Too many people are on anti-depressents when they don't need to be. It's too easy for the doctor to prescribe instead of understand.
I've known 4 people who have suffered with 'true' depression. In all 4 cases they were ordinary people who were faced with, what they felt were, impossible life choices: a man whose wife wanted children and he did not faced with a choice of having children he doesn't want or losing his wife; a man who considers himself (and is) a good father feeling tethered to his disabled daughter facing a life in which he is never free from her or the guilt of, on some level, wanting to be free from her; a man who has to choose between his children and his wife, a woman who has to choose between the life she wants and the life she has, caring for sick parents. In all cases they have been people who have 'coped' but at some point reached that point where life had ground them down completely. My impression is that their brain faced this as a 'computer says no' scenario and simply shut down normal operations. In all cases it was only after acknowledging the true cause of their problem that they started to recover. Depressed people don't cry. Depressed people don't do anything. But often depression starts with self-deception, and in that respect not facing, but rather withholding 'truth' from yourself can lead to depression.
I have some questions:
- why is it okay to laugh raucously in public but not cry?
- why is public crying often greeted with derision or disgust, and not compassion?
- the man who slumps down in the street and cries may have lost himself, the person who passes him by with a sneer - what's their excuse?
- what are you afraid of?
- Is 'image' more important than 'honesty'?
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFifthElement
- why is it okay to laugh raucously in public but not cry?
laughing has a different effect than crying, no doubt of that!
- why is public crying often greeted with derision or disgust, and not compassion?
not always; usually, to tell the truth, when anyone's crying at a public place, he/she is helped, either by compassionate people, or to local civil servants, so, I don't see your point with this question, 5th ...
- the man who slumps down in the street and cries may have lost himself, the person who passes him by with a sneer - what's their excuse?
--
- what are you afraid of?
fear that makes a man cry isn't racional ones, usually; it has to do with facing a moment he thinks he's defeated, he thinks he can't go on, something like; he cries, he thinks, he figures things out, and he goes ahead; when situation isn't that bad (death, relevant loss (job, a lot of money ...), something like), we don't even cry, we simply figure it out, and go ahead; perfectly normal, but not perfectly rational
you won't see a man thinking "I'm going to cry, because of ..."; no, it's something of moment
- Is 'image' more important than 'honesty'?
it depends on the person; man are taught (and NOT by parents, on the contrary ...) not to weep, not to cry; it's "nature" (actually, it's human nature, which is culture ...); effects of this in charater will vary on the person; each one will figure these questions/matters, and learn from them in a way; we hope people learn that being honest is better, but even an honest man may face a very honest moment of trying to hide his tears, because he's ashamed of them, because he is man
so, there's no logic in it; there's culture as well
& it isn't bad; good that men are what we are, and women are what you are, otherwise, how could we get along so well together? :D
:lol: Lib, I love that you answered the questions.
They are more aimed at those who think one shouldn't cry in public.
I disagree with your answer to question 2. In my experience most people walk by. And I did say often not always ;)
I found this statement really interesting:
because I'd say the same is probably true for women, and children.Quote:
Originally Posted by librarius_qui
I wonder, then, if crying is still equated with a lack of power? Women and children are less 'powerful' physically than men therefore the point at which they experience frustration or defeat is lower, or rather it is more common, so they cry more. For a man to cry in public it is a public admission of defeat or powerlessness, hence, perhaps, the reason some have admitting to finding men crying revolting? Why crying is considered somehow reprehensible where laughing (which is equally pointless and, in some cases, quite revolting!) is not?