January / Thriller Reading: The New York Trilogy by Paul Auster

You know, I am finding that there quite a lot of deconstruction regarding this book on the internet, and I'm wading through some of it. Normally, I wouldn't. But this story fascinated me, and I like the fact that it can be read just as it is - as a really weird and convoluted quasi-detective story - or you can jump into all the deconstruction and think about all that.

As for our speculations about who the real author of the story is, papayahead, my inclination at this point is to say that the narrator who announces himself at the very end is the author, and that he knows everything he knows because he made up the story, plain and simple, and his revealing himself simply acts as one more layer to the already complex layering of characters in it.

I will say I am enjoying the New York elements to the novel. Everything is real as far as I can tell, the newspaper, the luncheontte type of eateries, the egg creams (do people outside of New York even know what an egg cream is?) the baseball players and events. I swear I can remember that game where Dave Kingman made that error to lose that Mets game, but Kingman probably made lots of errors to lose games. :lol: Judging by the ballplayers mentioned, I think the novel is set in the early 1980's, possibly 1982. Well, I just loved this paragraph, enough for me to take the time to quote it.

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New York was an inexhaustible space, a labyrinth of endless steps, and no matter how far he walked, no matter how well he came to know its neighborhoods and streets, it always left him with the feeling of being lost. Lost, not only in the city, but within himself as well. Each time he took a walk, he felt as though he were leaving himself behind, and by giving himself up to the movements of the streets, by reducing himself to a seeing eye, he was able to escape the obligation to think, and this, more than anything else, brought him a measure of peace, a salutary emptiness within. The world was outside him, around him, before him, and the speed with which it kept changing made it impossible for him to dwell on any one thing for very long. Motion was of the essence, the act of putting one foot in front of the other and allowing himself to follow the drift of his own body. By wandering aimlessly, all places became equal, and it no longer mattered where he was. On his best walks, he was able to feel that he was nowhere. And this, finally, was all he ever asked of things: to be nowhere. New York was the nowhere he had built around himself, and he realized that he had no intention of ever leaving it again.

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Besides capturing that New York feeling of a labyrinth, one I've known quite well, I think this paragraph resonates with the themes that carry the novel forward. Of course i've only read a quarter of the way through at this point, but I do think that's a significant section.

As I said in my previous post, in my opinion the Don Quixote's authorship problem could be a hint how to solve this one. What if the person who actually find the manuscript is Quinn himself? I thought so for a while, but I remembered that if it was so, Auster would have recognised him when they met for the first time. Also, this is too obvious. Judging by Don Quixote's story I think maybe we shouldn't take it so seriously. For one think how comes that the check Virginia Stillman gave Quinn is a bad one, or that someone called Paul Auster the private eye from a detective agency that actually does not exist? Actully, from the beginning of the story the reader knows something is wrong and that can be simply explained if we consider this mistakes for something made with a certain reason.
This explanation of course is highly unsatisfying, but I can't stop these things are connected in some way and the Don Quixote problem is important for the story.

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Originally Posted by NickAdams

I finished Ghost, but have no comments at the moment.



Very nice. I still don't understand why Quinn decided to live in the alley across from Stillman's building, rather than go to their apartment to speak to Virginia; I know he thought it was the universe trying to prevent him from dropping the case, but ... why?:confused:

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City of Glass / why Quinn decided to live in the alley :

I think Quinn simply had a nervous breakdown, he was already pretty much depressed and alienated to start with. And then he wasn't really a detective and yet he decided to embark on an obscure venture that was too dangerous and complicated for his fragile state of mind. I think he really lost it after his encounter with Paul Auster and his family; that was too much for him. It reminded him of what he had lost. Soon afterwards he started interpreting his situation in a rather odd way, that it was Fate that the phone was always busy at Virginia Stillman's appartment (see end of Chapter 11).

I agree with bouquin. This is a story of a man who, through the course of the story's action, we watch completely lose an identity that wasn't all that stable to begin with. By the end, he is literally nonexistent.

As for the author of the story, I still think there's no trick to it. (I agree that the Don Quixote reference must be meaningful, but not sure what that meaning is.) I think the story is written by an omniscient narrator, who does not reveal himself until the end. Until that point, we think we are reading a third person limited narrative, but we aren't.

On to Ghosts. The Theme of watching, identity and words arise again. Naming everyone after colours is a good touch.

It's not as good as City of Glass but very interesting.

Has anyone read Walden by Thoreau? Are there themes linking it to Ghosts?

I am going to do some research on this Thoreau question. I do at this point know that one of the other influences in Auster is Emersonian transcendentalism. So I'll start there.

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Originally Posted by papayahed

Exactly, how does the narrator know anything prior to Quinn writing in the notebook? or that Quinn "tended to feel out of place in his own skin". Unless Quinn wrote this in the notebook.

But then who is feeding Quinn? Is someone feeding Quinn? Has Quinn gone into his own world like the homeless people he desribes? Quinn has never known who he really is, we've already mentioned William Wilson and Max Work but he makes mention early on of friends giving him clothes when he was just starting out and what about claiming to be Auster? (And how twisted (yet cool) is it to have a character in the book by the same name as the author? )

Is this a continuation of Stillman Sr's experiment? Could the Stillmans have made up the whole thing to experiment with Quinn? Peter started out with no contact with others and is brought into society the reverse is true of Quinn he was brought with normal human contact but slowly reverts into himself.

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We can perhaps safely presume that the things that the narrator tells us was all written down by Quinn in his red notebook. Initially, Quinn limited his entries to his impressions of the Stillmans and his detective work. But at some point, as he started losing control, there was a shift and he began writing about things more personal. So it is highly likely that he eventually got around to telling his own story right from the beginning. Where I am more doubtful is with regards Quinn's reliability. He was hurtling into a serious mental breakdown so who knows, his impressions and recordings could be more the product of his own deranged imagination (including the food that was mysteriously provided for him at the Stillman appartment) rather than factual.

Actually, the whole book feels like an exploration in American literature, or perhaps a literature degree. Some big names in there: Poe, Whitman, Thoreau, Hawthorne.

Virgil, I don't know what egg creams are - can you enlighten me?


Ooh, sorry I looked it up. Did you know the egg cream was invented by Louis Auster? Freaky :p

Based on my research, the importance of Thoreau is that both Blue and Black are, like Thoreau during his Walden experiment, in a state of self-exile. Black chooses this, and then forces Blue to do the same by making him shadow Black's every move. Walden is an experiment in self-reliance outside of society. Both men are basically locked in a room, alone.

Apparently, Auster himself has said of the story that "Ghosts" is dominated by "the spirit of Thoreau... Walden Pond in the heart of the city."

And oh, I have not had an egg cream in probably forty-odd years! My Grandmother used to make them for me all the time. My grandparents always had a seltzer dispenser thing in the fridge. I think it had a black top.

How about Charlotte Russe? Another childhood memory.

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Originally Posted by TheFifthElement;656842[B

Virgil[/B], I don't know what egg creams are - can you enlighten me?


Ooh, sorry I looked it up. Did you know the egg cream was invented by Louis Auster? Freaky :p

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Oh my God, that is no coincidence. Auster, the author, had to know that an Auster invented the egg cream.

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An egg cream is a classic beverage consisting of chocolate syrup, milk, and seltzer (soda water), probably dating from the late 19th century, and is especially associated with Brooklyn, home of its alleged inventor, candy store owner Louis Auster.[1][2] [3]It contains neither eggs nor cream. Some enthusiasts insist that an egg cream must be made with Fox's U-Bet, a chocolate syrup manufactured by H. Fox & Company[citation needed].

The egg cream is almost exclusively a fountain drink; although there have been several attempts to bottle it, none has been wholly successful, as its fresh taste and characteristic head requires mixing of the ingredients just before drinking. The drink can be compared to a traditional ice cream soda, though it contains no ice cream.

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egg_cream

This is a very New York thing. :) Actually I'm afraid it's disappearing. Or I haven't seen any around any longer. Could be me. I haven't had one in decades.

Oh I had to laugh when he's on the subway and a deaf mute panhandles. I remember those guys on the subway all the time. It was a frequent occurence that a deaf mute would hand out the whole subway car some item and then coe around and ask for a donation or collect them back. I don't remember pens with flags like in the book. I remember something that was a handy item that had deaf sign language signals on it.

It just occurred to me that if this novel is set in the early 1980's, then that was when I did the most commuting in my life through New York. That was when I was a college student and commutted an hour up from Brooklyn to Harlem to school, not too far actually from Quinn's apartment.

I haven't seen NickAdams around lately. Nick, are those deaf mutes still panhandling on the subway?

I will read this when I can get around to it. I am sooo busy writing and reading some other things right now to read this. Will comment later on it too.
Cat

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Originally Posted by Alexei

TheFifthElement I like your ideas on Quinn/Willson/Work trio, but I have a bit different theory. I agree the story is greatly related with the problem of self identification, but I think this is going even beyond the aforementioned trio. I think all the characters are actually various interpretations on Quinn, in some way they all are Quinn and Quinn is all of them. In different moments in the story he becomes or may be it is better to say he is strongly associated with everyone of them and this is a constant process. Actually, he is never simply Daniel Quinn. In the beginning he is also William Willson and Max Work and later he becomes also Paul Auster. We will see that the other Auster is another version of Quinn, since he is what the main character would have been if his wife and child weren't dead. Then we have the Petter Stilmans. This similarity comes up in the end of the story, when in the dark room Quinn becomes both Peter Stillman (there he treflects mainly on the things he heard from him, he actually starts thinking ih Stillman's manner) and Petter Stillman junior (the conditions in the dark room are the main similarity here. Still, as you said there is some similarity between them in the phrase 'that is not my name'. In the case of Quinn it is easy to interpret it, but when it comes to PSJ it's different; I think he still thinks in the manner and with the words that he was used to when he was in the dark room, so I suppose he has his name, given by himself in the language he had in the dark.) All these characters are some personalisation of certain stages of Quinn's personality changes.

There is something else which I find interesting and important - the theory on Don Quixote. I think it is something like a suggestion how this book it is supposed or at least could be read. When you think about it actually Paul Auster (I mean the author here not anyone of the Paul Austers in the story) is also trying to pass the book as something that isn't fiction. Well, not exactly at the manner Cervantes does, but still there is something like it. In this manner of thought the initials the characters share should be strongly related. I haven't thought it through, so I can't say what exactly this scheme will mean if we use it on "City of Glass", but I think there is some link between them. Any ideas?

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Hi Alexei, for some reason I missed these comments earlier.

Yes! I like your thinking. Have you given any thought to the purpose of the second Peter Stillman snr? I wondered if that was a red herring or a point to elucidate the point you've made above.

I finished City of Glass this morning. I think there's a lot of 'telling' in the Auster chapter, particularly with reference to Don Quixote and the link between these two books. Specifically these passages:

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'And yet he goes on to say,' Quinn added, 'that Cid Hamete Benegeli's is the only true version of Don Quixote's story. All the other versions are frauds, written by imposters. He makes a great point of insisting that everything in the book really happened.'
'Exactly. Because the book after all is an attack on the dangers of the make-believe. He couldn't very well offer a work of the imagination to do that could he? He had to claim that it was real.'
'Still, I've always suspected that Cervantes devoured those old romances. You can't hate something so violently unless a part of you also loves it. In some sense, Don Quixote was just a stand-in for himself.'

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Note that it was said in the beginning that Quinn read stacks of detective novels.
And this passage too:

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'That's the most interesting part of all. In my opinion, Don Quixote was conducting an experiment. He wanted to test the gullibility of his fellow men. Would it be possible to stand up before the world and with the utmost conviction spew out lies and nonsense? To say that windmills were knights, that a barber's basin was a helmet, that puppets were real people? Would it be possible to persuade others to agree with what he said, even though they did not believe him? In other words, to what extent would people tolerate blasphemies if they gave them amusement? The answer is obvious isn't it? To any extent. For the proof is that we still read the book. It remains highly amusing to us. Ans that's finally all anyone wants out of a book - to be amused.'

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And then you find in City of Glass that the 'narrator' goes to great pains to present this as a true account. Then I wonder, if the whole question Auster (the character) raises over the authorship of Don Quixote is, in truth, a question over the authorship of City of Glass. Is Daniel Quinn, Don Quixote? From what I have read of Don Quixote, that is not his real name, he adopts the name Quixote when his delusions prompt him to take on the role of knight errant. So Daniel Quinn is Don Quixote, who has read so many detective fiction novels that he deludes himself into thinking he can be the real thing. He adopts the name Paul Auster for the role, and goes out to have a series of bizarre, absurd adventures that suspend belief. A man who so wholly deludes himself that he gives up his entire life to become a fiction character in a novel?

I also noticed that the original lead to the Paul Auster detective agency came from the retired policeman husband of the nurse, Mrs Saavedra. His name is Michael, the Spanish version of which would be Miguel. Who is the author of Don Quixote: Miguel De Cervantes Saavedra!

Ack! I have library issues and have to break off reading TNYT to read As I Lay Dying before it's due back. Will pick up in a few days, hopefully. Currently part way through Ghosts - I wondered about the stories he mentions: the murdered child, the skiing man who discovers his own father, the engineer who constructed the Brooklyn Bridge. Is there a point to these stories?

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Originally Posted by TheFifthElement

And then you find in City of Glass that the 'narrator' goes to great pains to present this as a true account. Then I wonder, if the whole question Auster (the character) raises over the authorship of Don Quixote is, in truth, a question over the authorship of City of Glass. Is Daniel Quinn, Don Quixote? From what I have read of Don Quixote, that is not his real name, he adopts the name Quixote when his delusions prompt him to take on the role of knight errant. So Daniel Quinn is Don Quixote, who has read so many detective fiction novels that he deludes himself into thinking he can be the real thing. He adopts the name Paul Auster for the role, and goes out to have a series of bizarre, absurd adventures that suspend belief. A man who so wholly deludes himself that he gives up his entire life to become a fiction character in a novel?

I also noticed that the original lead to the Paul Auster detective agency came from the retired policeman husband of the nurse, Mrs Saavedra. His name is Michael, the Spanish version of which would be Miguel. Who is the author of Don Quixote: Miguel De Cervantes Saavedra!

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City of Glass : the narrator

Surely the narrator himself realizes that Quinn's story is so strange that it could come across as implausible, far-fetched -- thus the need for him now and again to underline its veracity and reliability. I personally do not attach much importance to the identity of the narrator. What surprised me though was that he should turn up suddenly in the first person at the last page. I think it was clever of Paul Auster (the author) to have found roles for himself and his family in his own work and to use names to link the characters to one another, like Daniel Quinn - Daniel Auster, Peter Stillman Sr. - Jr. -Peter Quinn, Michael Saavedra - Miguel Cervantes, etc. It makes me think of those mirrors that reflect an image on and on, further and further - probably one explanation for the story's title.

Fanshawe has returned!:D

I want to avoid giving too much away, but this is a book I will be reading again. I will put the book aside for now and read Poe, Thoreau, Whitman, Melville, the others mentioned and finish Don Quijote.

The Locked Room:
Does anybody else see a connection between the work of Fanshawe and Joyce, in terms of stylistic progression?

I will post the photos once I upload them.;)

Spoiler!!!

This reminds me of Mulholland Drive, I know it was published before, but I think the approach needed to interpret it is similar. The similarity between the red notebook and blue box is interesting.

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Originally Posted by Virgil

Actually if the three stories are not interlinked, I would not have to read all three. :idea:

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I think all three must be read for complete understanding.

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Originally Posted by Virgil

I haven't seen NickAdams around lately. Nick, are those deaf mutes still panhandling on the subway?

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I haven't come across a panhandling deaf mute in over a year, but other classes of panhandlers remain.;)

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Originally Posted by NickAdams

Fanshawe has returned!:D

I want to avoid giving too much away, but this is a book I will be reading again. I will put the book aside for now and read Poe, Thoreau, Whitman, Melville, the others mentioned and finish Don Quijote.

The Locked Room:
Does anybody else see a connection between the work of Fanshawe and Joyce, in terms of stylistic progression?

I will post the photos once I upload them.;)

Spoiler!!!

This reminds me of Mulholland Drive, I know it was published before, but I think the approach needed to interpret it is similar. The similarity between the red notebook and blue box is interesting.

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The surrealism, the absurdity of it all, the loneliness and self-doubts of the principal characters, the wandering in the streets and the hiding somehow remind me of Notes from the Underground and Gogol's The Nose and The Coat.

I just finished City of Glass. I am surprised that I actually like the story because of its absurdity and strangeness.
Men are sociable creatures, even if some prefer solitude and being alone more than others. Perhaps we don't recognise the madness in ourselves, so having someone around who will point out whether our obsession has become craziness, could stop a person from going completely insane or schizophrenic.
All the discussions on names and how they are related are very interesting. Does Virginia in Virginia Stillman mean anything ?

I'm back in after the quickest reading of As I Lay Dying in living history! OK, probably not :D

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Originally Posted by bouquin

City of Glass : the narrator

Surely the narrator himself realizes that Quinn's story is so strange that it could come across as implausible, far-fetched -- thus the need for him now and again to underline its veracity and reliability. I personally do not attach much importance to the identity of the narrator. What surprised me though was that he should turn up suddenly in the first person at the last page. I think it was clever of Paul Auster (the author) to have found roles for himself and his family in his own work and to use names to link the characters to one another, like Daniel Quinn - Daniel Auster, Peter Stillman Sr. - Jr. -Peter Quinn, Michael Saavedra - Miguel Cervantes, etc. It makes me think of those mirrors that reflect an image on and on, further and further - probably one explanation for the story's title.

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I think the same can be said of Don Quixote, certainly from what I have read.

I agree, the name links seem very calculated.

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Originally Posted by NickAdams

Fanshawe has returned!:D

I want to avoid giving too much away, but this is a book I will be reading again. I will put the book aside for now and read Poe, Thoreau, Whitman, Melville, the others mentioned and finish Don Quijote.

The Locked Room:
Does anybody else see a connection between the work of Fanshawe and Joyce, in terms of stylistic progression?

I will post the photos once I upload them.;)

Spoiler!!!

This reminds me of Mulholland Drive, I know it was published before, but I think the approach needed to interpret it is similar. The similarity between the red notebook and blue box is interesting.

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I came out of my first reading of this book wanting to do exactly as you've mentioned! I'm still resolved to read Don Quixote all the way through ( I started but didn't finish!) and I have Walden to read and a Hawthorne collection as well.

I never understood Mulholland Drive! Please explain it to me Nick :D

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Originally Posted by TheFifthElement

Ack! I have library issues and have to break off reading TNYT to read As I Lay Dying before it's due back. Will pick up in a few days, hopefully. Currently part way through Ghosts - I wondered about the stories he mentions: the murdered child, the skiing man who discovers his own father, the engineer who constructed the Brooklyn Bridge. Is there a point to these stories?

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Ghosts : the side stories/anecdotes

In City of Glass we read that in a good mystery story there is nothing wasted, no sentence, no word that is not significant... Since everything seen or said, even the slightest, most trivial thing, can bear a connection to the outcome of the story, nothing must be overlooked. Everything becomes essence ...

Unless I'm missing something the side anecdotes seem not to bear any importance to the main story itself. Perhaps what the author wants to say is that Ghosts and the 2 other novellas are not your usual, run-of-the mill detective stories?

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Originally Posted by TheFifthElement

I came out of my first reading of this book wanting to do exactly as you've mentioned! I'm still resolved to read Don Quixote all the way through ( I started but didn't finish!) and I have Walden to read and a Hawthorne collection as well.

I never understood Mulholland Drive! Please explain it to me Nick :D

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I need to finish Quijote too; I stopped reading after the first book, but I think I will start from the beginning because I don't remember much.

In the last third of the film, after the camera goes into the blue box, we see a beaten down Betty who is actually Diane. I believe the last third to be reality and the key to the film. Diane is the central character and there isn't a scene without her during the last third, which is not true for the rest of the film. The first two thirds seems to be a hopeful fantasy where Diane is talented and the world loves her, including her ex-lover. The Justin Theroux character who seduces Diane lover finds his wife an adulteress in Diane's dream and is tormented by executives (which Diane finds as pleasing justice).

I think the same thing is true for the Trilogy; not that it's a dream, but where the "real story begins" is the material used for the first two books. Daniel Quinn the detective is recasted as a detective writer who gets drawn into that world. The Stillman that beats him becomes both Stillman the younger and older. The contents Fanshawe's confusing red notebook becomes the the material for Stillman's language. Then there's Dark. There is a parallel between the final meeting of Blue and White and the final meeting with Fanshawe. I think theme, above all else, is what is relevant. I don't think the book defies interpretation, but comprehension is better felt than explained.

The effect, to me, is what Pound said about poetry, "... language charged with mean," these are characters charged with meaning and although there are numerous external allusions, on the second read we see that the books have morphed into self-reference. A very interesting book.

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Originally Posted by Thespian1975

On to Ghosts. The Theme of watching, identity and words arise again. Naming everyone after colours is a good touch.

It's not as good as City of Glass but very interesting.

Has anyone read Walden by Thoreau? Are there themes linking it to Ghosts?

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Ghosts vs. City of Glass

The plot of Ghosts is not as intricate as City of Glass and I found the story less chilling - perhaps because of the greater chance of a positive ending as far as the principal character Blue is concerned.

What differences do you find among Quinn, Blue and Fanshawe's boyhood friend?

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Originally Posted by NickAdams

I think theme, above all else, is what is relevant. I don't think the book defies interpretation, but comprehension is better felt than explained.

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I completely agree with Nick. My own supplementary reading has not been of sources quoted within the novellas themselves, but of contemporary deconstruction of the book. Interpretations abound, but the themes of self and other/ search for and loss of identity seem to be a common thread.

But had I read nothing about it at all - which is how most of the public no doubt read it, after all - I still would have really liked this book.

Thespian, as for the linkage between "Ghosts" and Walden: as I said in my earlier post Auster himself has said of the story that "Ghosts" is dominated by "the spirit of Thoreau... Walden Pond in the heart of the city."

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Originally Posted by NickAdams

Fanshawe has returned!:D

I want to avoid giving too much away, but this is a book I will be reading again. I will put the book aside for now and read Poe, Thoreau, Whitman, Melville, the others mentioned and finish Don Quijote.

The Locked Room:
Does anybody else see a connection between the work of Fanshawe and Joyce, in terms of stylistic progression?

I will post the photos once I upload them.;)

Spoiler!!!

This reminds me of Mulholland Drive, I know it was published before, but I think the approach needed to interpret it is similar. The similarity between the red notebook and blue box is interesting.

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Yes, I want to do the same. When I finished the trilogy the first time I read it I started reading Thoreau, now I am starting with Withman (well, I wanted to read his poems since I read Cunningham's "Specimen Days", so this reading isn't only Auster inspired :D). Later I plan to move on Hawthorne and Poe, he talks about them in other of his books, too.

I wanted to watch MD for a long time, so this seems a good reason to do it. It will take me some time to do it since I am really busy now, but I'll see it and I'll tell you what I think, ok? :)

bouquin, I'll check your associations, too. Unfortunately, I don't have the time for reading Dostoevsky right now, but I can handle Gogol quite easily.

TheFifthElement, I know you mentioned the title of the Hawthorne's work they were talking about in "Ghosts", but I can't find the post now. Can you tell me once again, please :blush: I really want to read it, it's a good excuse to read some more Hawthorne :D

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Originally Posted by bouquin

Unless I'm missing something the side anecdotes seem not to bear any importance to the main story itself. Perhaps what the author wants to say is that Ghosts and the 2 other novellas are not your usual, run-of-the mill detective stories?

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Actually I think they have. They don't contribute to the plot line directly, but they seem kind of important for the meaning of the whole thing. I don't know if you remember, but when the disguised as a bagger Blue is having conversation with Black, they exchange a few words about the authors and finally they say that the writters are the ghosts that hunt them. I think this isn't relevant only when it comes to the authors and these stories are the stories of the New York ghosts.

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Originally Posted by Paige19

Thespian, as for the linkage between "Ghosts" and Walden: as I said in my earlier post Auster himself has said of the story that "Ghosts" is dominated by "the spirit of Thoreau... Walden Pond in the heart of the city."

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I agree with this. I don't think there are some direct references, but the atmosphere is similar. Still Black is living in some voluntary isolation, too. I think in some way Blue is the one who writes Black's Walden.

Alexei, I agree with you. It is not a matter of literary references, but of enforced isolation from society that creates the Walden parallel. How clever of Auster to portray this process of ever-increasing detachment as happening within the most "civilized" of settings - a huge city.

But I think it is Black who forces Blue into this situation. I think the story is about Blue's "Walden" experience, an experience engineered by Black.

I'm afraid my reading has slowed down. Not because of the book, the book is very engaing. I will have to catch up and then look through these posts.

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Originally Posted by Paige19

Alexei, I agree with you. It is not a matter of literary references, but of enforced isolation from society that creates the Walden parallel. How clever of Auster to portray this process of ever-increasing detachment as happening within the most "civilized" of settings - a huge city.

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Yes, this contrast of environment is definitely good idea. But I wonder if this doesn't somehow change the end of the experience. Being a isolated in the city and in the woods makes the whole thing totally different. Both times we have it's an act of free will, but while the guy living in the woods becomes a hermit of a kind (this means the isolation isn't an end itself, but a mean for getting to the end chosen), the isolation in the city, meaning amongst lots of other people makes it an end, it is isolation for the sake of it, or at least this is the most common case. On the other hand the Christianity has actually come up with such thing as city hermits, but it is a rather obscure medieval phenomenon and I doubt Auster consider it while writing the story.

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But I think it is Black who forces Blue into this situation. I think the story is about Blue's "Walden" experience, an experience engineered by Black.

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That's an interesting theory, actually a brilliant one :D I will consider it carefully, because "Walden" experience (I like the sound of that :D) being forced on someone seems a bit problematic to me :lol:

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Originally Posted by Virgil

I'm afraid my reading has slowed down. Not because of the book, the book is very engaing. I will have to catch up and then look through these posts.

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Don't worry, Virgil, take your time. I am sure we are going to take as long as we can to discuss this one. It's like some abyss of interlinked hidden meanings. So there's plenty of time to catch up later. From now on I will signify if there is some spoilers in my posts. I am sorry if you've stumbled on some, I usually forget to make some sign about spoilers ahead.

The narrator/author publishes a The Locked room, along with the other two stories, which includes infidelity and him keeping Fanshawe's letter a secret; how does his wife react?!

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Originally Posted by bouquet

What differences do you find among Quinn, Blue and Fanshawe's boyhood friend?

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I'll have to think about that ...

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Originally Posted by Paige19

But had I read nothing about it at all - which is how most of the public no doubt read it, after all - I still would have really liked this book.

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I would have too. Having to read the synopsis of each nominee is the only thing I dislike about voting. I would like to read a book with out knowing anything about it, but I'm too picky to allow it.

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Originally Posted by Alexei

Yes, I want to do the same. When I finished the trilogy the first time I read it I started reading Thoreau, now I am starting with Withman (well, I wanted to read his poems since I read Cunningham's "Specimen Days", so this reading isn't only Auster inspired :D). Later I plan to move on Hawthorne and Poe, he talks about them in other of his books, too.

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Whitman has been on my shelf for some time and this will be the year I read him. I love the chamber pot.

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Originally Posted by Alexei

TheFifthElement, I know you mentioned the title of the Hawthorne's work they were talking about in "Ghosts", but I can't find the post now. Can you tell me once again, please :blush: I really want to read it, it's a good excuse to read some more Hawthorne :D

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I'm not sure if it's the work referenced in Ghosts, but Nathaniel Hawthorne's first novel was called Fanshawe aka the elusive character in The Locked Room. Interesting story about this on Wiki:

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Fanshawe is a novel written by American author Nathaniel Hawthorne. It was his first published work, which he published anonymously in 1828.

Fanshawe was based on Hawthorne's experiences as an undergraduate at Bowdoin College in the early 1820s. He had written successful short stories before, but this was his first attempt at creating a novel. Hawthorne published the romance himself, and it was largely unnoticed. After its commercial failure, he burned the unsold copies: "Later all the copies that could be obtained were destroyed. A dozen years after his death a copy was found and the tale reissued by James R. Osgood & co." (quote cf. N.E. Brown, Bibl. of Nathaniel Hawthorne, Boston and New York, 1905) The novel was so rare and Hawthorne was so secretive about his early attempt at a novel that after his death his wife Sophia insisted her husband had never written a novel with that title, despite being shown a copy.

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So, Hawthorne's wife was called Sophia!

Fanshawe is available on Lit-net here:http://www.online-literature.com/hawthorne/fanshawe/

I have managed to track down the story referenced in Ghosts (thank you Google!). Called Wakefield, and you can read it here: http://www.online-literature.com/hawthorne/156/

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Originally Posted by Paige19

Alexei, I agree with you. It is not a matter of literary references, but of enforced isolation from society that creates the Walden parallel. How clever of Auster to portray this process of ever-increasing detachment as happening within the most "civilized" of settings - a huge city.

But I think it is Black who forces Blue into this situation. I think the story is about Blue's "Walden" experience, an experience engineered by Black.

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Yes, I agree with that.

The Locked-Room genre is a sub-genre of Mystery and we all know who wrote one of the most well known ones ... Poe.

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Originally Posted by TheFifthElement

I
Fanshawe is available on Lit-net here:http://www.online-literature.com/hawthorne/fanshawe/

I have managed to track down the story referenced in Ghosts (thank you Google!). Called Wakefield, and you can read it here: http://www.online-literature.com/hawthorne/156/

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The New York Trilogy is a deceptive little bugger. There are clearly 308 pages between the covers and yet it goes on: William Wilson, Don Quijote, Walden and now Wakefield and Fanshawe.:p

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Originally Posted by Paige19

Alexei, I agree with you. It is not a matter of literary references, but of enforced isolation from society that creates the Walden parallel. How clever of Auster to portray this process of ever-increasing detachment as happening within the most "civilized" of settings - a huge city.

But I think it is Black who forces Blue into this situation. I think the story is about Blue's "Walden" experience, an experience engineered by Black.

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I agree with your observation on the detachment-big city paradox. As it says on chapter 1 of City of Glass:
New York was an inexhaustible space, a labyrinth of endless steps, and no matter how far he walked, no matter how well he came to know its neighborhoods and streets, it always left him with the feeling of being lost. Lost, not only in the city, but within himself as well. Each time he took a walk, he felt as though he were leaving himself behind ... By wandering aimlessly, all places became equal and it no longer mattered where he was. On his best walks, he was able to feel that he was nowhere... New York was the nowhere he had built around himself ...

I also tend to concur with the idea that it is Black who sets-up Blue to spy on him, that Black is conducting some sort of experiment with Blue as his subject.

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Originally Posted by bouquin

I agree with your observation on the detachment-big city paradox. As it says on chapter 1 of City of Glass:
New York was an inexhaustible space, a labyrinth of endless steps, and no matter how far he walked, no matter how well he came to know its neighborhoods and streets, it always left him with the feeling of being lost. Lost, not only in the city, but within himself as well. Each time he took a walk, he felt as though he were leaving himself behind ... By wandering aimlessly, all places became equal and it no longer mattered where he was. On his best walks, he was able to feel that he was nowhere... New York was the nowhere he had built around himself ...

I also tend to concur with the idea that it is Black who sets-up Blue to spy on him, that Black is conducting some sort of experiment with Blue as his subject.

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Black is definitely White. Auster gives us a clue when Black orders a black&white. It says in there somewhere that Black hires Blue so that he, Black, can have purpose.

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Originally Posted by NickAdams

The narrator/author publishes a The Locked room, along with the other two stories, which includes infidelity and him keeping Fanshawe's letter a secret; how does his wife react?!

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That's quite interesting indeed. But this isn't the only strange thing we've seen when it comes to the problem with authorship. These mysteries turned out rather difficult to solve and I start to think they are supposed to be against all logic. If this is the case I think they are more or less irrelevant to the more important problems posited by the stories.

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Whitman has been on my shelf for some time and this will be the year I read him. I love the chamber pot.

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Hahah, Yes, it sure caught my attention. I bought "Leaves of Grass" on Saturday and I've started reading it, but I have to admit I've just passed the introduction :blush:

TheFifthElement, thank you for the info and for the links. It's very nice of you digging all this information. I owe you a favour ;) I think I will postpone the reading of "Fanshawe" for a while, bur I will try to read "Wakefield" till the end of the week. Same goes for "William Wilson". At least they are short, but this pile of additional reading gets bigger and bigger every day :D I don't think I can keep up :(

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Originally Posted by NickAdams

The New York Trilogy is a deceptive little bugger. There are clearly 308 pages between the covers and yet it goes on: William Wilson, Don Quijote, Walden and now Wakefield and Fanshawe.:p

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Tell me about it :D:p At least I've read Don Quixote. Still there are some additional reading in this direction too. I am trying to get to an essay on it written by José Ortega y Gasset for ages. I've heard his interpretation is quite interesting and more or less out of the box. Probably it's irrelevant for this discussion but at least it will bring me back to the atmosphere of the book. By the way, if we start thinking for Don Quixote in the way suggested by the fictional Auster, doesn't Don Quixote remind you of Hamlet? This whole madness and testing the others thing?

I finished The City of Glass last night and I'll have to go up the thread and look over comments. I really enjoyed it, but I'm not sure what to think of the ending. Those last two chapters seem to come from nowhere. Do they fit? I need to ponder this a little. :D

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Originally Posted by Alexei

That's quite interesting indeed. But this isn't the only strange thing we've seen when it comes to the problem with authorship. These mysteries turned out rather difficult to solve and I start to think they are supposed to be against all logic. If this is the case I think they are more or less irrelevant to the more important problems posited by the stories.

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Yes, but I have to assume she leaves him, because the narrator hints at a negative outcome, which I don't believe refers to the his incounter with Fanshawe.

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Originally Posted by Alexei

Tell me about it :D:p At least I've read Don Quixote. Still there are some additional reading in this direction too. I am trying to get to an essay on it written by José Ortega y Gasset for ages. I've heard his interpretation is quite interesting and more or less out of the box. Probably it's irrelevant for this discussion but at least it will bring me back to the atmosphere of the book. By the way, if we start thinking for Don Quixote in the way suggested by the fictional Auster, doesn't Don Quixote remind you of Hamlet? This whole madness and testing the others thing?

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I would have to think about the Hamlet connection more closely, but the José Ortega y Gasset sounds worth a look. Where kind I find it?

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Originally Posted by Virgil

I finished The City of Glass last night and I'll have to go up the thread and look over comments. I really enjoyed it, but I'm not sure what to think of the ending. Those last two chapters seem to come from nowhere. Do they fit? I need to ponder this a little. :D

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I fond the last two chapters completely irrational and seems as if he went mad before he went mad. Why didn't he visit the apartment? I think City of Glass and Ghost are thematic explorations of the events in The Locked Room. I think the story revolves more around theme than plot. I think that is where my initial confusion spawned from. I expected the emphasis to be on on plot since this is a Detective/Thriller/Mystery novel. My preconceptions of the novel's identity did me in.

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Originally Posted by NickAdams

I fond the last two chapters completely irrational and seems as if he went mad before he went mad. Why didn't he visit the apartment? I think City of Glass and Ghost are thematic explorations of the events in The Locked Room. I think the story revolves more around theme than plot. I think that is where my initial confusion spawned from. I expected the emphasis to be on on plot since this is a Detective/Thriller/Mystery novel. My preconceptions of the novel's identity did me in.

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The more I think about the last two chapters the more I think they are off track. How does he go from a writer to a bum living in an alley not minding the sitting in a garbage tank, or whatever they're called? It seemed an improbable leap. Was there any prep work for it?

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Originally Posted by Virgil

The more I think about the last two chapters the more I think they are off track. How does he go from a writer to a bum living in an alley not minding the sitting in a garbage tank, or whatever they're called? It seemed an improbable leap. Was there any prep work for it?

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I'm with you Virgil. It was suggested in another post that he had been slowly going insane after leaving his routine. I don't think you'll find the answer in plot or psychological development, or devolvement, but the answer is held in the authors personal history, which you will only discover in The Locked Room. I think these stories were constructed the way Yeats constructed A Vision. You have to review the themes and the symbolism, but all that is in the last book.

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Originally Posted by NickAdams

I'm with you Virgil. It was suggested in another post that he had been slowly going insane after leaving his routine. I don't think you'll find the answer in plot or psychological development, or devolvement, but the answer is held in the authors personal history, which you will only discover in The Locked Room. I think these stories were constructed the way Yeats constructed A Vision. You have to review the themes and the symbolism, but all that is in the last book.

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But who takes over the narrative at the last few pages? It really goes kooky then. But overall I did enjoy the novel. And love visualizing New York City as he moves about. ;) Ok I will have to keep reading. :D

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Originally Posted by Virgil

But who takes over the narrative at the last few pages?

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Auster's friend. He has been telling the story the whole time, but towards the end of City of Glass he reveals how he got involved. Remember Auster feeling guilty and all that?