A remake of 1984 me and my friends made
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bxyuN2LKD8
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A remake of 1984 me and my friends made
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bxyuN2LKD8
As I was reading Part III this same question occurred to me. So I began to think about Winston's question. "I understand the how but not the why?" O'Brian gives his answer and in doing so reveals the party goals of creating a perfect society as they see it. He speaks of tyranny, separating the bond between parents and children, eliminating orgasm and other forms of pleasure, Double think, Newspeak, etc. He never really gives a satisfactory answer to Winston's question but that is another discussion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gladys
As a means to the Party goals Minilove is as much an institute of science and learning (from the inner party perspective) as it is a prison or an enforcement agency. O'Brian is a scientist who's goal is working toward the party goals. Winston is simply a case study, seven years before he was chosen to be in room 101. O'Brian may not have known that he would meet Julia and so forth. He could been chosen for his past experience as a child loosing his mother and sister. Or any number of reasons. There are any number of crimes he and Julia committed that could have gotten them arrested. O'Brian simply was waiting and watching and gathering information.
Winston chosen as a case study?Quote:
Originally Posted by DaphneFree
I prefer to think that he was chosen seven years earlier following routine security assessments by the Inner Party: assessments of the sort we hear of today in the West as part of the war on terror. But I don't disagree with the scientist aspect.
That makes perfect sense. I guess I should have said that he became a case study. After the party had deemed him dangerous.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gladys
Became a case study?Quote:
Originally Posted by DaphneFree
I suspect Winston and Julia are treated the same as any other dissenter. And perhaps all dissenters are of scientific interest to the Inner Party.
Perhaps case study is the wrong choice of words. Test Subject I suppose is a better description. I got the feeling he was being manipulated subtly in part one. During the two minutes hate. The thought was solidified for me when O'Brien produced the photograph of the dissenters in NY during his reprogramming.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gladys
Of course I am not sure if any of this is correct. It is just what I was feeling as I read it.
In my opinion i feel as if Winston and Julia's relationship started out as a way to rebel.
As shown in the book Julia rebels in many small but significant ways. As said "Julia rebels from the waist down." Also Winston rebels in many ways as well. For instance writing in the Journal. I think that at the beginnig it started out that way but i think that over the time of their mettings they started having feelings for eachother. Although i feel as if Winston has more feeling for Julia then Julia has for Winston. For example when Winston had his nightmare that reminded him of when his mom and sister vannished she showed no interest and fell back asleep. But this is just my view on things.
:skep:
Isn't manipulation of the Outer Party the prime purpose of the two minutes hate sessions?Quote:
Originally Posted by DaphneFree
Winston has more feeling than Julia because he is old enough to remember life before Oceania and its propaganda machine.Quote:
Originally Posted by student101
I very much agree with this. Julia shows the effects of the emotional and social isolation the party is trying to inflict. She does have somewhat of an indifference or so it seems to Winston's turmoil. I believe that is very much part of having known only party doctrine for all of her life.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gladys
(Not sure whether or not I should've made a new thread, so I'm replying to this one to be safe ;) )
In regards to Julia, I never really saw her as someone who actually cared what Big Brother did. I always saw her as a quiet immature, stupid sex-addict (to put it bluntly) and the only reason she opposed Big Brother was because it took away the fun in life.
I thought this was highlighted when she falls asleep while Winston reads the book by E.Goldstein and also she never really seems to care when Winston talks about the Party (for example when he comments on the sudden change in hatred from Eurasia to Eastasia (or is it the other way round?))
Also I was never really convinced that she loved Winston, and can you even be certain that she did? A more wild theory to go along with that would be that she was one of the Thought Police all along, because as far as I can recall Winston never finds out what happens to her after he gets captured (do correct me if I'm wrong). :idea:
................
I just finished the book and my thoughts are that they waited seven years to arrest him because they had to wait for him to form an attachment they could force him to betray. Without Julia there would not have been another person for Winston to throw under the bus. I think this is backed up by the emaciated guy that begs not to be sent back to room 101. It sounds terrible to us that he was begging for them to take his wife and children instead, but in the 1984 society your wife and children are not the people you love.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gladys
Most insightful. I had overlooked the need for a Julia to break the resilient spirit of Winston. Seven years is worth the wait.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hassohappa
Seven years until Winston, mentally he was joining in with the cheering crowds, could offer an honest testimonial to the party as his eyes fill with tears of joy and reconciliation.
Savage!
Okay, so towards the very end of the book, Winston tells us about how he goes to meet up with Julia after they have both been released from the torture of Big Brother. I understand that they both admit to betraying one another for their personal safety, and that they both agreed that there was no feeling of love or lust between them anymore. But if O'Brien went through all of this trouble to get Winston to betray Julia, why is he letting Winston go to see her? I thought that Winston would be under the surveillance of Big Brother until his death. So i guess my question is why did O'Brien let Winston get away with going to see Julia after all of the work to burn his fancy with her out of his mind?
Why? The meeting between Winston and Julia is overt testimony to the demoralization that O'Brien worked for so long. Their new-found indifference to each other broadcasts the victory of O'Brien and Big Brother for all to see.Quote:
Originally Posted by 1984 and Chill
I agree with what Gladys said, that their meeting just proved that O'Brien had succeeded in separating Julia and Winston. They showed no emotion towards each other during their meeting so the party does not care to do anything about it. They are no longer worried about them being rebellious together since they have both been destroyed of emotion inside the ministry of loveQuote:
Originally Posted by 1984 and Chill
In the beginning Julia followed Winston around like a puppy dog. However Winston was unsure of her intentions. He suspected her as being part of the thought police. I can't say that I would risk even talking to Julia in fear of her turning me in. Being in a relationship together was also somewhat foolish. Who knows who might have seen them together and reported them.
I don't think that Winston and Julia were foolish because they knew what they were getting themselves into. They knew from the very start because even Winston thought Julia was the thought police. they knew they had to sneak around and they knew It was a matter of time before they got caught. they were surprised at the end because I think they thought the room above the shop was a safe place.Quote:
Originally Posted by jasmine1991
In a way i wonder if their relationship will be much like future relationships were betraying eachother means nothing. I would imagine many peoplr already feel this way.
In my opinion, it was undoubtedly foolish of Winston and Julia to get involved with one another. With a government like theirs, where you're watched 24/7 and with so many secret Thought-Police, it was almost inevitable for them to get caught. Although, in the long run I believe it would have been worth it to have what they had. In a world where showing emotion and loving is prohibited, simply knowing that you once had the chance to care for and love someone, even for a short time, must be something to live for.
There is no doubt that Winston and Julia were foolish for getting involved with each other but in reality what did they have to loose? For Winston he knew he would be vaporized either way. Julia on the other hand portrayed herself as rule following young member of the party. In reality she used her body and her sexual acts as a rebellion and a political act to make statements of sly rebellion. It seems like Julia would do mostly anything to rebel against Big Brother. Her hatred for the party most definitely sparked her encounters with Winston. As their relationship continues it is apparent that Winston deeply cares for Julia while she is somewhat dismissive towards him. They both knew how corrupt the Party and Big Brother was and how most people just disappear without any questions asked. They had nothing to loose.
It’s weird how at first Winston is concerned about Julia because he thinks she is a member of the thought police. Then they become friends. And they end up both getting caught by the thought police