No, I mean with multi colors, and real handwriting. I am sure the texture doesn't feel good, and feels like writing on a palm pilot, and not paper, with friction, and the scratching of the pen.
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No, I mean with multi colors, and real handwriting. I am sure the texture doesn't feel good, and feels like writing on a palm pilot, and not paper, with friction, and the scratching of the pen.
Sure we all like paper books but I think many of you are being unfair on eBooks. For example eBooks are actually more "comfortable" and practical, of course I'm refering to using eReaders rather than reading from a computer.
Reading in bed with an eBook is much more comfortable - why? because the eReader is less bulky and heavy than a book and importantly you're not turning pages.. you know how you have to hold the book up when you're reading one or the other page depending on which way you're lying.
Plus eBooks are practical! you can carry hundreds of books around with you in your jacket pocket - i'd like to see you try that with paper books. And someone mentioned likeing different fonts etc... well with an eBook you can choose the font and text size! even colour if your device supports colour. plus you don't need a bookcase for an eBook collection, good if you don't have much space.
eBooks are the way of the future, paper books will decline, in 10 years most of us will be reading eBooks and paper books will just be a nostalgic supplement.
and what is the actual point of that? would you ever really need 100 books in your jacket pocket?! you must be a fast reader ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by DapperDrake
maybe some people on here think that it is a good idea, but i should imagine the great majority of literature lovers would never swap books for ebooksQuote:
Originally Posted by DapperDrake
it is just a gimmick in my opinion
It doesn't really need to be an either/or argument. I do most of my reading on my Kindle, but I also buy paper books occasionally for various reasons. I just order Louis-Ferdinand Celine's "Journey to the End of the Night" because I couldn't find an ebook copy available.
To each his or her own! :)
I buy paper books very regularly. Classics are free in ebook format any way. I prefer ebooks because of the sheer comfort of the ereader. You don't even have to hold the device, just place it in your lap or on your arm and reach out and gently push the flip-bar to change the page. Pocket PCs have auto scroll but I don't like reading on back-lit screens any more. I love literature and knowledge, regardless of its package, format or means of delivery. Electronic paper is a very new concept. Soon we will see flexible roll up epaper, Epson are working on the color version, Kindle gives you access to thousands of Amazon titles anywhere, any time. Sites like Feedbook.com deliver content for specific devices and their standard is very high indeed. I have direct access to the thousands of classics on Feedbooks.com classic using my iLiad on a WiFi connection. I remember how I saved money to buy the Penguin paperback edition of Gogol's Dead Souls during my student days. Now I don't have to worry about money as Dead Souls is available free on the internet. What excuse can one have for not reading?
Reading books on a computer screen is just awful. But there are times I've been very glad the option is available. Online is the only place I could find Voltaire's mock-epic poem about Jeanne D'Arc. And there are times when I just want to have a quick look into something and don't want to make a trip to the library (and the library might not have it!)
Reading on a screen is such torture that I'm not inclined to invest in a dedicated electronic reader. It's not just the glare, I hate the scrolling. The codex replaced the written scroll for good reason! Being able to flip through a book to find a passage is something I will never voluntarily give up.
e-books are a good option, but I don't think I'd keep an e-book under my pillow anymore than I would put a set of encyclopedias in my jacket pocket :)
Ugh, are people actually reading e-books? I can't stand the idea. I spend enough time in front of a CRT as it is. The tactile sensation of holding an actual book in my hands is an important part of the pleasure I get from reading.
Ever been on holiday and stuffed your suitcase with books? plus as I said, one eReader can contain a whole library without you having to give up your spare room (if you even have a spare room).Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank Stamper
It is a little gimmicky at the moment granted, though current eReaders shouldn't be underestimated, but you've got to think about the future... eReaders will become as cheap as a book, eReaders will become something you can comfortably fold away and put in your pocket like a sheet of paper, the battery life will be months, the storage capacity will be millions of books, you'll be able to buy or download new books on the fly (kindle is a forerunner)...Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank Stamper
Yes paper books have their value and their charm but their mainstream days are numbered, perhaps you're right, perhaps the "great majority of literature lovers" won't want to give up paper books - but the up and coming generations won't have such qualms.
You still use a 'crt'? I am amazed!Quote:
Originally Posted by slobone
yes! but im still not convinced an e-reader is suitable for the beach or by the pool... or are they sand proof/waterproof? because lets face it, no matter how much care you take of your books, they always come back with sand in them or slightly dampQuote:
Originally Posted by DapperDrake
and what about glare off the screen in the sun?
sorry i am going to take some convincing on this!
I have more than 2500 ebooks on my laptop (ran a search yesterday to get this figure) at the moment, most of them classics. I don't search the internet for literature any more. I needed a line from Lermontov's A Hero of Our Time this morning, just searched my hard drive, found the book (in MS Reader or .lit format) entered the search word 'rien', and bingo! Here I go again, this is what I was looking for:
Finding the book and the exact line took less than a minute. I just re-ran the search while composing this message and copied and pasted the above line! What can be quicker and more comfortable than this?Quote:
"Ne craignez rien, madame, je ne suis pas plus dangereux que votre cavalier" . . .
I do not know if the feeling of reading a book with ebook readers is the same as paperbooks or not, those who have, is it the same?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dori
I prefer this one, sitting by the window, listening to the rain outside (at least if you can concentrate on your reading) and read a book, turn the pages ... not clicking or using a mouse.Quote:
Originally Posted by amalia1985
Although i prefer paperbooks, during journies ebooks are the best options because fof what you said about Haroun ul Raschid, and about the heavy dictionaries and encyclopedias it is better that paperbooks, too. Yesterday, I borrowed a book which contains all of Shakespeare's plays it really makes me trouble bringing home as it is really heavy and now got problem in reading. The only way to read it is that I have to put it on the desk, cannot hold it up, cannot read while lie down in the bed, cannot put it on my knees while sitting. And about taking notes, we use different colors to highlight or write notes in the book, it is possible with the ebooks even better than paperbooks. If you have lots of things to write and there is no enugh space in your book, ebooks become the best option, as said before. All has its advantages and disadvantages.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kafka's Crow
One interesting thing, I have allergy to old books, the smell and the dust on them. What can I do that I like reading these books? :((
My Iliad looks very sturdy and the screen is specially designed to remove glare from the sun. It is not a shiny screen. Soon there'll be sand and waterproof covers available for these devices, till then I'll use cling film!Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank Stamper
The number of ebook readers is growing faster and the prices of reading devices are also in a nosedive. Amazon slashed the price f the Kindle recently, Astak Mentor are about to launch a sub $200 ereader which should shake the market and drag the prices lower, iRex released a silver, no-frills, version of iLiad last month, it has no Wifi but it is significantly cheaper than the version that I use. Exciting things are going on in this area of technology:
http://www.mobileread.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=78
so basically it is good for literature students... not sure how many casual readers need to look up a specific line of text... but I concede it would certainly be good for research/essay writing etc if the stuff you need to look up is available for download... however you can do searches on certain websites already (google books etc) so it is only really beneficial if you need to do this remotely/where you haven't got internet accessQuote:
Originally Posted by Kafka's Crow
not convinced about taking it to the beach tho, even wrapped in clingfilm ;)
I'll stick to the paperbacks cheers :D
I heard similar words when I bought an iPod 7 years ago. They found all kinds of deficiencies in the product. Now everybody and his mum has got one! Rest assured I will be digging out these threads in a couple of years time :wave:Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank Stamper
While I love that this website offers older texts on the website, I sit at the computer enough while I'm at work. I definitely prefer paperbacks anyday! and so encouraged that so many other people do too.
I prefer paper books definitely. Ebooks for me are good if i want to read something short, but I can't imagine read ebook of "War and peace" or "Middlemarch". Besides, I just like to put all my books on stacks and from time to time just glimpse at my collection :)
haha yeah... the iPod is totally different though. Having your music collection on the go is far more important than having 200 books on you. The iPod/MP3 players revolutionised the way people buy/listen to music, I can't see the e-reader will do the same. I'm no Luddite, I just don't see that the e-reader is anything other than a gimmickQuote:
Originally Posted by Kafka's Crow
They called it a brick, over-priced, too delicate, mac-bound etc, and the famous 'what do you need 500 songs for?' question also popped up every now and then. Of course hindsight is always 20-20, nobody believed in any future for that product back then. I will definitely dig up these posts in not too distant a future.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank Stamper
who is 'they' - I always thought the iPod was a great ideaQuote:
Originally Posted by Kafka's Crow
I'm sure some people will end up buying an e-reader who have previously sworn never to be interested, but I'm fairly confident that I wont be one!
I don't think you can really draw a comparison between mp3 players and eBook readers, sadly. At least I think its fair to say eBook readers will not take off in the same way that mp3 players did.
1)The younger generations, who are the early adopters of technology, don't read as much as they listen to music – its “cool” to listen to a heavy metal band at 120db on an mp3 player but somehow I don't see kids deriving the same kudos from reading an eBook.
2)Any music is easily available, legally or otherwise, in the mp3 format. How many books that are in the book store right now are easily available in a single, free, eBook format? Its not like you can take a paperback home, rip it to pdf and share it with the world (not that I'm endorsing piracy but lets face it, piracy made mp3 players possible).
3)Mp3 already had a popular base before the mp3 player came along, everyone I knew in the years immediately preceding mp3 players had vast library's of mp3's on their computer – I know nobody (among my peers) that has even a single eBook (except myself).
4)The eBook reader devices cost way too much, even the original mp3 players that could barely hold a CD's worth of music and were the size of a pack of cards were affordable.
5)Ebook reader devices are too unwieldy, an mp3 player can be put in your pocket and be barely noticeable but eBook readers are chunky because of the screen – foldable or rollable displays are definitely needed.
6)Publishers are loath to put their books in an eBook format because they, probably rightly, fear piracy. The only piracy protection they have is the fact that you can't readily convert a paperback into an eBook, most of the pirates work is done already if the publisher releases an ebook.
Despite all this I think there is a definite niche, and not a small one, for eBook readers. I long for the day when decent eBook readers are affordable and have folding/rolling screens, this may still be years off but at that time I can assure you I won't be buying any more "real" books.
Actually, if I was to try and steal e-books from the net (which I wouldn't, as I find reading e-books terrible) I could come up with about 40 gigs of text files in English alone. I am sure, since the availability of these books exists, that there must be someone who is stealing them, yet I doubt this can be healthy.Quote:
Originally Posted by DapperDrake
Lets say the average novel, or whatever, is 350 pages, then it would take about 20 seconds a page to scan, so about 2 hours to steal a book. That is, of course, assuming they don't scan 2 pages at once, which would cut said time in half.
Either way though, I am praying eBooks do not take off, as it would ruin reading completely. Firstly it would destroy traditional publishing, which would harm the writing community severely, by squishing out the little guys completely, and secondly it would disrupt the natural process of writing in general, being that it wouldn't allow for books to live and die the same way.
The implications of an e-reader are immense. Just think of all the unknown books on Project Gutenberg, or even the untouched author's forums here, which still don't have their first posts. Those books, and every new book added to their pile will not have the chance to go out of print, and will merely float around in the same pile, until new technology happens to come along, and change the way we read again.
Either way though, I don't think the current generation will break away from books, but the millennium generation which are 8- right now will have a profound effect on the way technology influences the arts.
Can you elaborate? i'm really not sure I follow. How could eReader devices possibly be bad for the writing community? and what could they possibly have to do with project Gutenberg?Quote:
Originally Posted by JBI
Ruin reading!? that sounds a bit overly dramatic don't you think?
An eReader allows for the access of books without having an actual physical book. As such, one needs to know where to find the books. Project Gutenberg, for instance, is a giant stockpile of books, which, even if you read at all times, would take several lifetimes to complete (in just English, in all languages even longer). The immensity of the collection is made to be a problem, as there is nothing saying what gives more space, and what doesn't.
As a result, we are overwhelmed, and only the works that we know about can be read. There can be no browsing anymore, since one does not actually have the physical book in front of them. Sure, they can read a piece, but is that the same? Is the bookstore feeling of picking up a book by an author you haven't heard about, flipping through the pages, reading bits, even sitting there for an hour, the same? No it isn't, and can't be done, as there are too many books on the shelves.
Then we need to go with advertisement, and recommendations. How is a little guy supposed to compete against major publishers mass-advertising books by major authors? They simply cannot. It is not possible. Add in that the book shelves will not empty, and new stock will not replace the old stock, but only add onto it, then you have a problem.
Instead of having 2-3 Dan Brown books, Stephen King books, Daniel Steel books, David Silva books, etc. You will have every book published by these authors in the history of their careers available in one spot. These guys today take up so much of the shelf room, and their books are more likely to have faces forward than the little guy. How exactly is a budding poet supposed to have his work viewed by the public? As it is, publishers are trying to build themselves up, and many presses go bankrupt trying. Poetry, personal essays, and Short Stories have an even more difficult time starting out, as those genres are typically unread by the majority of the reading population. If you take away their tiny bit of shelf space, how can they be read, because, as I pointed out earlier, you lose the store browsing ability. No one is going to buy a poetry anthology unless they have a) heard great things, or b) have read a little bit of it. At an anthology of 100 pages, as the standard these days seems to be, what can they possibly sample?
The little guy will be overwhelmed. But not just that, the foreign guy will be overwhelmed. Canadians read far more American, British, and French lit than Canadian literature as it is. Imagine what will happen when the small Canadian presses are destroyed, and the massive American firms start advertising on the net. Utter chaos. Already if you go to bookstores, you see the American colonialism in effect. I recently came back from Europe, and, after visiting countless bookstores (a local pass time of mine on days where museums are closed) I realized that all of them contain Stephen King's new book (something Key, I cannot remember the name), Harry Potter, and other mass-produced works. The romance novels are the same; a few local names, but in many cases, an overwhelming amount of American names. In fact, cross-genre they all seem to have American books over representing themselves.
Of course, there are possible advantages; a) it will allow public domain books to be conveniently stored on one little device, and carried around. b) It will allow authors the potential of making more than 10%ish on booksales, and c) it will allow people to buy books without going out. But these are all minor things. These are all well and good, but look at the other effects; people will be overwhelmed with what they have to read, that they won't no which way to turn, being that they can literally carry the "western canon" or even the "world canon" around with them in their pocket. b) 10% royalties are an annoyance, any writer will tell you, but 100% of 0 is still 0. The increase in royalties only benefits those who have large sales; good luck with that if you haven't been published before, or if you haven't had your name in circulation. and c) sure you can enjoy not leaving to get your books, but that takes away one of the most enjoyable aspects of reading - going out and finding something that you haven't heard about, or that you haven't read, and deciding to buy it over something else, or deciding to buy it for someone, or deciding to take a chance with it, and then sitting at home with it, or giving it to a friend, and watching yourself fall in love with the work, or watching your friend fall in love with the work.
JBI, here we disagree. Digital technology is still in its infancy, but I agree with one observer who said the current disruption is about economics, not literature. I don't know how old you are, but I can glory in the degree of access which will be there for my 13 year old neice which isn't there for a 45 year old disabled woman like myself. I cannot get into certain bookstores or libraries to research--and, the developed world is already overwhelmed with information--whether or not one browses in chain distributors or through Google, Gutenberg, and their imitators.
Before I came online I read two newspapers, The Philadelphia Inquirer, and The New York Times.
Now I read Slate, The Washington Post, Dick Poleman, Politico, The Washington Monthly, in addition to others. This is both to keep me current and to look for market opportunities. Arguably, my byline would have never gotten in The Philadelphia Inquirer had it not been for the fact that I can stay current with the media.
There are things to be missed about traditional paper media, the way one can fall into a book or a high quality periodical--but the digital age is here, traditional copyright protection will give way, it has to, and writers will eventually adapt to a new order which is still being defined.
JBI, Yes there may be some chaos if eBooks really take off, much like the music industry has experienced, but like the music industry I don't see that its really going to fundamentally damage creativity. Many of the arguments you make were made against mp3 and music sharing but in reality its had little discernible impact.
Regarding your points about obscurity in a book store free world, to be fair I think this can be solved by simply replacing the book store with the online book store, if the browsing features are good enough then there will be little difference between the real and the virtual. You don't have to overwhelm the consumer with every book ever made just because you can, its perfectly possible to have a "current stock" section of an online book store as well as a full archive.
A current stock is less advantageous to the eBook store. They will be like Amazon, having everything, but even worse, will literally have everything. No author is going to pull his book off the eBook shelves, as no author wants, even in the paper-world, their book off the shelves. Therefore, even if they stop being advertised, they will still be there, and they will be hit when the author's name is entered.
Either way though, Marshall McLuhan, in 1964 released a philosophical book called Understanding Media, in which he goes over the different effects different forms of media have, and where he came to the conclusion, The Medium is the Message. What this study tried to show, was how our mind responds differently depending how we get our information. He speaks on radio and television, and how it has a different effect than reading.
What I guess the point of bringing McLuhan into the picture, was to try and put things in perspective. No matter what, eReaders will have a profound impact if they go mainstream. The question is though, whether it will be good or bad. I think though, that the bad will outweigh the good, especially in a society that is already suffering a decline in reading, yet then again, I could be some sort of Cassandra, or I could be some sort of Savonarola. Who knows.
I have no doubt that our children and our childrens, children will be reading books on an e readers, there is only one way in this digital world and that is forward (though there will be some people that don't think it is forward). It is a shame to think that they will miss out on what I think is one of the best things about reading, that is spending hours in my local bookshop deciding what to read next or the excitement of walking into a second hand shop and finding that book that you have been looking for in perfect condition at a really great price.
Music sharing and MP3 downloads have completely changed the music industry... big labels are dropping artists who can not shift large units and therefore that stifles creativity because new bands are not being given a chance... self-publishing is the result but that means less cash and the necessity of said artists having to get proper jobs to finance their music careers which will inevitably have a very discernable effect on their creativity... I was a music journalist for five years and have seen first hand hundreds of smaller labels close down because of illegal downloading etc... without smaller independent labels some bands/artists will never get music released... obviously creativity is not something that is directly governed by market conditions, because you either have talent or you dont. however if you have to work 40 odd hours a week, the time spent on being creative is less and therefore it will have an impact on the number of artists/bands that are successfulQuote:
Originally Posted by DapperDrake
i wouldn't want to speculate on the effect of eBooks on the publishing industry in general because the markets are completely different, i just think you are wrong to say that mp3 and music sharing has had little discernable impact on the music industry, because it blatantly has.
I don't think I said it has had no impact on the industry, I realise the impact has been huge but to be fair what does the consumer care about the record companies? The point is that I don't think that there has been a noticeable impact on the end consumer, either from the point of reduced choice or quality (pop music is as bad as ever). I haven't heard a single person - average joe - saying "boy, music has really gone down hill since mp3 showed up".Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank Stamper
I'm not denying that the publishing industry could be in for a nasty shake up if eBooks take off (5, 10, or 15 years down the line), but at the end of the day books aren't written by publishing companies and they aren't read (consumed) by publishing companies, they are middle men, and they will just need to evolve into whatever their new role might be. We will always need editors and quality control and promotion so there will always be a role of some sort for publishers.
Whether it is music, book publishing, or video content, neither the economic nor legal framework has caught up with the technology yet. Copyright and intellectual property issues are particularly nettlesome, and I am not much of an expert. Giving a literary website first rights for nothing is something of a joke, especially if the domain goes up for sale and the *&^% content vanishes. Forgive my expletive but I've had this happen and it upsets me. For a writer to give away her work simply for exposure in someone else's pages is one thing. To have it disappear because the site doesn't occupy three dimensional space is another. Are my first rights technically still gone? First rights are how a writer is paid, thus valuable, as of yet. At least with a paper journal you still have the evidence of having been a contributor, even if the publication ceases.Quote:
Originally Posted by DapperDrake
But even with purchased content, publishers usually give you the right to resell in 90 days, which rarely happens. Authors do get reprinted, but it isn't a regular occurrence.
Copyright and intellectual property law is already byzantine, and although I cannot predict how, the technical and economic pressures will no doubt lead to significant restructuring.
Candidly,PAPER books is more stimulating than e-books.Common sense,my friend,reading form Internet makes you genuinely jaded.One advantage of e-books is that you do not need to buy nor borrow the books.Furthermore,Internet is literally fast.
E-books terribly hurt my eyes every time. I prefer a real book, because you can hold it and feel the pages in your hands. Your eyes will be comfortable in a way. There's no painful background light emitting from your computer screens.
We have alread discussed e-Paper as a solution to to that, to be fair though a dedicated eReader device is too expensive to be practical to your average person, myself included unfortuantely.Quote:
Originally Posted by K. Skywalker
However when you compare a book to an eBook in terms of convenience and comfort you have to factor in eReader devices, or at least PDAs and pocket PC's as these answer 90% of the common objections to ebooks. Otherwise, I concur, there is no contest - reading from a PC screen at a desk is abominable.
I have been following this thread for quite some time now, as this is a topic of general interest to me. I can sympathize with the comments on concern regarding piracy. It is a very real concern for the market. While it is similar, it is by no means identical to that of the mp3 market. However, what it boils down to is this... personal integrity to uphold the values which we ourselves hold dear.
I know many people who essentially laugh at me for "buying" my music. While, this poses a problem for me on a storage level (I do not have a whole lot of space to be storing my voracious cd collection). I personally feel that I am supporting the arts that I so dearly love. Being generally a classical and "world" music enthusiast, this genre is usually not available for "free downloads". And while this may be a reason I purchase this music, rather than download it; I have come to adopt this principle in my overall character.
In this same way, I have been following the ebook market. It concerned me for the book industry I so dearly love. I was concerned that it would depreciate the value of the author's themselves. However, I was hopeful that it would open a whole different type of person to the possibility of appreciating books. The overall effect of this device has not made itself clear at this point. The debates are similar to those posted here. It will be interesting how the computer industry and legal represenatives choose to approach this challenge.
We can say what we like about the individual device itself. There are a few out on the market with different features and such. For me, it is tempting, again for the space restriction. I am continuously running out of room on my bookshelves and flat surface areas to house those books which I can't seem to part with. I cannot afford to store them in the "proper" sense to avoid deterioation of the book themselves. And in this sense, I feel that I would disgrace the book by treating it such disrespect.
What it boils down to is this.... personal character. If you chose to purchase such a device, it is up to you as an adult (I assume you are one ;) ) to be responsible about the usage of its contents. If you truly love the book industry as a whole, your respect for such personages will dicate on whether you purchase or pirate; should you have the option.
IMO, this is just one more way to test civilization on its moral fiber.
Hey I was just wondering for the person who had the sony reader or anyone who knows the answer.
Can you upload Free E-books to the sony reader or do you have to get legal/paid for ones?
What files does it load? Does it load mobibooks?
Just wondering cos theres a new one out soon and I may get one. Most of the literature I want is online free..... and I'd like to upload some poems too.
Thanks
yes. with the Sony reader you can upload free books. As far as the mobibooks.. I am not sure.. you might try your question at mobileread.com. A lot of folks there share their experiences and questions in reference to all of the readers on the market.