Can humans be objective?

Why? How does one write a book for other people? Who is the other that a book could be written for? A book should be written by and for the author, and it should be read by and for the reader. The relationship between an author and an entirely unknown reader is non-existent. The reader can never fully understand the author or authorial intent behind a work; therefore, it is impossible to write content for that reader. Likewise, the author can never fathom anything more than a faceless, common reader - cycle repeated. It's very ego-centric to assume that any writer at any time in any place has ever written a book FOR a reader. The reader is an entirely separate and consequential entity that is wholly reliant on a product that hardly exists as part of the author's mind...

Case closed.
So, you are not writing for me to read it. So you are writing to prick? Have fun.
ROFLMAO!!

You're having trouble separating a novel as a work of art from a novel as a product. We could go about this another way though. Name one book and explain how it was written for you. What ideas and messages did the author include for you, as the reader? How can you know any of that? I'm more than willing to accept a hand written, signed letter from the author that states what he or she wanted you to pull from the work... If it helps, you are welcome to pick any piece of literature that you want.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by maxphisher

You're having trouble separating a novel as a work of art from a novel as a product. We could go about this another way though. Name one book and explain how it was written for you. What ideas and messages did the author include for you, as the reader? How can you know any of that? I'm more than willing to accept a hand written, signed letter from the author that states what he or she wanted you to pull from the work... If it helps, you are welcome to pick any piece of literature that you want.

---

To discuss this with you in any serious way would be like lending myself for free to be ridiculos.

You're offering a lot of laughing and ridiculing and absolutely no thought or basis to your argument. "Just because" will never be a suitable answer to a question.

Maximum Phisherman. LOL

I guess that's the best that I expected from you... That was excellent defense of your stance on this issue. Congratulations, I guess.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by cafolini

Maximum Phisherman. LOL

---

There are facts about the world that any rational person recognizes as objective principles, from which we can easily formulate more complex ideologies that are, at least fundamentally, objective. The most basic one would be that we exist. There's no point in thinking anything if we don't exist. Next most basic would be that we rely on a necessarily healthy environment. We need good soils, weather, resources, ext. another would be that happiness and moral are not the same thing. The concept of the non existence of objectivity is a misinterpretation of what science means. All the hedonists look at science and say it erodes morality, but they forget that science itself is objective, though not certain. Certainty is an illusion and certainty isn't objectivity.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dramasnot6

Besides, what is "objective" is in itself subjective to the individual interpreting the meaning of objectivity.

---

"the only thing i know is that i know nothing." if you realize your mind is just an instrument for observation and speculation, and that you will never see the complete picture (just think about all the wavelengths we do not see, all the senses we know exist but do not have), then it's clear that objectivity and subjectivity both have their place but are just 2 sides of the same coin.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hypatia_

"(just think about all the wavelengths we do not see, all the senses we know exist but do not have), then it's clear that objectivity and subjectivity both have their place but are just 2 sides of the same coin.

---

not necessarily true, we know that those wavelengths are there, its just the way the light is reflected, we can see all the wavelengths that are VISIBLE, based on how the light is reflected

i'm a chem major and understand what wavelengths we can and cannot see. the fact that we know other wavelengths are there does not mean we can perceive them, unfortunately.

I was going through my old threads here and came across this, so I decided to stop, and chime in ... I would think it would have to be YES! How could most of the world which is subjective (self-centered) not eventually come to the conclusion that in order to evolve you must be objective ... With more of an eastern philosophical bend on things, (western seems so linear, non-cyclic) seeing the world spinning into chaos, and with humanity facing some of it's worst possibilities like AI, WWIII, declining populations, resources, the 4 horsemen, Armageddon, etc ... How could they, it's inevitable! Our governments, industry, technology and militaries will destroy itself and maybe us with it. Not to mention the next cycle of culling humanity.

The Next Age of the Earth
https://youtu.be/R8DHU0NT7Is?si=F23mBVHPHmIsDh7T
The Coming Catastrophe
https://youtu.be/j635Cv2aOlA?si=XLD

Everyone tells us they are going to do this or that, we ain't in charge, and the people in charge ain't either, there's no way they can stop or not be the apart of the universe. There's no chance for subjective.

Ah yes — the inevitable collapse, courtesy of the Four Horsemen and a few billion lines of AI code. I always say, if the universe is a simulation, it’s got a dark sense of humor and a very nonlinear plot structure. But maybe that's the trick — objectivity doesn't save us from the chaos, it saves us in spite of it. Like learning to dance in the storm instead of trying to redirect the hurricane. Eastern thought would say the wheel turns whether you like it or not — best to unhook your ego and watch it spin with wonder. The West, meanwhile, is still trying to install brakes on the wheel.

Anyway, I’m glad you chimed in. Threads like this are exactly what remind me that while we may not be in charge, we are awake — and that counts for something.