Basically think it to write someone's mind. Like you are in someone's mind and watching his thoughts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pensive
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Basically think it to write someone's mind. Like you are in someone's mind and watching his thoughts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pensive
Actually, I am a very slow reader, but I basically had the leisure to do nothing else at the time than to read (summer break from school), and so I did. At this point in time, the same undertaking would probably take me several months. What a sad state of affairs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Virgil
You are right, "fragmented" is not the best description, hence the "(stream-of-consciousness)."
Don Quixote was a summer reading project of mine a couple of years ago, and I was intimidated by the length of the book (summer vacations having shrunk from the several months of the past to a meagre two weeks), but I managed, because the book is simply about as much fun as you can have with your clothes on. Seriously! I could not put it down, and it literally had me crying with laughter at times. Enjoy!
EDIT: Pensive, I do not know the exact definition of "stream-of-consciousness," but the term fits. Woolf's prose is exactly that. One thought or event on the page will lead to a memory of another time and place or event, and without any real transition, the book will move on to that other time and place. "Think" about the process of thoought: You are at a flowershop, you are looking at the flowers, wondering which ones to take home -- your eyes fall upon a bouquet of red roses, and your mind wanders to someone's funeral, where someone placed roses on the grave, and you think about what the mourners were saying at the funeral. In your memory, someone is describing an afternoon of the past, where the deceased was singing at a garden party, and you think back to that party on that afternoon, and you are recalling the final examns that were occupying your mind at the time, as the now deceased family member was singing. It goes something like that, but not quite as schematic. Woolf will sometimes write this way, allowing the thoughts and actions of several characters to interweave. It can be quite a euphoric experience to read.
Thanks! This seems interesting, ain't sure if I like that though - character's mind wandering here and there, but this surely seems real. I think I have not read many books consisting of this before.
:) You are funny... Trust me, my example above is a very poor man's attempt at describing what Woolf does.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pensive
Fixed the Jodie link... Glad you liked the pictures as both those actresses are gay.Quote:
Originally Posted by Turk
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Originally Posted by Janine
Yes, most of Woolf's work was based on her personal experiences and this is one of the reasons why I don't like reading her books. I feel as if I am privy to something private or an inside joke which I do not get.Quote:
Originally Posted by Scharphedin2
I am aware that there are many writers who make use of their personal experiences while telling stories but Woolf is the only one (I think?) who makes me feel this way. Maybe it is the combination of personal experiences with stream of consciousness that creates that 'privy' effect on me?
Scharphedin2>Thank you very much for your informative posts. I really enjoyed reading them and they almost made me consider giving Woolf another chance...almost! :D
I'm not sure I'm going to like it much either. I don't mind first person writing, but this seems to be a whole different deal altogether. I'm not sure I want to follow along wth someone's though process. Mine is confusing enough most days, and I am wondering if I am going to find that Woolf's doesn't make any sense to me. I've recieved my book, though, so I guess I'll find out soon enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pensive
Yes, this can be a problem. Like this: :(Quote:
Originally Posted by mkhockenberry
I have to sleep. No I have to eat. Eat what? Why shan't I drink rather than to eat. Yeah, the drink Mother poured for me three days ago was just amazing. Mothers are wonderful things, aren't they? Oh Miriam's mother has died. I shall better go to her place and try to help her through such a difficult time. I shall also die one day after all. I am sure Sara is not going to come on even my death day! She is such a oh well many people in this world are self centred bad bad world. I think I have forgotten to take my tea. The glass in which Huma poured the juice was beautiful.
I wouldn't be interested in reading that! But I neither think it would be much like this (it's just an exaggerated version perhaps! :p). Hope it would be interesting. *goes off to proceed from the third page*
Just to clear things up on stream of conscious, a great writer just doen't write whatever comes to mind. There is purpose to what he chooses and makes it appear like it's random thoughts.
Let me also add that I don't believe Virginia Woolf writes in pure stream of conscious like Joyce does in parts of Ulysses. Woolf, and I think this makes her writing so different and original, interweaves third person narration (limited view) with a stream of conscious narration, so that one is not completely in the mind of the character and yet know their thoughts.
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Originally Posted by Scharphedin2
Hi Scharphedin, thanks for the explanation. Was the Stephens family Woolf's immediate/biological family? I read a short biography in Literature Online ages ago and can hardly remember now what I read. I believe they did mention this aspect of her life with the family going on vacation every summer, and also her father taking along a student. Where exactly is Hebrides? The film I saw shot the shore scenes in Scotland - very impressive. I read "To the Lighthouse" about 2 yrs ago and liked it, although I have some trouble reading stream-of consciousness-style authors, unfortunately. I think her 'long run on sentences' seem to be a problem for me personally; my mind tends to wander away on it's own. I realise the book is not 'plot driven' but I liked it very much. I like the central ideas of the book and I very much am interested now in discussing it. I also, have a film version done by the BBC, which is quite well executed and accurate to the book.
Well, that reading list is quite impressive – I commend you! I also have to say your articulate and expressive manner of writing is very impressive. I so enjoyed reading your last post and especially can relate to your enthusiasm for an author; I am the same way with D.H.Lawrence. I have tried to read everything he wrote and now plan on reading my 4th biography. The more I learn about him, the more I want to know. I suppose it has become an obsession, but at least it is a worthwhile one.Quote:
Basically my acquaintance with Woolf is based on 2-3 weeks of vigourous reading, and I admit that to me at this point Mrs. Dalloway, To the Lighthouse and The Waves bleed together in memory -- if what memory I still have of these books serve me right, they are also quite similar in style, whereas the others I read -- Orlando, The Common Reader, A Room of One's Own and Between the Acts did not quite employ the same fragmented style (stream-of-consciousness) - Common Reader and Room of One's Own not being fiction at all, in fact. The biographies I read (concurrently with these books) were Quentin Bell's Virginia Woolf: A Biography and Lyndall Gordon' Virginia Woolf: A Writer's Life. Both were good, although I remember being most taken with the former, as it was written by her nephew and (not surprisingly) had a more personal feel without sacrificing good scholarship.
The biographies you listed on Woolf sound very enticing. I may have to explore those someday, in the near future. I always find learning the backgrounds of the authors completely benefical to understanding their work. It is one more valuable tool in delving into their deeper meanings and understanding just why they write/think as they do. Also, thanks for being so helpful in categorizing Woolf’s novels – I may be interested in “A Room of One’s Own” someday soon, although “The Waves” has been on my ‘to read list’ for sometime.
Not clichéd at all, but true that certain passages do read like ‘prose-poetry, or at least they do to me. I think this is one attraction I do have to this author – she paints vivid pictures with her words. You know I had not even thought of analysis, when I first read this book. I only thought of flowing through the book or being ‘swept away’ in the currents of her writing. I would imagine a second reading and this group discussion will be much different. I know in viewing the film version, I have often tried to figure out parts of the story and interpret them on my own. A discussion will shed much light on what I have thought about for sometime. I am the same way, usually my strength lies in the investigation and delving below the surface and into the authors life and the relationship it has to his/her work.Quote:
As you remark, Woolf's ability with language is singularly beautiful -- it will sound clichéed, but certain passages almost read like prose-poetry. The hard part for many readers, I imagine -- and, especially if reading these books for school -- are the analyses of these long passages, where thoughts, and emotions, and events from the lives of several characters and different times flow together. Personally, I am not really good at this kind of analysis (or, all that interested), chosing instead to surrender to intuition at some point along the way, and letting the work and the words of the author carry me, not necessarily needing to intellectually comprehend every paragraph. The insight into the author's life on the other hand interests me, and maybe that takes the place of hard academic analysis for me. In any event, it will be fun to read along with the forum in this manner, and hopefully I will be able to contribute more along the way.
Scharphedin, Thank you emensely for this compliment. It is so good to know that others are reading the posts, and appreciating them, perhaps learning from them as well. I have been told by other people on Lit Net that they too, are following the Lawrence discussion groups.Quote:
In closing, I return the compliment, Janine. I have read parts of the Women In Love thread, and I am impressed with the level of insight you, and several other forum members, have into the novel, and Lawrence's body of work and life in general.
I know “To the Lighthouse” will be a great discussion group. It is starting out wonderfully enthusiastic!
Thanks for clearing this up a little. I'm still not really excited about the book, but the fact that I have a copy and plan to participate at least means I'm willing to give it a shot. I am very selective about the books that I read written in the first person. I'm just starting to see how selective I am. I never paid attention to the fact that if I pick up a book and begin to see "I" and "me" I generally just put it back down.Quote:
Originally Posted by Virgil
mkhockenberry,Quote:
Originally Posted by mkhockenberry
Even though I now enthustically endorse To the Lighthouse, it was not the easiest book to immerse myself in, and it took a little time to get into the rhythm of her writing, it is only the second of her books I've read, the first being Mrs. Dalloway.
It is well worth the time though. :)
Although, as I wrote earlier, much of Woolf's fiction sprang from her own experience, these are not "I" novels. In fact, as I remember it, Woolf's writer's stance is mostly quite omniscient.Quote:
Originally Posted by mkhockenberry
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Originally Posted by Virgil
I agree, nothing like Ulysses or The Sound and the Fury. I found to the Lighthouse frankly tedious to read, but only because I knew what the examiners would expect us to write on...as I read it. *Sigh* All those feminine subject positions. Admittedly I am no great fan of her books generally.
http://img125.imageshack.us/img125/9...leader2jc3.gifQuote:
Originally Posted by FrozenDuchess
Okay, I have read a little bit. Can't find anything immensely interesting. I see there are hardly any dialogues in it, very few. The main focus seems to be on the descriptive writing yet. The descriptive writing seems to be quite good though, that's also a reason I am keeping up with the novel. There are not many, as I call it, 'happenings' in the novel yet, very little action there seems to be.
Perhaps it would get a bit faster later, it's just the start after all that I am reading. I am tending to be very slow while reading it, so not to miss anything. Reading it like a course book!
I'm not actually a fan of the stream of conscious way of writing. I've studied The Life and Opinions of Tristram Shandy last year..and I hated it, to say the least. Call me dumb, but I had to re-read many parts just to understand what was going on. But Virginia Woolf is a must read for me, so I'm hoping I won't go through the sam suffering again...lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Virgil
Pensive -- Not specifically relating to Woolf, but also relevant here. I think you should just read the book. Read it like anything, and try to just let the words on the pages, the images carry you. If you do not catch absolutely everything, you will have your friends here in the forum to help clarify, and, in fact, there is a good chance you will actually "miss less" by reading it the way you would read any other book. By forcing yourself to read slowly, and treat the book like a course book, you will irritate yourself, and ruin what enjoyment you possibly could have from the book, and by doing so also take less with your from your reading.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pensive
Someone smart about reading once told me that it is better to read a book fast twice, than to read it slowly once. Personally, I still am not a fast reader, but I do try to pace myself, and, if anything, I do feel that I retain more of what I read.
(Pensive - I hope that did not sound smart or condescending; it was not meant to. Just sharing advise and practises that have been helpful to me)
Well, why not read it slow twice. ;) Someone even smarter just said that. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Scharphedin2
Look I'm no raging feminist :p (quite the contrary) but i think Woolf's feminism is a question of fairness to women and an understanding of thier point of view, which because most of literature prior to her day was predominantly male and lacked that perspective.Quote:
Originally Posted by FrozenDuchess
Looks like Scher's got a brand new set of smilies. :D I like them Scher. :thumbs_upQuote:
Originally Posted by Scheherazade
You have company over there?Quote:
Originally Posted by Virgil
:D
(You know I am just kidding, Virgil. Just couldn't resist it :))On behalf of my smilies, thank you! http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/5386/yayce6.gifQuote:
Looks like Scher's got a brand new set of smilies. :D I like them Scher. :thumbs_up
No, it's okay. Actually, thanks for taking the time to advice. :) And oh you don't seem as if you are trying to be condescending. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Scharphedin2
Actually, like most of the books I read, I am not merely reading it out of just enjoyment but also because of some of the themes in it like feminism (people say it deals with that) or 'stream of consciousness'. I am really curious about how it deals with that. It's not like I have to put a lot of thought on it after completing one or two pages, on the other hand I am trying to be careful so that I don't leave anything. A single sentence can have any reference to the theme in it. Heh that's making me more and more careful.
I suppose you could...Quote:
Originally Posted by Virgil
Scharphedin2, Your advice to Pensive makes perfect sense to me and I hope to others, too. It is good advise and not condenscending sounding at all; it is helpful. Personally, I like to read a book slowly and am naturally a very slow reader. I understand your idea of letting the book just drift along and enjoying it, not worrying about catching every single thing. As you said....."the images carry you". One has to just go along with the flow of these style books and not be so 'clinical', otherwise they can be a huge chore and boring as well. I think I too, will pace myself with the second reading of this book; just read so many pages a night. I will enjoy it much better that way with no pressure. And we have the summer months to discuss it, right? A 200 pg book hardly needs to be rushed through. Then having the text online we can go back and review and quote from it. It is online here, isn't it? I forgot to check.
:lol: hummm....was that someone you, Virgil? .....you crack me up!:lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by Virgil
I agree with this, neither am I one, but I think her writing did have it's place in time and women authors such as Woolf needed to speak out and be heard.Quote:
Look I'm no raging feminist :p (quite the contrary) but i think Woolf's feminism is a question of fairness to women and an understanding of thier point of view, which because most of literature prior to her day was predominantly male and lacked that perspective.
Yes, Scher, love it too! Is that a cheerleader - cute pompoms! :lol: Does she ever stop? She is quite energetic!Quote:
Looks like Scher's got a brand new set of smilies. :D I like them Scher. :thumbs_up
:) Hi Pensive, I believe you are now in the 'analytical mode' due to our recent L discussions.:lol: I am also; it is hard to depart, once one has crossed over into that 'mode of observation' while reading.
Oh my! You guessed it quite right. :p Half due to that and the other half due to summer holidays. I have got a lot more time to think! :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Janine
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Originally Posted by Scheherazade
:lol: Well, I was only kidding around. :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Janine
:lol: And Pensive, I love it when you 'think'! ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Pensive
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Well, I was only kidding around.
:lol: Virgil, no I really thought you were serious - you are pretty 'smart'!;)
Are we having fun yet???
Hey, just to let people know, since this is a summer read I plan to start the book around the beginning of August. But I'll drop by and see how the discussion is going.
That's a relief Virgil! I'll start at about the same period (work is rather thick now..)Quote:
Originally Posted by Virgil
I'm having the same problem. I started to read the book and everything is just sort of a blur for me. There isn't much action to really give me any sort of a focal point or something to grasp onto. Plus, is it just me or does the story seem to periodically switch between a couple people's point of view??? I'm praying that there is more going on as I get further along in the book and this is just Woolf's way of setting everything up for a more interesting tale.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pensive
I'm getting the book Tuesday, but I may be the only one of the few people talking about it. Don't worry, though. I think there is enough to talk about to keep the discussion going into August.
Hi !Quote:
Originally Posted by mkhockenberry
I haven't started with the book yet but i have already read Mrs Dalloway and loved it (i read it in two days and i am a very slow reader ;) ) but what you say here reminds me of that book as well. In "Mrs Dalloway" Woolf switches between a couple of peoples' point of view ;) so i guess it isn't just you and your observation may be correct ;)
So do I. So do I. When I think before I speak! :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Janine
I have to read Wilde's short stories, One Flew Over the Cuckoo's nest and the Bastille pick, so I hope to start towards the end of this month. I want to be done with it, so I can participate in Rushdie.
manolia and Pensive, I am glad to see you two here also. I probably won't get started till late either. I feel so pressured right now with the other threads still active. I may just review and my library book is due back this week, I have not even opened it yet. I better get it renewed and then when that time runs out my friend has a copy she said she would loan me. I think that, as Quark pointed out, there is enough in this book to keep us going by August. It is an intensely written, layered book, even though, technically, it is short. Glad to see there will be other late starter such as myself. It should be interesting. I will read along with your posts, Quark, since I know the story well, having read it a few years back.
I like that you bolded my name--it makes me feel important. I'll try to return the favor.
:lol: I think all you people are important - I always bold the names...:lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by Quark
Yes, please do; it would be nice if you do return the favor. I want to see my own name looking *important*.
Janine
:D
(Sorry; in a goofy mood... woof!)
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Originally Posted by Scheherazade
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
I could not stop laughing - thanks Scher.....that is a good one!!!:thumbs_up
I started this book last night. I voted for this book; a friend of mine loves Woolf. Man- is the whole thing going to be like this? Oh, I don’t know if I can make it through. I don’t even know what I’ve already read. It sounds like the stuff that goes on in my brain when I haven’t had any sleep and I still have miles to go. How can anyone follow another’s rambling thoughts around in a circle until it all comes back again, then put together those peaces to make any since? I’ll start over again today and see if it makes any better sense.
I don't think I'm skilled enough of an analyst to make particularly interesting remarks about Woolf because her writing is quite complex. However reading a novel like To the Lighthouse, for me, is much like listening to a Mozart opera--I may not understand everything completely (i.e. the harmonic structure and how it shapes, with liberty and restraint, the melodic lines; not to mention the foreign language in which the libretto is sung :)) while listening "casually."
I just finished To the Lighthouse, and loved it. I found the prose flowed smoothly and melodically. I am excited to see what others discover while reading the text. I love reading analysis of novels.
But for now I'm going to transition from the flowing prose of Woolf to the staggering action of Wimbledon (talk about drama :)).
Diana
This was one of the required texts for my course this year (I certainly wouldn't have approached it with a bargepole otherwise) and although I probably wouldn't read it again, I was pleasantly surprised with what I found. The stream-of-consciousness works well once you become accustomed to it, and I think the 'Time Passes' section is beautifully written. However, I absolutely cannot stand :flare: the character of Mrs Ramsay and I think it's that more than anything which would keep me from re-reading this in the future.