I'd also say that's why we have civilizations, cultures, religions and pretty much any symbol imaginable.
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I'd also say that's why we have civilizations, cultures, religions and pretty much any symbol imaginable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by crisaor
Hahah!:D Yay for Iggy!
This is just a suggestion
The problem with conceptual issues which have been ascribed the symbolic ending of 'ism' is that none, with which I am familiar are clearly defined. They are vague, sometimes because of well orchestrated intent, sometimes by media 'catch attention' or even journalistic ignorance, and this has led to connotations - meaning through usage, beyond the literal..
Therefore, to debate an 'ism' , it would be wise to first describe the meaning with which that particular thread is aligned. This would help to keep matters more focused and avoid confusion to both participant posters, and in general readers.
There are different interpretations of what 'nihilism really is', though.
The website shown on the first page shows a more extreme side of nihilism, i.e. 'Death to Love, Death to Government', etc.
However, I already stated my interpretation of it on the previous page.
If you say there are no absolute truths, aren't you saying there's only one?Quote:
Originally Posted by jphb
-There is one true statement, there's only one true statement, and all others are false, or less true? But then there'd be levels of truth. One truth above another, but really that truth wouldn't be saying much, just that it was truer than anything else. Because you first say that there's only one thing that's absolutely true, but then there's another degree of absolution.
If you get me.
Can't we say 2+2 is an absolute truth? Isn't that the definition? All 'concepts' don't apply to nature, so they say, but in math and things there is truth.
Well, I haven't read a whole lot about nihilism, just some of Nietzsche and probably others, and an excerpt from that Turgeniev piece; as I have it, nihilism is 'levelling.' That's fine and makes sense with nature, etc. Atrophy or whatever.
So I'm not sure what nihilism addresses, or what it means. Isn't it only a part of other philosophies, hell, even a thing of science?
I guess there was no point to this post since I was only asking a question..
First of all, you make the (incorrect) assumption that positive progress is made only by atheists. Secondly, what interest do you have in "advancing" if (as I know you are) you are an atheist? It seems to me that you would be more interested in your own self... I'm asking a question here, I'm not being facetious. Could you explain your reasons?Quote:
Originally Posted by hyperborean
I'm guessing your not familiar with economics. Having a progressive economy depends upon a population being self-interested. Having a population competitive to achieve their own ends makes everyone better off, this is the foundation to modern day living. Life today would be far less 'advanced' if this truth weren't in action.Quote:
Originally Posted by weepingforloman
I'm not quite sure that's what hyperborean meant when he spoke of "progress..." I get the picture more of a moral/social advancement.
Philosophy is more a statement about human nature than an antidote for it.Quote:
Originally Posted by hyperborean
To try and summarise Nihilism, i believe it's generally understood to there being no purposive truth truth to anything. So from the angle of meaning, everything is on the same level as having none.
Nihilism is also commonly applied only in an ethical sense. If something is nihilistic it can generally mean that nothing should be done, because there is no purpose to anything.
As for Nietzsche and nihilism, he was no nihilist. He was very concerned that the world would reach a point where nothing could be regarded as having true purpose or meaning, which is why he set about writing a 'revaluation of all values'.
He believed that no value remained a virtue for very long. He also developed the concept of the Ubermensch (anyone know how to type an umlaut?), which was then used (and distorted) by the Nazis.
"...the rest is silence," as someone once wrote.
However, here's the whole (Well, 99% of) orb of
monoesters, hydrocarbons, hydroxy monoesters, diesters, hydroxy polyesters, free acids, triesters, acid polyesters, acid esters, free alcohols and 6% ?
summed as parody.
Or is that, parodied some?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c8pdL0snjUs
Stay on (Or don't) Groovin' Safari,
:eek2: Tor Hershman :eek2:
"If you say there are no absolute truths, aren't you saying there's only one?"
I'm not even going to get into that paradox; it's insolvable.
However, just because I think there are no absolute truths, doesn't mean that I'm right or that I think/know I'm right.
Let's think upon that for awhile...
If you think a thought, you think you are right. Why would you think something you thought was wrong?
I think religion is wrong and faith is misplaced; doesn't necessarily mean I'm right. But then, if I have that self-doubt about my ideas on religion and faith, I can't be completely certain of myself, can I?
Just because I think something's wrong, or right, doesn't mean I have to stop thinking altogether. If people never doubted their beliefs, we'd all still be going to church every Sunday because we'd be too scared of being accused of practising witchcraft.
Or maybe I just don't trust myself, any belief, ideal or person. Would that be the same as nihilism, in any sense of the word?
It may be the mindset behind nihilism, but not necessarily a Platonic ideal of nihilism.
What's wrong with going to church?
Nothing is wrong with going to church! It was just an example. Don't get me wrong, I'm not pretentious enough to claim that my opinions should be law. After all, they're only opinions.
There is something wrong with not being able to express your own opinions on the matter, though.
I, personally, don't really care about whether a God exists, or what His will may be. I think that, if there is a God, His will and general existence are far beyond our ability to comprehend. The only part of religion I despise is the extremist side.
I see no point in arguing about religion, though. If somebody has faith in something like that, there's no way you'll be able to change their mind, nor would I want to, to be honest.
"All paradoxes are solvable." -Joseph CampbellQuote:
Originally Posted by Endymion
I don't believe it's a paradox. And thanks for reading it and replying.
I believe it's a true idea though. It's kind of hard to explain. I guess it's that one statement is true and all others are false. The statement is not that ALL statements are false. That would be a parodox. But an adaptation of that is to say that all other statements are false. Then you get the different levels of truth, because the others aren't false, per se, they can be true, just so long as they don't contradict the first statement, and so on. I haven't worked it all out yet, but that's the basic idea. And as far as absolute truth goes in any other instance, I agree with Pascal when he said, "There's no such thing as absolute truth. Everything here is partly true and partly false."
the thing about nihilism is that it does not take very much to achieve...
;)
Pardon me if I'm being stupid, but isn't this one of the reasons people mock followers of one religion or other? I mean someone like me, who believes that Christ (or, for example, Allah, or Yahweh) is the only truth. We are attacked for "close-mindedness," but this is essentially the same thing. Only this statement is true... all others are wrong. Sorry if I'm just being thick-headed.Quote:
Originally Posted by NikolaiI
Grace and Peace.
It's sad if anyone attacks you, I hope you're never attacked. I think the main reason for disagreeing with Christians, however, is gut-feeling, analysis, exposure, learning, perspective, etc. If you look at Earth as a ball in space, with creatures on it, and see their religions, i.e., the most recently evolved creature has created language and religion, it doesn't hold a lot of stock. What is religion to an alien, an ant, or a lizard? Also, what raises Christianity above the others? Several others claim to be revelations of God, etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by weepingforloman
You don't have to apologize at all, weeping. :) You never did anything wrong. Anyway, I'd like to hear your ideas on this philisophical subject. :)
Nikolai
Maybe you hate it because you want to be in a comfort zone. You hate because you can not think of having an independent existence of your own; you hate because you fear the unknown; you hate because in God you find all you desperations healed; You hate becuase you want an image, for you fear reality and you feel incomplete in yourself and you want externals for aide or for you to associate with.Quote:
Originally Posted by ennison
God is an invention of man, and it is invented with a purpose that it can protect him from imagined entities, and that he can move freely with Gods and angels guarding him all the time.
I am not a Nihilist in point of fact. I too have a kind of beleif in something that exists, in which form I can not imagine, let alone put the imagination or idea of it in words.
Nihilism appeals to me for it says everything in the end comes to an end or to cesation. This is the law of nature. Even celestial bodies have tho face death or the cesation of their beingness.
This is what I beleive in. If you disagree please comment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hyperborean
Having read this ommentary I understand that Jean Baudrillard has read Adi Shankaracharya, a great Indain Philosopher born 1200 years ago, a great vedantist. He was really a seer. He said this world is a simulation of or someply an image of god. And all things that seem to exist are simply refelctions of the other reality man can not visualize.
Therefore Jean Baudrillard must have immensely drawn upon the idea of Adi Shankaracharya. In fact Vedic litereature, I do not say Hindu literature becaus I beleive in seculiarim, i svery rich in philosophy. I do not claim that it is clean of or pure of all dogmas. No there are myths. But Vedic literature so ancient yet there is lot of logicality and evidence in them.
If you read his literature, that is Shankaraycharya you will be amazed to see therein reserivoirs of such ideas.
A. Your claim that God is an invention is unsubstantiated and unprovable. Furthermore, it's liable to cause this thread to be closed.Quote:
Originally Posted by blazeofglory
B. I think nihilism is itself an instance of seeking comfort. When nothing matters, why does it matter what you do? You can do whatever you want, free of guilt, free of worry that you should be doing something else. Ultimately, to me at least, nihilism is a wishful philosophy.
Can't that also be said about his existence?Quote:
Originally Posted by weepingforloman
There is little sense in your argument that Nihilism is a bad idea. Nihilism is never a bad idea. It is in fact if not in whole, in part similar to modern deconstructionist theory. It is against social taboos and mores and against authority. In fact it is a way of thinking that nothing needs to be taken for granted and every idea prior to accepting must be weighed in thss scales of reasoning and wielded in frames of reasoning and logicaliity.Quote:
Originally Posted by sharpe123
Therefore please think and give reasons why mihilism is a bad idea
I always like Nietzsche's argument against the "Nihilists" and that is they are hopeless in the death of god. The feel the absences of god, and his hold on morals and give up hope for something better. Nietzsche's belief in the Ubermenchen was in fact a wad of spit in the eye of the Atheist movement of his time. He said the Ubermenchen was a project that humanity had to embark on that would last beyond the lives of the humans who begin the project. Whereas the Nihilist thought of nothing beyond their own existence.Quote:
Originally Posted by blazeofglory
Yes, it can.Quote:
Originally Posted by NickAdams
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Originally Posted by weepingforloman
Quote:
Originally Posted by NickAdams
It's torturous logic to say that since an assertion can't be disproved it therefore must be true. Test this: I assert that there are one-eyed purple people eaters living on Cygnus X-1. Since you can't prove that it isn't true, it therefore must be true. That's not how reason and logic works. If an assertion is made, it is the duty of the asserter to present testable evidence to support the assertion, or society is allowed, even duty bound, to call that assertion false, or in this case "an invention".Quote:
Originally Posted by weepingforloman
I believe that one reason such fallacies are allowed to persist in our world is because enough people have internalized the myth to give it the appearance of reality where no real evidence exists. Clearly such "evidence" is inadequate when you consider an example such as belief in a flat earth. Appeal to the people is a formal fallacy exactly because history has proven that virtually everyone can be wrong about some matters.
Why would anyone think Nihilism is depressing? Im not a depressed person. The reason someone would find it depressing is if they still havn't come to terms with reality and still hold on to fantasy for a glimmer of hope. thats depressing. A life blinded by that which truly doesnt matter, a life lost in what isnt needed, a life in which acceptance of ones faint still isnt comprehensible. Thats depressing. " You must realize that one day you will die. Until then you are worthless ". You see, Nihilism, despite what the mainstream view on it is, has nothing to do with giving up, on the contrary it has to do with the exact opposite. You realize at some point that nothing really matters. thats step 1. Step 2. You begin to envision. You contemplate why do anything? why live? step 3. You realize that despite your life has no real significance you wont go kurt cobain on yourself. step 4. Now you contemplate on giving yourself purpose in this life, despite knowing their is none. step 5. You are now more free than anyone on the face of this earth. You bow before no one. You fear no one or anything. You think for yourself, you question everything. Now you can truly live life to the fullest. Your dream or dreams or whatever you stand for or once stood for, become a reality. thats Nihilism in my opinion.
How the camel became the lion, and then how the lion became the little child.
Didn't I see "Team Nihilist" running around loose in post-apocalyptic Mad Max?
It was Nietzsche who first diagnosed the crises in European thought, and perhaps by his own writings, contributed to this overthrow of traditional values, including the value of truth itself (for which reason Heidegger called him the "last philosopher").
While this crises could be the healthiest imaginable for the creative spirit of man, he knew also that nihilism, the opposite, was also a possible result. He wrote, "Man would rather will nothingness that have nothing to will."
Nietzsche was concerned that once the values hitherto were seen as hollow and all-too-human---that values were a matter of genealogy, prejudice, and fear---that valuation itself would become questioned and despised in a general and pervasive nihilism.
To Nietzsche's credit, he undertook the boldest experiments in creating new values. The "Superman," Eternal Return of the Same, the morality of aesthetics and spiritual health were some of these.
how dose one expect to make the desision between right and wrong withought a bases of right and wrong. if we were to destroy culture religion philosphy ext, then how would you know what was right and what wasnt. arnt we, as people, told from the second we can crawl, what not to do. though we see something is wrong through our eyes, if we were to look through anothers would it look as bad? i personaly belieave that there is no right nor wrong but different ideals and beliefs. i think that if one was to remove all beliefs ideals love hate religion and so on than we in turn would remove what makes us human. i breefly looked at the sight suggested and, sorry if im wrong, but it seems the ideal is to stop lisening to what your told but to think for youself and think in an independent mind, but if we all through away our own beleifs would we all not have conformed to the same belief and became the thing in which Nihilism was trying to avoid, an exsistance of cloned beings? Wouldn't this be a loss of independence and theretrough our humanity?
Yes I think it would I agree with you.Quote:
Originally Posted by AsILay
DISCLAIMER: THE BELOW POST DOES NOT, IN ANY WAY, SUPPORT THE TENENTS OF NATIONAL SOCIALISM, its just my favorite quote from one of my favorite films:) :
Quote:
"Nihilists? F*** me, Dude! I mean, say what you will about the tenents of National Socialism, Dude, at least its an ethos.
-Walter Sobchek, The Big Lebowski
Nihilists annul everything and as such they will annul themselves at the end
I have a philopohy myself, a sort of mixture between nihilism and existentialism. it goes as follows: There is no point in life. So have as much fun doing what you can while you are alive. Religion aside, we have no idea what will occure when we die, so have as much fun as you can while your still 'live and kickin'.
Dada was a very nihilistic movement and yet I think it only benifitted the world. It challenged many social and cultural assumptions, it upset the ruling class' taste, it liberated art and literature from rigidity, it terrorised the world with bad taste, absurdist humor and frivolity. And today we're better for it. I couldn't imagine myself living in the world before Dada.
Even so, I think nihilism is only useful in small doses. I think at the end of the end, humans need stability, culture, family, friends, and some guiding rules to achieve full happiness.
nihilism is all about having short bangs and wearing blue spectacles.
nihilists everywhere!
http://coffeeforclosers.files.wordpr...hilism1ex3.jpg
" ah. must be exhausting.."
To above: thank you. I clicked this thread hoping to find a Lebowski reference, and you saved me some time by being the first thing I saw.