asked the man/woman in real life who had a stroke.Quote:
why a stroke? It had nothing to do with the plot.
hehe, in real life lots of things happen that have nothing to do with the plot and they always happen when you are least prepared for them.
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asked the man/woman in real life who had a stroke.Quote:
why a stroke? It had nothing to do with the plot.
hehe, in real life lots of things happen that have nothing to do with the plot and they always happen when you are least prepared for them.
Yes, but unless the theme was the randomness of life (and I don't think that was Capote's theme here) then it seems contrived rather than organicaly evolved from the premise and plot. Just because things happen in real life suddenly doesn't make it art.Quote:
Originally Posted by SleepyWitch
hehe, good point.Quote:
Originally Posted by Virgil
hm, this discussion hasn't really picked up speed yet has it? are people just gonna say "i liked it FULLSTOP" and "I didn't like it END OF STORY" without any further discussion?
I don't know, but I'm trying to stimulate discussion. Why did you like it.?Quote:
Originally Posted by SleepyWitch
hurumpf, not sure :) probably because the characters are weird and I'm weird myself, so it was cool to read about them..
you're right, though, that Colin is really dull. he just seems to tag along with the weirdos but he's a bit of a non-entity himself. it's like he's just there to record what happened and describe those ppl
Yes, characters are weird and are potentially interesting, but they never get developed. This is only a 90 page novel and here's the list of major characters:
Colin Fenwick
Verena Talbo
Dolly Talbo
Catherine Cook
Dr. Morris Ritz
Riley Henderson
Judge Charlie Cool
Maude Riordan
C.C. County
Amos Lagrad
Sister Ida
And there's probably more. Each I admit quirky, but is the whole world quirky and why are they all so quirky? Nonetheless, all it seems to me is that he identifies a quirk and leaves the character at that. Other than the quirk, I don't feel I understand them. Take the major character Dolly, why is she a sort of child adult? The whole novel needed more space for character development. But if Capote had done that, the theme would seem trivial given the large proportion of the novel. The novel was short because the theme was simple, but then the characterization did not fit the shortness of the novel.
Hey, Virgil!Quote:
Originally Posted by Virgil
Congrats on tthe 8000! To answer the question, I suppose that my argument would be that Capote's ability to describe certain natural objects is beautiful. Though I have not dug into the book fully yet, I cannot give a remarkably brilliant argument. What I can say is that a great writer is seen through his ability to depict a natural object with words, emphazing it beauty, and in turn making it believable. hope thats alright!
Asa
hm, actually i don't really mind that they don't get developed. it kinda fits in with the story being told in retrospect. it's like Colin (kinda wistfully) remembers this episode a long time later, so what's important is what happened at the time not all the details of how the characters got to be that way. :???:Quote:
Originally Posted by Virgil
normally, i'm interested in character developments, too, but in this case i think he tells us just enough about them to see what kind of people they are but not too much. it's more like a portrait of the place (including ppl) he grew up in than a novel tracing the development of each of them.
Wow. This Novella is brilliant. Sorry Virg, but I have to come in here and express the beauty in capote's themes.
An example would be his tender, clarity of the love and innocence the human soul can omit. His attention to detail in a "squeezed for time" style of writing is more than entertaining. Moving is a good word I feel. Capote shows enviable balance with his words, and I have often found myself, returning to a paragraph and catching my breath, enjoying the view.
When describing beauty, capote uses excellent personification, and I have honestly enjoyed this piece of writing. I never found an issue with the new characters or the undeveloped original players. Probably because I have never been fond of the "stay with the same, boring characters/issues throughout a single novel." I sincerely enjoyed this novella. Bravo Truman, Bravo.
Asa
;) That's OK. To each his own. Nice to see you back, Asa, BTW.Quote:
Originally Posted by Asa Adams
Can you give a few examples. There were some well written passages. I know this novel is not on the internet, so it will require typing it out. But I find typing out well written passages actually helps my writing. So it will be good for you Asa. :)Quote:
An example would be his tender, clarity of the love and innocence the human soul can omit. His attention to detail in a "squeezed for time" style of writing is more than entertaining. Moving is a good word I feel. Capote shows enviable balance with his words, and I have often found myself, returning to a paragraph and catching my breath, enjoying the view.
When describing beauty, capote uses excellent personification, and I have honestly enjoyed this piece of writing. I never found an issue with the new characters or the undeveloped original players. Probably because I have never been fond of the "stay with the same, boring characters/issues throughout a single novel." I sincerely enjoyed this novella. Bravo Truman, Bravo.
Asa
I suspect that this is a younger person's novel. Capote himself was only in his twenties when he wrote it. The simple theme (childhood world-good, adult world-bad) probably appeals to youth. The quirky undeveloped characters too seems like a young person's vision. I may be too old for this novel.
Thanks for making me feel so welcome again, friend.Quote:
Originally Posted by Virgil
You are right Virgil, when you say that there are well written passages, but I think that to extend a view higher than the original simplicity of the singular theme to the story, we end up dissecting this Novella, to which hardly needs operation. It is a novella, and staying within the parameters of this style of short story telling, it is difficult to dissasemble it, (one with such a simple theme at least.)
I felt that the theme was indeed structured around reminisant youth, and further more its impact on the audience was a warm - somewhat anxious sort of read. I found with the vulnerability of collin, his incessent longing for the warm kitchen, and endearment for everything sweet that Dolly created, and with his continual fascination with Riley, the basic foundation for an older youth who has had the short end of the stick, never having a real childhood. Socially handicapped in many ways.
So in that sense, you may feel that this story is geared towards a youthful audience, however, a better view of it all may come from the boundries that Love indeed creates throughout the structured novella.
Example - When Judge Cool tells his heart wrenching story that he has kept a penpal as a dear friend ever since his wife died. He lives another life, experience love, jealousy, and hope as the young penpal grows up, and indeed The Judge too, grows with his new experiences.
Example - The writing in this story feels legitimate, as Capote describes the land that consumes our characters; "you will soon pass a glaring hill of bonewhite slabs and brown burnt flowers" Imedieately, We are drawn to the sense that Collin is estranged from his family. Again I quote "As I was getting out of the car, he tried to hug me, But I was scared of him and wriggled out of his arms." Once again, Truman Capote is pouring a foundation for a character who enevitably finds himself departed from his family, only to start a new one with Dolly, and Catherine.
Example-Another example of beauty in the words is the description of the lost lives that have found themselves forever caught in the indian grass of old. When the winds pick up, and the lives of past generations pour across the sun burnt reeds, echoes of voices can be heard through out the land. Something of poetry, I would say.
I think for now that is good enough. Please tell me what you think, Virgil :D
Good points, Asa. Yes, Colin's vulnerability is quite apparent. In fact the novel starts with the vulnerability. Hmm, I hadn't considered Colin's childhood as the developing narrative structure for the novel. (Actually I had, but the novel focuses so much on one incident that I forgot.) His childhood reflects Dollly's frozen childhood.Quote:
Originally Posted by Asa Adams
Can you explain what you mean by "boundries that love creates? I'm not sure I understand.
You mention Colin's relationship with Riley. I found this passage memorable:
I must admit that I've used boys peeing as a event for masculine bonding in a couple of stories. ;)Quote:
We headed toward the river, Riley leading the way. The legs of his canvas trousers whispered against each other. Every little bit he stopped and stretched himself, as though he'd been riding on a train. Somewhere he came to hill of already about and busy red ants. Riley unbuttoned his fly and began to flood them; I don't know that it was funny, but I laughed to keep him company. Naturally I was insulted when he switched around and peed on my shoe. I thought it meant he had no respect for me. I said to him why would he want to do a thing like that? Don't you know a joke? he said, and threw a hugging arm around my shoulder.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Virgil
Ha good points. I didn't connect dolly to collin that way. Good show.
The boundries are what I defined the china tree to be. How each character, memorable to the story, expresses their experiences of love in the tree house. Hope that clarifies some things!
Asa
Finished reading the book yesterday and I quite like it. As many above stated, Capote's narrative is beautiful and easy to read. The characters are mostly impressive (even though you don't necessarily like all of them).I don't find Colin dull; I do agree that he is the type of person who would silently observe and record things around him (kind of like Nick in Gatsby). And that makes him a special person in his own right, in my opinion. He reminiscences and shares one of the most outstanding events of his youth with us.Quote:
Originally Posted by SleepyWitch
Re. names: They sound like childish nicknames to me. Judge Cool because he is a 'cool' person. Sheriff Candle: Someone you can shape easily - like wax? (like Verena did).
Wow, Interesting point, Scher, I didn't notice that before. Keen Observation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Scheherazade
Asa
I just finished the Book, I rated it as average but I consider it a charming little read. From what I've read it's slightly autobiographical as Capote did go live with two older female cousins for a short period of time.
I agree, I think the last line of the story sums it all up:Quote:
I don't find Colin dull; I do agree that he is the type of person who would silently observe and record things around him (kind of like Nick in Gatsby). And that makes him a special person in his own right, in my opinion. He reminiscences and shares one of the most outstanding events of his youth with us.
"it was a grass harp, gathering, telling, a harp of voices remembering a story. We listened."
Thanks for that quote, Papaya; it does sum it all up and it is a nice touch that the story's end echos its beginning.Quote:
Originally Posted by papayahed
I didn't know that the story had autobiographical notes in it. Capote seems to have a rather interesting life (considering his To Kill A Mockingbird connections as well).
Glad I checked in. Unfortunately I got the book so late from my library - they had to order it from the main system - so I had not come into the discussion. I was disappointed about that. I am nearly done the book now - I hope to finish it tonight. I really like it and find the story charming and nostalgic. I don't think you are too old for the book, Virgil. You may have just been looking at it in a different light or it was not what you expected. Everyone has brought up very good points about this book which enriches my own reading now...things I had not exactly thought of. Asa has written some really good thoughts on the book. I find many beautiful passages, also; now I wish I had bought the book. I would check back on some parts later on...many are so poetic. When I started reading it, I saw it right away as a Novella and not to be confused with a novel, also from the young man's point of view. I have the film adaptation on a tape, so I am anxious to see it when I finish my reading. I heard the film is quite good. I think someone saw it - mentioned on the thread where the book was being voted on for the month. I forget who it was now.
I am not at all bored and always am anxious to read more the next night, so that must say something for it. Now I am looking forward to reading "Breakfast at Tifany's" since I just saw the film after many years. Years ago I read "In Cold Blood" - it was very well written, but not an easy book to take. Probably why Capote gave up novel writing after that book.
[QUOTE=Janine;339926]
I am not at all bored and always am anxious to read more the next night, so that must say something for it. QUOTE]
Hey Janine,
I agree. I was always anticipating the next page, or the next character. I have found that Capote wrote with such knowledge of Beauty and his ability to describe life and the the things around him was brilliant, and very charming.
As soon as I heard we were going to read the grass harp I immediately bought a copy the next day. Luckily It came with the collected short stories of his including Master Misery. I am not sure if all the copies came like this, but this one publication did by chance. If you have the choice, go for the novella/short stories copy. It is well worth it!
Asa
Oh I had forgotten to vote here. I gave it the best I could, and that was average. I was not overwhelmed.
Overwhelmed with the books greatness that you were confused and voted poorly!? :lol: Kidding Virg. Glad you voted!
:lol: You are too funny Asa. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Asa Adams
I am probably a little late here:yawnb: , but could anyone please explain what "banana-boned" means:
Languid, banana-boned, she had dour black hair and an apathetic, at moments saintly face-in an enamel locket worn around her lily-stalk neck she preserved a miniature of her missionary father.
(it's about Riley's sister Elizabeth, ch. 4)
P.S. I think the book is absolutely brilliant.
I recommend a tale of disapproving in-laws called "My Side of the Matter" which is also in the book... Rather funny.
Two other great shorts are included in Breakfast At Tiffany's: "A Christmas Memory" and "A Diamond Guitar".
If you like Capote be sure to see the movies "Capote" and "Infamous". The first is darker but brilliant and the second tells basically the same story but is very funny.