Printable View
Hannah-
I think that Boxer was killed by the pigs because there was no more use for him. Also the profit of selling him to a glue/marshmallower could help pay for other needs. The pigs were evil dictators. What they couldn't use, had no reason to be on the farm. Who wants clutter? Probably what they thought. It's sad, but true!
i totally agree with myah. the pigs would promise all the animals retirement to keep them happy, but they would be unable to, or more likely, just didnt want to spend the food and energy to keep animals around that could nto work anymore.
sry spelled maiya wrong
off da topic but id b sick to have a giant pj party sometime
So... uh... How long does everyone think that Animal Farm stayed 'intact' after the book? But I guess I'm acually asking how long was the Russian Revolution? Were the dogs representing followers of Stalin/Napoleon?
http://website.limeone.net/~jbonno/g...es/anfarm1.jpg
Ben Lurie! You spelled my name incorrectly! M-A-I-Y-A!!!!! :flare:
You anger me!
I agree with MAIYA & ben!! I think they ditched Boxer because he would no longer be an asset to them as he was no longer working. so much for a relaxing retirement ... I hated the pigs after that happened. ...even more then i did before.
p.s. yes ben, a giant pajama party would be rather amazing
Happy vacation everyone !!
now myra lets not get upset over silly impertinent things such as who spelled who's name wrong!
maiya-i think that the russian revolution never really ended. the system that was set up is still inplace today, but a bit different, the pigs are still in power, aka the politburo. i dont think anythign has changed but mabe im wrong
hey theres a page 4 how confusing....
i agree with maiya, ben and everyone else about the whole boxer issue....back to jenny's comment on page 3.i think that the pigs may have started out to be against the humans, but as it shows in the book they gradually start to become like the humans....and to the commandments, they started to have more to them than the animals remember. who changed the commandments?(getting a little confused):confused:
i am with bailey about the pigs.:flare:
p.s. ben....where did u get having a huge pj party from?!?!?!?!?:confused:
:ladysman:-still my favorite one!
I totally agree with all of you except one thing yeah the pigs really couldn't change into humans so is the author using symbolism or are the animals just stupid and think that they are humans
that Pj party was really random
sry just trying to see if my picture works
I think this whole book is a HUGE example of symbolism. Seriously, every person, place, thing, or idea, is there to represent a part of the Russian Revolution. I am excited to learn about the actual events and ppl.
heres a question thatll hopefully get some pple pissed off:
the pigs had a right to lead and be harsh on the other animals because of their intelligence. without the pigs they would have no food or anything because they are all too stupid to do anything for themselves. the whole farm depends on the pigs because without that the animals would not even know how to grow their own food. therefore the pigs have a right to take certain liberties like getting all the food because they are so important and actually, they saved the animals.
so uh ben. who's haleigh and sarah???
haleigh and sarah are pple i know from da bay :)
i agree with ben on the subject of the pigs, as much as i hate to say it givin the situation, the farm did need leaders, or the farm would have gone into chaos<---sp? but i dont think they needed all the special liberties they gave themselves, i think the pigs got greedy and let the power go to their heads
i agree with sam. the pigs seriously didnt need to give themselves all the luxuries that they did. i think that they knew that if they said it was right, all the other animals would believe it. so they just got power hungry and used it to their advantage.
i completely agree with sam and cheyenne! i rather dislike the pigs!:flare: the pigs became so greedy, just like the humans in the beggining of the book.
Have a happy holidays everyone!!!!!!!!:D :santasmil
In regard of Kristen's comment, i agree. The pigs were the ones to start the whole "Revolution" against the humans, but in the end they figured the only way for the farm to survive is to have control. If there was no control then the farm wouldve turned into massive chaos. All of the other animals were too uninteligent to stand up and say what was happening was wrong.
what i really dont understand is after the pigs took control and started running it just as the humans were, they had the dogs share control of the farm by guarding them. My question is why did the dogs not trasform into human like animals as the pigs did? was it because the dogs did not share part in the intellegence?
pretty much dude, the dogs r just they're muscle. they didnt know **** they were just there doing whatever napoleon told them too. kinda like secret police. they were really mean and nasty like the pigs but not by nature but because hte pigs trained them to be like that. in away, the dogs were as taken advantage of as the rest of the animals
so the dogs seemed as if they were put above the rest of the animals but they were really under Napolean's control also because he raised them so they would do anything he told them right?
yes mitchell, the dogs were under the control of Napoleon.....just like all of the other animals on the farm. the dogs were somewhat above the animals but very slightly........the dogs were only treated like they were above the other animals because they could protect...and like it was discussed in an earlier thread, the dogs were trained when they were young puppies by the pigs. the dogs only obeyed Nappoleon because they did not know anything better.
p.s. mitchell, i like ur picture!:lol:
:ladysman: :goof:
what happened to the older dogs did they die and the only dogs left were the ones who were raised by napolean? I think if there were more dogs left because they were also smart but not smarter than the pigs they might have started a revolution.
P.S. thx
Yes, I agree that the dogs were raised by Napoleon. But that's for a selfish reason. He uses the dogs to attack his opponents,especially, Snowball. This is eveident in the dogs' chasing out of Snowball from the Animal Farm. As Conn noted, what becomes of the dogs is not clear in the novel. I think, however, that they too continue their lives in the farm like the rest of the animals and end up like other animals do, transforming into human beings or, perhaps, what stands for human beings.
Hi everyone! Xmas is here, you guys should send wishes to me because I just joined you and hope to contribute immensely.:lol: :banana: :wave:
so if all the dogs are gone which im not sure they are wont all the dogs be raised to protect Napolean and only napolean? and back to bens comment before I think that yes the farm wouldn't be able to survive without the pigs and I think that pigs deserved some reward but they went a little overboard.
i think that the dogs would be raised to protect the pigs and the pigs only. like in the book the dogs protected all of the pigs. Napoleon was the leader so the dogs would respect and look up to Napoleon.....and yes the pigs did go overboard on everything:flare:
:ladysman: :D
yeah its weird thou because if the dogs turned on snowball then the next batch had to be taught to respect all of them because the first clan was ready to kill snowball
Question: Why do we all think that the animals confessed to lies about talking to Snowball, how do we know that they aren't all true?
All the animals in Animal Farm represent a different facet of the Russian October Revolution of 1917. The dogs represent the military, which was constantly controlled and pruged first by Lenin (Old Major) and then by Napolean (Stalin). Snowball represents Trotsky who was exiled by Stalin (and later killed in Mexico by an ice-pick wielded by a Mexican Communist with NKVD secret service connections) because Trotsky was Lenin's most probable intended succesor whose Communism differed vastly from Stalin's Totalitarian dictatorship and becaise while Trotsky was a primary figure in the Russian Revolution (Bothe Febuary and October revolutions) Stalin was a minor figure in the original struggle and an unknown prior to Lenin's death. As a result, the dogs didn't turn on Trotsky (Snowball) but were rather sicced on him by Stalin (Napoleon).Quote:
Originally Posted by Hannahpanda
As for the lies about talking to Snowball, they represent the purges Stalin initiated before and after consolidating his power in 1923. They certainly were lies as Stalin's interrogators were not interested in the truth, but rather concerned with finding excuses to purge his enemies, and by torture and other means he forced people belonging to other parties and people who were a threat to him to admit to crimes, especially colaborating with foreign governments and other "counter-revolutionaries" like he branded Trotsky, so that he could punish them and show the people that he was vigilant in purging the country of "seditious elements." In Stalin's interrogations the truth was something that was maleable and unimportant. He exercised arrest quotas for districts and consequently people guilty of no crimes would be arrested simply to fill the quota to claim they were "vigilant in enforcing the standards of the Revolution."
Well Hannah we don't for sure know that all of the confessions were true, but based on the previous knowledge that Napolean has put forth it is hard to believe that he did not have anything to do with the confessoins involving Snowball. I believe Naploen somehow manipulated and tricked the other animals into believing that they recall Snowball having something to do with the mishaps on the farm and were in someway involved with his "skeeming"
In real life, if you are to be called a pig you are being reffered to selfish or greedy and so I believe that George Orwell portrayed Napolean and the other pigs as pigs and not some other animal because he wanted to symbolize them as being greedy and hungry for more.:rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Fe: I agree, I think that the pigs were pigs and the author put thought into what each animal would be and what it represented. Pigs are smart, though, too, so it may not have entirely been based on the greed factor. But I think your assumption is pretty accurate
but what i still dont get is y the animals would confess...even if they did the crime or not...i mean after the first animal was killed wouldnt you think theyd get the hint and not say anything if they valued their life?
so im guess what im asking is why did they confess?
from what SheykAbdullah says they were not nessecarily true but napoleans way of eliminating people that were not true followers, i believe they confessed because they never thought napolean would harm them from what the commandments told them at the time untill he "modified" the commandmentsQuote:
Originally Posted by SheykAbdullah
I agree with Mitchell, but I would also like to add that they weren't very smart to begin with so some of the animals may not have understood what was happening exactly and just followed in the other animals paths and confessed to their crimes...whether they were true or not.
I have a queston. Why didn't the other animals catch on to how the 7 commandments changed and were being altered? I mean most of the animals caught Squeeler in the act of changing the commandments, he had the paint brush in hand, the paint by his side, and had a ladder to give him a boost.