Halloween Read: The Legend of Sleepy Hollow

i think so because icahbod had such a high opinion
of himself and perhaps, just perhaps the black participants
were actually laughing AT him

the whole thing is so funny
i cant believe it is considered a scary story

whats funny?

the story

yes thats why Im saying is it a satire

satire of what?
ohh i dont know that part of the Us where is it
anyway

and the women miostly the women I think

NY me thinks

the story is mostly about and aimed at them

state not city

i think it might be a spoof of all the witchy things
that really were supposed to have occured through the U.S.
and back then, at least according to books i have read,
people were very spiritual and believed deeply in signs and
portents and every strange thing that occured, always
ascribing to it a supernatural cause. and it wrecked many
people's lives because they were sort of like the horoscope
readers of today that swear by them and live by
them. it is just a thought. perhaps irving thought is
slightly mad, who knows

yes andd that lead to another question but did
anyone notice the mention of high german doctor?
anyway Mesmer ( of Animal mesmerism 0 from whom we
get the word mesmerise
hypnosiss actually
was around oh at the time Irving was in his youth
so I though could it be a snide remark aboutr him,?

very interesting

what does all crane's eating and enormous appetite
signify anyway?

The seven deadly sins!! ( always usefull in literature:brow:)

do you think he really has a heart, i mean does he
actually care for anyone but himself on any level.?

pride,greed,lust anger,gluttony, envy and sloth or
laziness,oh that seven.
yupp

so is icabond like all good caricture a big
exageration of somthing and in this case what and can we
connect him to the seven?
or iis Bones rage?

Quote:

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Such was the formidable rival with whom Ichabod
Crane had to contend, and, considering all things, a
stouter man than he would have shrunk from the competition,
and a wiser man would have despaired. He had, however, a
happy mixture of pliability and perseverance in his nature;
he was in form and spirit like a supple-jack—yielding, but
tough; though he bent, he never broke; and though he bowed
beneath the slightest pressure, yet, the moment it was
away—jerk!—he was as erect, and carried his head as high as
ever.

---

this passage is so funny

why is that passage funny?

it is so sarcastic
so... tongue in cheek!

well the list is growing :brow:
1. Women are the source of all evil”. In the light of this statement Sleepy hollow??
2. Vanity as in icabond, bones, and Katrina?
3. Is Icabopnd crane likable?
4. Sarcasm and satire?
5. Bones?
6. Adaptations---please limit the Johnny Deppying ;)
7. Katrina Van Tassel?
8. High German doctor reference To Mesmer?
9. Is it just about the power of superstion?
10. Seven deadly sins and Icabond.
11. whats it really about?
12. spooky ?
13. generally women in the story.
14. fav part?
15. Has it ever happened to you?

nightshade, you really got into this one. I'm glad you brought this story up because I never read Irvings original version. I only knew of the adaptations. For your information, the story is listed under Irving on this site. There is also some other interesting bits included. I'm not even going to try to answer the questions you raised but I did enjoy the read. I am going to add this to my holloween tradition for years to come.

I read the story, but wasn't really enthousiastic. Maybe it was the language, sometimes I didn't get it. And in my point of view, it wasn't very suprising, from the beginning I had the idea something would happen to Icabond.

Maybe it's just me, I think I prefer novels above short stories, mostly I miss the deeper meaning...

so does anyone else think maybe vanity was Icabonds downfall??

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nightshade

so does anyone else think maybe vanity was Icabonds downfall??

---

Ichabod didn't really have a downfall, except from the horse. Ichabod won. He got away for there and didn't get stuck with Katrina. This story is an example of winning by appearing to lose.

maybe, but it depends on whose version you take doesnt it?
the wives or the farmer??
:D

"The old country wives, however, who are the best judges of these matters, maintain to this day that Ichabod was spirited away by supernatural means; and it is a favorite story often told about the neighborhood round the winter evening fire."

This sets this ending as a typical "old wives tale"; that is, it is not to be believed except as entertainment. Consider the alternative:

" It is true, an old farmer, who had been down to New York on a visit several years after, and from whom this account of the ghostly adventure was received, brought home the intelligence that Ichabod Crane was still alive; that he had left the neighborhood, partly through fear of the goblin and Hans Van Ripper, and partly in mortification at having been suddenly dismissed by the heiress; that he had changed his quarters to a distant part of the country; had kept school and studied law at the same time, had been admitted to the bar, turned politician, electioneered, written for the newspapers, and finally had been made a justice of the Ten Pound Court."

This version contains an assertion that someone had spoken with Mr Crane, whence the information "that he had left the neighborhood, partly through fear of the goblin and Hans Van Ripper, and partly in mortification at having been suddenly dismissed by the heiress", and there appear to have been other reports that contain some of the other information.

The wives claim requires that extra-ordinary events, creatures, etc. happened without them producing any evidence, while the farmer's story contains information that was obtained from the party involved.
If your next door neighbor disappeared one day, and three years later two people claimed that they knew what happened to him. One said that he had been kidnapped by aliens and was now on one of the moons of Jupiter, while the other said that he had run into him in a city a thousand miles away where he had fled from an unhappy marriage. Which one would you believe?

Nightshade,

I certainly believe Icabod was vain, not to mention a glutton. Icabod is a classic example of a mock hero. I mean, just look at the passage as he is getting ready to go to the feast. Yes, some readers like him because of the humor involved in these situations, but Irving certainly does not like icabod. Icabod is an unwelcome guest in Sleepy Hollow. I recently wrote a literary analysis on this very subject, but I hesitate to post it on a public forum.

-oni

i'd definitely believe about the aliens.
this ichabod reminds me of so many guys i have met, and girls if it comes to that. they are totally self absorbed and relate every single thing to themselves and whether that thing or person or place will stoke their ego, furnish them with 'happiness' and prosperity.
i feel sick in my stomach at the cold blooded way old icky took a look at the kind and hard working mr. van Tassel who the book says had no prideful attitude about his prosperity. to ichabod he was simply a means to an end as were every one from the humblest school child who had a pretty sister to katrina, plump and pretty katrina. I realize she was a coquette, a flirt, but the schoolmaster was older and considering he was bad ugly had to play a pretty mean game to try to win her.
he had to run because A- he woke up with a bump on the head and saw the pumpkin and realized Brom had had sport with him and shamed him.
B-Katrina also had beat him at his own game all the while knowing it was Brom she would walk down the aisle with.
So he picked up and fled and used a whole new group of people for his own means far far away.
i detest him.

Didn't get to join in, because 1.) I have no chat line up and 2.) I was and am very sick at the moment but the book remains one of my favorites. Shoot me if you wish, Night. Right now I'm not certain I'd mind too much...... :sick: http://www.websmileys.com/sm/sad/1346.gif

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rachel

i'd definitely believe about the aliens.
he had to run because A- he woke up with a bump on the head and saw the pumpkin and realized Brom had had sport with him and shamed him.
B-Katrina also had beat him at his own game all the while knowing it was Brom she would walk down the aisle with.
So he picked up and fled and used a whole new group of people for his own means far far away.
i detest him.

---

I don't especially like any of the characters. Sure Ichabod was out for number one, so was Katrina, and so was Brom. The most likeable character might have been Mr Van Tassel.
When he woke up with the pumpkin beside him, he probably realized that he didn't have anything to gain by staying. There are people who would have stayed around and tried a comeback. Ichabod didn't make that mistake.

Well, it's All Hallow's Eve tonight as I'm typing this and I'm a little (a lot?) late but here's my two cents. :)

I've never seen the cartoon or movie so I can't compare it. I read through this fairly quickly at work and actually thought it was a little boring. I thought all the signs of what was going to happen were laid out so thick that one couldn't help but see what lied ahead.

I did think the statement about women being worse than monsters more or less was accurate - for a man that is and especially at the time it was written though women may not realize it they (we) spin them around till they don't know if they're coming or going.

So I liked that admission but I didn't really care for Ichabod because he was really full of himself but I did admire how he could blend in with everyone and even got around Brom Bones.

I liked Brom Bones probably best because he wasn't mean spirited or really sneaky until the end and that was rather well deserved I thought and funny.

Didn't have an opinion of Katrina. It's hard to tell where she was coming from.

I just thought all the build up to superstition was too much so maybe that turned me off. I felt like it was forced down my throat. If it had been less I might have enjoyed the story better. But the story feels like it's just poking fun more than anything. Guess everyone won in the end though.

Finally, NIght thanks for taking so much time setting this up. I forgot about the chat but probably couldn't have participated anyway. Anyway it was an interesting read and I'm glad I read it.

well firstly I am sorry I didn't join the chat, I wanted to but I coulnd't, I was very busy and didn't have time at all. but I did read the story and I prefer the movie better. as Erna said I wasn't so enthusiatic while reading it, I don't know why but I just didn't like the story so much. I also expected that something happens to Ichabod... I didn't like that the whole time it is as if trying to be spooky but in the end you're dssapointed because it doesn't seem spooky at all. I do agree with some guys that said that Ichabod is yuk. he is... he is described as a caricature but still he is full of himself and he feels as if he is the most handsome guy there. I don't like his attitude at all. and I do think it's a satire... the story had so many unknown words for me and I felt lost in some parts but that much that I understood made me think all this. but then again it was a good read, I'm happy I read it... :)

The story was definitely satirical and not to be taken too seriously. I enjoyed the voice of the piece, the narrator used the voice of a storyteller and the descriptions were often in-depth, but not boring. Overall I liked it.

One thing that stuck out and distracted me in my reading was the racism. I am not promoting censorship; in fact, I think this is a part of our history that it would a travesty to forget. Still the racism rubbed me because it was not done in the style of other authors, like Twain, who use racist characters or social situations to show the flaws in this prejudice. Instead the author used racist terms to describe African-American characters as matter of fact.

The racism was timely for the piece, but I still didn't like it and found it distracting.

you are absolutely right about the racism. it made me angry and i couldn't help thinking how wierd that anyone with a soul wouldn't think even THINKING like that was sickening and disgusting.
I love your little avatar. It reminds me of one in black and white on ART Passions in the Peter Pan section. I fell in love with it as soon as I saw it.

As a person of color I must add my two cents once again. I actually stopped reading the story when I came to the description of the Negro deliverer. It definitely gave me pause however I took a few minutes to think it over and then decided to finish it. I finished it because I found the descriptions were not particularly prejudiced or mean spirited but simply how he saw Negroes to be at that time. Callous, too casual? It simply was the way the world was then. In fact, after I finished the story I had completely forgotten about it – didn’t even think about it until it was mentioned.

Funny it actually reminded me of Sir Walter Scott whom I enjoy for the most part but he has a most unflattering way of describing Negroes more so than in this story. So coming from one whom it could have offended it didn't once I thought about it. Things like that happen all the time I've discovered even in a song like Lumberjack Rabbit better known as Jimmy Crack Corn and in a book like Little House on the Prairie which also gave me pause when I was reading it to my children when they were younger.

Basically it’s the way the world was and one can fume over it but there’s no point as there’s nothing we can do about it now. The story was okay, odd that it was supposed to be scary but then again perhaps it was scary for that day and age. Time changes many things. And now I’m stepping off my soap box. :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Darlin

The story was okay, odd that it was supposed to be scary but then again perhaps it was scary for that day and age. Time changes many things.

---

Scary, no. It was written as a humorous story. If you read any more of Washington Irving, it will become clear that he wrote funny stories with a sarcastic twist to them.

Aw, thanks for clearing that up. I truly wondered at that.

Darlin, what a fine mind and a big heart as well as a great spirit you have. people like you make the world a much more bearable place.

icabond crane what you think?

I didn't like him
I liked him in the movie, the real people one, but the book: nope!

umm i think this more or less covered most of our opinions earlier
umm what did you think of icabond most people didnt like hinm i thought he was yuck

I didn't like him was what I was saying above
I found him... annoying
And I kept wanting to rewrite his character

i think the whole thing is very funny

maybe
wait i already agreed it was funny yes its funny

It is sort of a stupid story, in a sense. I mean, it did get made into a children's movie

and pg 12A one too

Depends on which version

humm

The cartoon I watched as a child was right from the story
Yep

why is it a halloween story?
i dont get it

Because it doesn't fit in with any other season?
I am not sure what Halloween was when it was written
It just seems to fit with the Halloween. I am surprised I haven't seen a version of it on tv

Spooky story + Halloween = Spooky Halloween Story

but its not spookey!

I think it is for its time

Maybe not anymore, but in his time there weren't nine million scary movies.

but its sarcastic

I think it is supposed to be unbelievable

poking fun at the people wh belive the stories whats schers word oh yes tounge in the cheek

Well, the two stories I know by him well are both unbelievable ones, humorous fiction in a sense

yes he wrote the one about the guy who went to sleep for 100 years, didnt he?

Rip Van Winkle


Has this ever happened to you?
that was a question you could use

ok 15 has this ever happened to you?

Has what ever happened to you? Getting chased by a headless horseman?

yes

Well, that question won't take much debate

yes it happened or yes thats the q?

OK so noone got chased iv crossed that off the list and icabond crane ok what did everyone think of katrina?

not much

I really like the descriptions in the story

I like them too

so did i actually

they are all very clever and funny

my fav part is the beginging the decripition of sleepy hollow

yes and pumpkins appear signs of halloween

i had a lot of fun reading it

where was that --man i read the story twice and i still miss things *sigh*

I liked the descr. of Ikybods horse.

i like the farmer he nicked the saddle off

I can't remember descriptions, I didn't reread the story so it has been a while

I can't remember descriptions, I didn't reread the story so it has been a while

Quote:

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Dutch country tea-table, in the sumptuous time of autumn. Such heaped up platters of cakes of various and almost indescribable kinds, known only to experienced Dutch housewives! There was the doughty doughnut, the tender olykoek, and the crisp and crumbling cruller; sweet cakes and short cakes, ginger cakes and honey cakes, and the whole family of cakes. And then there were apple pies, and

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I guess I just like the story in general

He is a very descriptive author, Rip van Winkle is the same way

is that good somtimes it can get boring?

I don't mind in short stories, I find it worse in novels
this one doesn't feel boring

no not really
so now can we talk about katrina??

sure

You know what, she isn't very memorable

not mentioned all that much

yes but coquette / women are evil

laughs

shes the waht catayst that th whole story is about if you look at it one way
and not important in another
depends if you belive the farmer or the wives

I hardly remember her was my point

men treat her materialistically so she makes the most of it
none of the men is interested in her
but her wealth
and the fact that she will inherit the farm

are they? I thoought bones was after her

i dont think so

it is emphasised that she is the heiress

Yeah, she inherits

she was also described as a plump peach on her father's tree

the descriptions are brilliant

yes but peach= beauty in some stories of the time ( The shuttle/t.tembaron etc)
so it could be that she is the link to his wealth that can be taken away?

or just another thing grown on that farm

I think it is a material reference to her though

and planted to give somenelse wealth?

dowry


ohwell ok whats the story about??

I think the end of the story was more about how ones imagination can get the best of them

yess so is the story about superstion power of imagination?
oh look at allt hese feeble minded folk what ever will they belive next?

I like how the story of Ickybod is told about the neighborhood

huh?
so hes waht held out as an example?
or as a great horror story?

He becomes a legend
but the funny thing is
hey will describe him as a dandy
city folk /country folk

yes which is why theyd rather he was taken to the depest pitts of hell than have run away and become famous
i mean successful
so is it ( the story about that i0 anybody no matter how ill fitting can become a hero

perhaps I don't think the stories told will portray him as heroic

what do you think then

I think that he becomes a sort of mockery, a tale of man that avoided confrontation, but lost when confronted.
To become another story to scare those willing to listen

ohh ypu know the referance to the high gferman doctotr do you recon its a refernce to mesmer ( as in the animal mesmerrisim/hypnosis dude??)

maybe

Again sorry it took so long!
:blush: