fayefaye
Read one flew over the cukoo's nest...
it has a guy in there who pretends to be mute... and the author has some really good ideas as to why we should pretend to be mute... (or something like that)
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fayefaye
Read one flew over the cukoo's nest...
it has a guy in there who pretends to be mute... and the author has some really good ideas as to why we should pretend to be mute... (or something like that)
Not just mute, but deaf too. :)
Seriously does anyone have any info on what Salinger has been doing since he dropped out of sight? Does he give interviews?Quote:
Originally posted by Dick Diver
His other published work is excellent too - I do hope he has been writing all these decades and not just masturbating or something.....;)
Jonus
fayefaye- have you read it?
(you are right of course)...
I have yet to find someone who has also read that book... I absolutely LOVE it...
I've read it twice so far... bought the book from the library... :-D (they were going to discard it after the next book sale)
No. ... but sometimes I pretend I'm deaf too. ;) I don't even know who it's by....?
It's by Ken Kesey if I'm not mistaken and understand you wanted the author of the One Fly Over the Cuckoo's Nest...
Thank gawd that there's at least one illuminating post on this whole thread. I was hoping for some interesting discussion on this controversial book, but alas, none is to be found.Quote:
Originally posted by imthefoolonthehill
As a 16-year-old, I object. I have, like, a big vocabulary, dude!
By the way... Catcher in the Rye is a wonderful and inspiring book.
While the writing style may grow tiresome for some people, I believe it adds to the tone, as well as defining the style of the writing. It helps create the image of a teenager who doesn't give a **** about tradition or conformity. In fact, he hates all the phoniness around him. All the high-horsed freaks who talk like Harding from One Flew Over the Cukoo's Nest display phoniness in their language whereas Holden shows that we needn't use words no one understands to appear smart.
Oh... P.S. I love his ideas on Phoniness... it REALLY IS all around us.
And the thing is, I can't really add much to it. Obviously I prefer Salinger's Franny and Zooey, but I'd consider Catcher to be one of my favorite books as well. Problem is, I read it so long ago I don't really remember a whole lot of specifics. I do agree, as a teenager, that this is a book that tends to speak to teens more than any other age group. Holden embodies those of us who dare to break the mold and search for something deeper than the superficiality most teenagers (and people in general) are content to live their lives in. He may not be the best or the brightest or the most eloquent, but damn it, he's trying. Just for that I think he's one of the most fascinating characters in all of fiction.
Actually, I just received a copy of this book (the awesome reprint of the first edition) for Christmas, and was planning on giving it another look over Christmas break. Will add some thoughts when that actually happens.
Hmm... never really thought about this. It would be interesting (and wonderful) if after his passing (God forbid) a bunch of his work suddenly surfaces a la Kafka. Hopefully the man has been writing all this time.Quote:
Originally posted by Dick Diver
His other published work is excellent too - I do hope he has been writing all these decades and not just masturbating or something.....;)
And if he has been masturbating this whole time, hopefully at least he's enjoyed himself and feels that it was worth it in the end. ;)
All us teens should gather together to overthrow the stupid image that Nic has given to youth. And, yeah, I like the phoniness idea too. I've probably come across far worse phonies than Holden has.
Thanks for the compliment on my post, Zooey...
I got Catcher in the Rye for Christmas too... and have the same plans... if I can ever get through that *#%&@*(%& Scarlet Letter (Hawthorne)... it is so dry, it could soak up the pacific.
Why don't you throw it into the ocean and see what happens?
Don't do it Fool!!!!! OMG what if it really soaks up the pacific?
Jonus
lol. then I can make my trek to the US. :)
lol... I finally finished that... and I think you can start walking anytime, fayefaye
i was drawn to the book by its big fame as the most important book of the most important author so taken by many americans, for a reason i believe, that's their hero of their time. but for the style and language, forget it...
who is nic? Not the author... not Colden Haulfield... who?Quote:
Originally posted by fayefaye
All us teens should gather together to overthrow the stupid image that Nic has given to youth. And, yeah, I like the phoniness idea too. I've probably come across far worse phonies than Holden has.
never mind. hey, looks like it's time for my random quotes!
'I'm sort of glad they've got the atomic bomb invented. If there's ever another war, I'm going to sit right the hell on top of it. I'll volunteer for it, I swear to God I will'
'It's hopeless, anyway. If you had a million years to do it in, you couldn't rub out even half the 'F*ck you' signs in the world. It's impossible'
'I think, even, if I ever die, and they stick me in a cemetery, and I have a tombstone and all, it'll say 'Holden Caulfield' on it, and then what year I was born and what year I died, and then right under that it'll say 'F*ck you.' I'm positive, in fact.'
Don't know why I chose those....
You know, just because AbdoRinbo is gone, you don't have to fill his "pointless replies" void.
Why? The quotes are nice, I like to find quotes in books and I thought it was nice fay put hers...If u were referring to that.
I liked those quotes so much... they are going into my aim profile.
those are great quotes. Good call Faye.
I wanted to get a discussion going on how Holden thinks. You know, he sorta sounds a bit trapped, but is he really? Anyway, I like 'em. fool-what's an aim profile anyways?
I like to find quotes too, but I wasn't referring to that post specifically. Nevermind :) .Quote:
Originally posted by Koa
Why? The quotes are nice, I like to find quotes in books and I thought it was nice fay put hers...If u were referring to that.
fayefaye- an aim profile is uh... well first I should say what aim is...
It stands for Aol Instant Messenger. (I like msn better but my friends are all on aim)... anyways.. Aim gives you a place to talk about whatever... most people have quotes or say who they are... and they call it the aim profile.
To state the obvious - Holden doesn't want to grow up but feels it's too late and that he has to, and despises the corruption of the world he's awakened to. He wants to protect kids from the faults of adults, like the word "****" written all over Phoebe's school. He wants to catch all of the kids before they fall, maybe to stop them from having to grow up.
For some reason, I always interpreted the catcher in the rye as a psychologist. My English teacher frowned when I told him that.
I'll state the obvious first- I think Salinger's books are great- thogh I prefer the Glass books to Catcher. Catcher IS a favourite read though.Quote:
Originally posted by fayefaye
one of my fave things about it-it makes fun of Dickens.[delightful].
But faye, I never noticed the "makes fun of Dickens" bit- or am I forgetting something? Are we talking content or style here? I'm intrigued- information, please!:)
Sindhu.
like at the start when he refers to 'all that David Copperfield kind of crap', he also makes another reference to Dickens books later, can't pinpoint it now though. Might try to track it down later. I think it was a reference to Great Expectations, but can't remember at the moment.
Munro- I love your interpretation of it. The significance of the whole 'catcher in the rye' thing is something else I wanted to discuss.
Holden doesn't "diss" Dickens. I haven't read it and probably won't for a long time to come, but 'David Copperfield' begins with a really long introduction of family pasts and related stories that occurred before the story, it probably goes on for a chapter. So Holden begins the story without a long Dickensian introduction, not necessarily denouncing the novel. Just rejecting it's style.
uh... no... you misunderstood.... he didn't start out with a dickensian introduction... he starts out saying he hates stupidly long introductions like the one in David Copperfield.
Halfway through Catcher, but it's competing with two other books (not counting reading for class) for my attention. I'm falling in love with it all over again, though.Quote:
Originally posted by imthefoolonthehill
I got Catcher in the Rye for Christmas too... and have the same plans... if I can ever get through that *#%&@*(%& Scarlet Letter (Hawthorne)... it is so dry, it could soak up the pacific.
I understand and sympathize with you on Scarlet Letter. It's tough going, and I realized yesterday it's on the syllabus for one of my classes, so I'll be reading it again later this semester. I think I may enjoy it more now knowing the characters and themes going into it... and I also think Dimesdale (sp?) is one of the most interesting characters in fiction. But hopefully it'll be more, uh, interesting this time.
yeah-exactly. And the problem with Dickens is that he's boring and VERBOSE. (hehe faye's unresolved issues with Dickens)Quote:
Originally posted by imthefoolonthehill
uh... no... you misunderstood.... he didn't start out with a dickensian introduction... he starts out saying he hates stupidly long introductions like the one in David Copperfield.
i like dickens :(
I avoided Dickens for years, then last summer finally faced up to him. He beat my a$$. No, seriously I doff my cap to him - I love characters like the Aged in Great Expectations, they are very original and very strange. I think that Great Expectations is a masterpiece and SO not boring. He was obviously fettered by the needs of weekly publication and is prone to melodrama - but his reputation is founded on his unique imagination and confirmed by prose like at the end of A Tale Of Two Cities.
Ok i wasnt sure infact... :)Quote:
Originally posted by crisaor
I like to find quotes too, but I wasn't referring to that post specifically. Nevermind :) .
I know I underlined some sentences when i read it... I might quote them here but I'd have to translate them roughly...
I love when he says soemthing like 'don't tell anyone anything, otherwise you'd miss everyone'... or something like that...It's so true somehow...
I LIKE DICKENS! :)Quote:
Originally posted by IWilKikU
i like dickens :(
You really can't stand him, can you faye, Catcher is one of my favourite books, but I never picked on the Dickens angle as particularly important! Trust you to spot it!;)
hehe. I was teasing kik about dickens earlier-hence the tiny print. :) Here, I'll get more quotes for you to devour-
'Certain things they should stay the way they are. You ought to be able to stick them in one of those big glass cases and just leave them alone. I know that's impossible, but it's too bad anyway.'
'Game, my *ss. Some game. If you get on the side where all the hot-shots are, then it's a game, all tight - I'll admit that. But if you get on the other side, where there aren't any hot-shots, then what's a game about it? Nothing. No game.'
I HAVE to ask, do american's REALLY spell goodbye 'good-by'?? THAT'S CRAZY.
You told me I misunderstood, then backed up exactly what I was saying...your immense wit and insight seems to inverse itself sometimes.Quote:
Originally posted by imthefoolonthehill
uh... no... you misunderstood.... he didn't start out with a dickensian introduction... he starts out saying he hates stupidly long introductions like the one in David Copperfield.
Read posts more carefully before you refute them.
.
I love your sig, munro.
well, we're already off topic.
Have I ever told you that the Italian title of the book is just 'The Young Holden'? There's a note inside explaing the chatcher in the rye thing, but I guess they had no clue of how to translate it in a way that could sound good and have the same effect.
There's a quote I like.... It's towards the end, when Holden is at a teacher's house, I don't remember anything else. Rough translation by me (argh re-translating a translation, I feel like a murderer... I need to put my hands on an original copy, the language must be interesting... in the translation he sounds like comedians on tv shows that try to sound young but are close to be ridicolous...)
"Those who hurl down (??) are not allowed to realise not to feel when they touch the bottom. They just keep on hurling down. This beautiful chance is in the destiny of men who, in some moment of other of their life, looked for something their environment couldn't give them. Or that they thought their environment couldn't give them. So they stopped searching. They stopped before they even really started"
I think I liked it cos when I read the book I was feeling like that: falling down cos I had refused to try and fit in my environment, and I probably gave up before even starting to struggle...
GOT IT KOA!! It's one of my faves, too.
here;
'This fall I think you're riding for - it's a special kind of fall, a horrible kind. The man falling isn't permitted to feel or hear himself hit bottom. He just keeps falling and falling. The whole arrangement's designed for men who, at some time or other in their lives, were looking for something their own environment couldn't supply them with. Or they thought their own environment couldn't supply them with. So they gave up looking. The gave up before they ever really even got started.'