Catch-22, by Joseph Heller

I agree with your idea that Milo is a character used to portray the idea of human greed and selfishness, but I also have another thought to go with that. What about the idea that the overall meaning in the novel is more about survival than greed. The characters in the story are just trying to survive everything going on around them, and inside themselves. In the end it is survival that wins out too, Orr escapes the horror of the war, therefore somewhat becoming the hero of the novel because he survives. So maybe it is not a sole focus on greed but more of a deeper idea of "survival of the fittest".

This is in response to the fact the Robert E. Lee seems to dislike quite a few books...like I said in my response to your feeling that "Their Eyes Were Watching God" was a terrible book ( which I don't agree with at all), you obviously don't enjoy or appreciate Postmodern literature becuase "Catch-22" ( just like "Their Eyes..." is also a work of Postmodernism...so once again I would recommend you stick to more traditional novels, then maybe you won't have so much to criticize.

Hey call me a cynic, but I'm more critical of writing than not, I like to pick things apart, it also helps me find more of what I do like in a book when I allow myself to dislike parts of it. I rarely pick up a book first and just start reading. I want to know something of the author, I want to know a lot about the book first before I even consider reading it. So, maybe I pass up books I'd otherwise give a chance because I make up my mind about it before getting into the second chapter. (Depending on how long the chapters are mind you :P)

I wasn't very excited about this book when I first started reading it. It was twisty, hard to follow, and I wondered if it was going to lead anywhere. I am a big M*A*S*H fan and I happened to catch some of the re-runs while I was in the midst of this book. I started looking at every chapter as a different episode, just like M*A*S*H. Every chapter had one common thread (at least) and that was WWII. There was comedy and tragedy and ultimately survival. I think what I get from both, the book and the show, is that even the most noble and valiant causes can yield some insanity and confusion. I believe America's involvement is WWII was right but I think we sometimes get caught up in how these situations affect America and don't think about the effect on the individual American. This book outlined the motivations and reactions of individuals within a unified campaign.

in case anyone wondered... I did go back and reread catch-22... and it was worth every minute.

I'm also in the grop who can't stop rereading- so much so that it often interferes with reading new books! Sigh- if only there was world enough and time! I agree with gidgett about the survival of the fittest- in a demented world, you play along with even more demented schemes as Milo does and those are the ones who survive!

I think you are partiallay correct. There is genius in the Heller's flashbacks and forshadowing. However, the true genius lies in the cynicism which defines the entire book.

I think angel52pd is talking more about the TECHNICAL brilliance of the novel, while imthefoolon the hill is referring more to the tone or world view. Personally, I look for the atter primarily in a work, though ofcourse it is the former which makes the book "readable" :D

I am currently on page 140 of Catch-22, having finally picked it up after years of promising myself to read it one day.

Gotta say, I'm less than impressed with it. I do like Heller's style of writing, very Milliganesque - but where is the plot? Nothing is happening. It's just a whole bunch of blokes hanging around doing nothing - and there are so many of them, it's hard to remember which is which.

Anyone else think that this book doesn't live up to the hype?

Like you, I picked it up after many years of ignoring it and found it dreadfully dull. My limit for a book to "grab" me is 50 or 60 pages. You've done better than I did.

Well, I had to read the book for AP English last year, but I actually liked it. I'm not sure I would have picked it up on my own- or, if I had, whether I would have finished it- but I liked it once I got through to the end. Maybe Heller's jumbled plot (there -is- a plot, though you have to dig around some- it deals with the degeneration of Yossarian's base and troop.. and there -is- a coherent ending.) is problematic, but it makes more sense the further you get into the book- most of the confusion comes from the way the novel jumps around in time.

I'd say it's worth the effort. :-)

-K

personally i love catch 22-
you'll find lots of themes there, from insanity, friendship, stupidity, hope, pragmatism. many stupid conversation between characters yet those conversations have deep meanings. i got this book from a charity event, and didnt knew who heller was till i read this book. is a great book. webster college dictionary even put the word 'catch 22' in its list of words.

Catch-22 is genious... if you have the mental capacity to enjoy it... (it doesnt take much, guys... hang in there)

fool and sub know where the taste of chaos is expereinced, just keep reading it, part of the point is in that jumble

2004.09.25 07:45(gmt+2)

Of course I agree with everyone! Having read all of Mr Heller's writs, the problem appears to be that Catch 22 specifically has not "aged" very well. Seriously, up to 20 years after its publication this book appears to have been more widely acclaimed than it is today. Simply put: man's perception regarding what constitutes a good read has passed C22 by.

The good news being that one can still enjoy an excellent read in somewhat similar vein: "Castle Keep" ( by William Eastlake) is about a small detachment of soldiers, during the second world war, occupying a castle to strenghten a line of defence.Said castle eventually representing life itself, representing each and every occupant's reason for existence.

Make no mistake: you will laugh and laugh and laugh, crying for each and everyone you will meet, remembering them as being part of yourself. All characters are mad, madly believable, making the most of life, living it to the fullest extent possible.

In some regards it is not unlike Catch 22, but has aged much better, and a gem is to be found on virtually every page.The uniques of these gems are that you will split your sides laughing at the seriousness of life!

I must include this book on my list of one of the ten most enjoyable I ever had the privilege to read. Now, if only one of you would read it!

Sincerely your's,
Prof.

Quote:

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Gotta say, I'm less than impressed with it. I do like Heller's style of writing, very Milliganesque - but where is the plot? Nothing is happening. It's just a whole bunch of blokes hanging around doing nothing - and there are so many of them, it's hard to remember which is which.

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There is a plot, which runs through the book and several different threads as well... It is true that it requires careful reading, but it is worth the effort. It is a little like eating walnuts actually... You have to struggle to break the shell but once you are in there, it is delicious :nod:

Please don't give up and carry on reading!