The Third Man - Graham Greene

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Originally Posted by Ecurb

I've never read any of Greene's novels, although I've read some short stories. So I don't have an opinion one way or another. If Fussell is right about Greene's prose, perhaps the lesson in that elegant and correct prose is not an essential quality of great novels.

I thought some of the writers here might enjoy Fussell's quiz, though.

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Paul Fussell was at perfect liberty to point out grammatical faults in Greene's writing, indeed it is a perfectly valid part of literary criticism, but while elegant and correct prose are desirable, these qualities would have sat oddly with the subject matter of a number of his novels that deal with the lower echelons of society and set in what has sometimes been referred to as Greeneland.
Moreover, Fussell didn't write Brighton Rock.

I find Greene both eloquent and elegant in his prose. But he was a 20th century modernist who tried (and succeeded) to reproduce the idiom and cadence of his day--as many contemporaries tried to do less successfully. Carping at Greene about that has a bogus feeling to it. It reminds me of Harold Bloom's attempts to play the stick-wielding pedant to writers like Donna Tartt, when what really seems to be bothering him is the popularization of the intellectual novel. But of course he (and Fussel) have every right to fuss. I'm just not buying it, that's all.

^ Ditto regarding Greene's prose. I thought he was masterful even before I read this novella. Seems like Fussell might have had a chip on the shoulder....
If perfect grammar serves the author's purpose, great. If it gets in the way of conveying the author's ideas, it should be a secondary concern. Or no concern at all.
I will try to get hold of this movie. I have to confess that I sometimes have trouble appreciating movies made prior to the 70's. LOL. I know that is terrible, but I am 39 years old and many of them are so stylistically different that I tend to glaze over while watching. Love the books of the early and middle twentieth century, but some of the movies are tough for me to get into.

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Originally Posted by Emil Miller

Paul Fussell was at perfect liberty to point out grammatical faults in Greene's writing, indeed it is a perfectly valid part of literary criticism, but while elegant and correct prose are desirable, these qualities would have sat oddly with the subject matter of a number of his novels that deal with the lower echelons of society and set in what has sometimes been referred to as Greeneland.
Moreover, Fussell didn't write Brighton Rock.

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I cannot believe I am saying this but I agree with Emil on this.

Greene rulez!

Greene is one I've kept in the fridge for some time, having first been introduced to the name a few years ago through Emil's posts. (if memory serves me well, his past avatar was an image of Greene).
Anyhow, it's time to warm up the leftovers.
It would seem The Third Man is a good place to start(?).

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Originally Posted by Gilliatt Gurgle

Greene is one I've kept in the fridge for some time, having first been introduced to the name a few years ago through Emil's posts. (if memory serves me well, his past avatar was an image of Greene).
Anyhow, it's time to warm up the leftovers.
It would seem The Third Man is a good place to start(?).

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You are right about the avatar, I changed it after it was vandalised by Scheherezade in a dispute over Elvis Presley.

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Originally Posted by Emil Miller

You are right about the avatar, I changed it after it was vandalised by Scheherezade in a dispute over Elvis Presley.

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Sometimes I regret that it look me so long to find this joint.

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Originally Posted by Gilliatt Gurgle

It would seem The Third Man is a good place to start(?).

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It's a convenient place since it's good and can be read in a day or so. Greene's reputed masterpiece, The Power and the Glory is worth prioritizing, too. It sounds like Emil and I would both recommend Brighton Rock in gushing terms. And I would recommend Our Man in Havana very highly, too. (Be aware, though, that Our Man in Havana contains an extremely offensive word in its first line of dialogue, so if that's off-putting, you should look elsewhere).

Emil: What did the avatar end up looking like? :)

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Originally Posted by Pompey Bum

It's a convenient place since it's good and can be read in a day or so. Greene's reputed masterpiece, The Power and the Glory is worth prioritizing, too. It sounds like Emil and I would both recommend Brighton Rock in gushing terms. And I would recommend Our Man in Havana very highly, too. (Be aware, though, that Our Man in Havana contains an extremely offensive word in its first line of dialogue, so if that's off-putting, you should look elsewhere).

Emil: What did the avatar end up looking like? :)

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I don't have the Graham Greene moustachioed avatar but if you Google Kaiser Wilhelm II of Germany you will get the general idea.

It came about due to a thread entitled Blue Suede Shoes, in which members were asked about their favourite Elvis Presley recordings.

These were the salient features of the dispute.

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Originally Posted by The Comedian

Eeech. . . I could never take Elvis seriously. I tried to once. But, nope. Whenever he comes up, I press the "skip" button.

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Originally Posted by Emil Miller

Got to agree with this. Neely posted a video of Heartbreak Hotel on another thread recently and I couldn't stop laughing.
How about ' Won't you let me be your Teddy boy?' as the guys I used to knock around with used to sing. It does bring back some happy memories though of the club for youngsters we used to attend after work and which was held in a girls school. One of the girls had a picture of Elvis pasted on her desk and as the saying goes, a man's gotta do what he's gotta do; so I drew a moustache on it.

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Originally Posted by Scheherazade

You mean like this?

http://img709.imageshack.us/img709/8348/brianv.jpg

:p

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Originally Posted by Emil Miller

Amazing! You have just turned Graham Greene into Kaiser Wilhelm II of Germany.

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Originally Posted by papayahed

I think the Kaiser Wilhelm II pic has more panache, no?

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Originally Posted by Emil Miller

Well that may be true, but once the Kaiser had grown it he thought he was the cat's whiskers and sacked Bismark, the German chancellor who stood in the way of his imperial ambitions, and challenged the might of the British Empire. This led on to WW1 at the end of which millions were dead and the balance of power had shifted from Europe to the USA.
Now if instead of wearing that moustache he had worn a pair of blue suede brothel creepers and gone around strumming a guitar and warbling like Elvis he would have been comitted to a lunatic asylum and none of that would have happened.

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You are right about the avatar, I changed it after it was vandalised by Scheherezade in a dispute over Elvis Presley.

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Ahhh, good old days!

:D

As you pointed out, a gal's gotta do, what a she's gotta do!

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Originally Posted by Gilliatt Gurgle

It would seem The Third Man is a good place to start(?).

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As Pompey suggests, Our Man in Havana might be a good place to start... Or Brighton Rock.

I think it might be a good idea to point out that Greene's novels fall into two categories i.e the serious works such as Brighton Rock, The Heart of the Matter, The End of the Affair etc. and those he called entertainments. These would include The Confidential Agent, Stamboul Train, England Made Me etc.
Perhaps a good book for someone from the USA to start with would be The Quiet American, which underlines the USA's nascent involvement in Indochina at the point where the French were still fighting to hold onto the colony that would later come to be known as Viet Nam.

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Originally Posted by Pompey Bum

... And I would recommend Our Man in Havana very highly, too. (Be aware, though, that Our Man in Havana contains an extremely offensive word in its first line of dialogue, so if that's off-putting, you should look elsewhere).

Emil: What did the avatar end up looking like? :)

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Originally Posted by Scheherazade

Ahhh, good old days!

...As Pompey suggests, Our Man in Havana might be a good place to start... Or Brighton Rock.

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Originally Posted by Emil Miller

...Perhaps a good book for someone from the USA to start with would be The Quiet American, which underlines the USA's nascent involvement in Indochina at the point where the French were still fighting to hold onto the colony that would later come to be known as Viet Nam.

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Thanks for the suggestions, I'll start with Our Man in Havana, follow up with The Quiet American and in deference to the OP and the topic at hand, The Third Man shall be third.

I nominated Greene's The Power and the Glory for our January reading if anyone is interested:

http://www.online-literature.com/for...5-Reading-Poll

Watched Brighton Rock this week for the first time. A really cool flick! Thanks for the recommendation. Attenborough was great.

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Originally Posted by Scheherazade

I nominated Greene's The Power and the Glory for our January reading if anyone is interested

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I seconded it, although I've read it twice already. (I don't know if others have that issue, too).

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Originally Posted by Pompey Bum

I seconded it, although I've read it twice already. (I don't know if others have that issue, too).

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Don't forget to vote! :)

http://www.online-literature.com/for...90#post1278790