Sensation of symbolism

Yes I do hate the beach. I don't know why so many people gather every time on such a destestalbe spot. Do they go there because they want to feel sultry, smoggy, scrubby, salty, dusty, soiled, sweaty and foul or what? I understand that you want to enjoy the sun, but on a beach...

(I like the water though. But not the salt. I bet you know Lago di Garda, near Verona. When you find a non-sandy beach and when it is not too hot, you can have a good time there. (You would be well advised to evade those barbaric German tourists, though...))

well the german invasion is a part of the life of who lives around here, believe me...we can't do without it! ;)

though if a beach doesnt have send, it has stones...which can be worse...(anyway, i know the spots you're talking about).

i detest sunbathing as well...the sun is too hot...even if i try to relax and read something or listen to music, i just feel too hot... bleah...but italians love sun ...that's one of the many reasons why my own mum wonders if i'm really her daughter...;)

oh how good i am at going off-topic! :)

This discussion isn't of topic at all: we are just analysing the poem on a more detailed level now. ;)

It seems that every European likes the sun, exept you and I - perhaps. Most tourists don't go to Italy because of the fine art and culture, but because of - what they consider a better - climate.

(It is awful to see culture-trampling Dutch tourists lie rotting in their sunoil-sand barbeque-sauce and frie their fat meat in the baking sun on a cheap camping site near a polluted river that is also used as an open sewer. (Huh.))

In the age of Romance, about hundred years ago, a sunbaked skin was always associated with peasants and barbarism: countrymen had to work hard in the summer and so the got a brown colour. Nowadays, the people who would have become peasants, are ironically living in a mass-culture in which a brown skin is associated with welth and beauty...

Indeed... people spend money to go to an indoor place and have a lamp on thir face cos looking dark looks more 'cool' and more 'healthy'... that's crazy to me... My father spends the summers accusing me of being too pale, like avoiding to sunbathe was some kind of wicked crime... I guess they haven't understood yet that i'm a vampire, therefore i have to avoid the sun :D

Oh yes, the poor 'northern' tourists look soooo bright red after exposure to the sun... their skin must be burned completely! (i know a german boyt who has been only to the north of italy because going where the sun is stronger might cause even worse sunburnt to him...)

Oh another thing: does the sun shines less brightly, the more northern you go??? My English friend assures me that the thing that annoyed him most in the italian summer was the brightness of the sun, which is nver that bright in england... I guess it might be possible, because of how the rays of the sun reach different areas of the earth... but i'm terrbile at sciences, so my theory might be weird... :rolleyes:

Well, I think you're right. When you get closer to the equator, more rays of sun descend on your poor white vampire skin. :evil: A diehard norhern tourist isn't scared of the sun though: by covering themselves in oil, they prevent themselves from baking too fast. :evil:

( ;) - why don't they include sunbaked smilies? - ;) )

And a sun-browned skin body isn't something that I immediately associate with beauty or health. I think it is controversial to assume that the sun-bading can improve your beauty. Real beauty needs no sun, for it shines and sparkles itself, doesn't it?

ps. Is the german invasion so dominant in your culture that you've even made friends with them? ;)

(Are you attending an international university, or something?)

I havent made friends with any german invaders, but i'm planning to apply to work as a guide next year (too late for this year...).
The invasion can't pass unnoticed tho...all signs in the area of Lake Garda, and often in Verona as well, are bilingual, Italian and German, in the summer (i mean signs of places, bars, restaurants hotels etc...). Plus, everybody deeply criticises my choice of not going on studying German (my german actually sucks and they'll all predict i won't find a job in this area...well done, i'd rather leave! ;))

I'm attending a normally crappy italian university, where students complain when they have to do an exam in english (mind you, it exclusively happens at languages faculty, in the others most people dont usually have a clue about how to speak a foreign language)...this country is at a prehistorical level about teaching languages- i'm among the exceptions cos i've always loved languages and i'm using the net too much lately, always using english, which made me improve a lot.

As a tourist guide huh?

Well, I've been thinking to join an organisation that guides American and English visitors through Rome, but since I won't be free to go where I want on such a travel, I am not so enthousiastic about that as I was once.

But in your situation that is very different - of course. I feel sorry - though - for the fact that the German language is so dominant in your environment, for I really dislike the sound of the German language. I read and like some German literature though - Goethe! -, but when it comes to having a daily life converation with a German-speaking person, I always pretend that I don't speak German...

The linguistical situation at Dutch universities is not so bad though. Because The Netherlands have no dominant culture themselves, they adapt themselves to the dominant Western culture - that of the USA - and profs often even teach in English!

I know about Dutch people being good at langauges-especially english. Here it's very rare to have lessons in english, unless it's a languages university (but then only the lessons of english are in english)... Moreover, italy, like french and german, uses dubbing for the movies, so you never get to hear anything in another language...

I dont like German much either, it's the language i'm worse at, cos i've studied it for 'only' 3 years and i wasnt very good...it's complicated and 90% of the teachers are mad and make you hate it. I don't like most of the German literature, it even seems to me that even when the story would actually be good (e.g. Der Tod in Venedig/Death in Venice), the style is low and boring-maybe even because of the language!

I really should try Dutch someday but...let me confess that it appeals to me even less than German... The very few times i've heard Dutch, it seemed to me so 'hard', that German is sweet in comparaison! :o

hi!

You guys seem to be so deep in a discussion, but I wanted to say something too! About the languages, I've always wanted to be biligual but in the states, education seemed to work against me. I studied Spanish when I was in high school, and the first teacher I had was too involved in making us pronounce everything correctly that we didn't get very far. The second teacher I had spoke it with an american southern drawl which confused me entirely. Plus, she was well ahead of where I had left off with the first teacher. My husband is teaching himself, I hope he can teach me better!

Back to the poem, I also hate beaches! I spent most of my life in Florida and the only thing to me that the sun is good for here are the beautiful sunsets! I've never seen them the same anywhere else!

Another thing I don't understand is why they have those tanning beds here! If you drive 2 miles inland your sure to see people paying money to use them. Anyway, tanning makes you age faster, and in a society that's so youth concious, it makes it even more ridiculous. :-?

Well Shea,

Because the USA is such a big country, it isn't appealing for most people to become bilingual. A friend of mine told me that Spanish is thaught on your high schools, on such a way as English is thaught at our's.

But I think that only goes for the more Southern states, since they boarder Mexico. The Netherlands - you have heared about Amsterdam, didn't you? - boarder to the Germany and Belium, but don't speak their languages fluently. The Dutch are much more influenced by the pop-music and most of the holliwood crap that arrives here, so they speak Engilsh - when you're lucky.

(I believe I'm a rare species too in my country too, Koa...)

ps. (Koa)

I can understand that the Dutch language appears to you as even more difficult and boring than the German language. It is for a foreigner very hard to learn such unrational language: we are very inconsistent in our grammar. And the sound of it probably looks very German or Danish, or whatever Scandinavian language you have heared before. It was also a hard job for me to read Der Tod in Venedig, because the language was very archaic. But finished it in the end, though! (Nice story!)

But I can assure you: being born with the Dutch language isn't a wrong thing!

welcome to the discussion shea :)
from what i know, i think that the only countries that are worse than italy about languages, are the english speaking ones... there's probably a general lack of interest in improving the situation... Here it's improving very slowly: now children are taught english since when they're 6, while i started when i was 11...

Bloom, i wasnt saying that being dutch-speaker is bad... i don't know much about it, but it seems some kind of mixture between english and german, and i've been told it's not really hard... i was just saying that the sound of it seems so hard... I don't like the way it sounds, i can't help it. I adore the sound of spanish but i enver had the opportunity to study it, tho i can understand it and speak a very little bit, for obvious reasons of similarity with my native language. I also love the sound of eastern-european languages, that's why i'm learning Russian for a start ( that grammar makes you want to scream sometimes...but it's a lot of fun, once the shock passes... ;))

Well Koa,

To be honest - and a bit more objective, if that is possible - I don't like the sound of the Dutch language either, when I compare it to other languages around. I really adore the sound of French, Russian, Hebrew, English and Spanish with all their dialects and accents, but most of all: Italian.

When I went to the city-bookstore last evening, I was immediately charmed by the selling lady who had such wonderful Italian accent. I hadn't heared someone from Italy speak Dutch before, so it quite astonished me. So if you try to speak Dutch, an Italian accent isn't a problem - at least not to me.

Speaking about Italian... Have you already selected some of your Italian poems that you want me to read? I am beginning to get rather curious about them now!

well i hope your expectations won't be disillusioned (if this sentence makes sense in english ;))... don't hope for too much!

I am trying to decide which one i'd rather show- shame i often can't help writing about very personal feelings, which makes it harder to show. I'm in doubt between 2 or 3 things at the moment, so sooner or later you'll see.

I actually wonder how much you can understand italian, but it won't be a problem as you seem to master the main grammar structures, and for words there are dictionaries... :)

I really wonder why my inspiration is still blocked- i havent written anything at all (not even tried!) since last year...oh well, i guess it happens...

This forum is getting addictive by the way- but i wont visit so often as now from next week, cos i'll be busier

Oh i almost forgot: for languages lovers: www.unilang.org

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Originally Posted by Koa

I really wonder why my inspiration is still blocked- i havent written anything at all (not even tried!) since last year...oh well, i guess it happens...

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Well, my inspiration is starting to get blocked too. Because I am too buisy with my studies, I can't spend enough time to my own writings anymore. The most recent thing that I finished - apart from a few poems - was a piece of Dutch proze, which I sent to a publishing-contest. (I hope I'll win: the next week or so they will say who has won.)

The things that have 'insprired' me most in my life, occurred to me often in a change of environment. When I am with my vacations, I always see new things that I want to write about. There are also various kinds of music that are inspiring for me. (Have you tried Jazz?)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Koa

This forum is getting addictive by the way- but i wont visit so often as now from next week, cos i'll be busier

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It also addicts me... The friends that I have in real life are also fond of literature and writing, but they are not as passionate as I am. Since I wanted to open a new horizon by accesing a new language with my writings, the only alternative was to watch onine. I think that this forum - which we gave meaning ourselves - is exactly what I was looking for.

Oh well, i'm just addicted to talking...;) and since in real life not many people have the same interests as me...i end up online.

I rarely have found inspiration in travelling- soemtimes i see things and think of making a poem of that feeling, but i never manage to. It has happened only once so far. The period when i wrote more was a very sad period of my life, i just needed to express my feelings somehow- then from a need it became a habit... I' ve been busy as well lately, but in the past month i have been a bit more relaxed, but still nothing came. Nevermind...

I've often thought of contests, but i never sent anything. I wouldnt be able to work on something for that purpose, because thiking that my thing will be read is the best way to block me completely. Nor i can send things i already have written...i'm still too shy about sharing, i've never shared as much as in this period...

Oh and i'm not into jazz... rock songs with good maybe sad lyrics inspire me more.