The right to bear arms

I feel unfortunate to live in a country where guns are idolized play things. If this were a civilized place, my elected representatives would handle the security of the nation, not Joe-Bob neighbor jackass. Do I not have the right to avoid arms?

Three of my family members, and two kids I went to school with, were shot to death because of the ease of access to guns. If someone had approached them with knives, their odds of survival would have been much better. Knives aren't typically more dangerous than guns, people. That's quite a fantasy.

I saw posts all over facebook yesterday about some mass knife stabbing in China. "22 children injured in knife attack in China" vs. "20 children shot to death at a school in America." Let's see...which is a better phone call for a parent to get? Injured child? Dead child? O_o

My opinion is still and always that it is stupid to allow citizens to be armed against other citizens. Of course people are going to kill people with guns. A gun has one function.

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Originally Posted by prendrelemick

The "Guns don't kill people, people kill people" is entirely true, but evades the fact that guns make it easier, they bring the possibility of random killing to the ordinary man in the street. Guns are the problem.

I have 3 shotguns (my father's), but I don't have a right to own them, I possess them at the sufference of the licencing authority. This is fine by me. Every 5 years I have a police interview and inspection to renew my licence at a cost of around £100. To own a rifle I'd need a firearms certificate, a good reason to have one, several referees, a place to use it safely, a secure place to keep it, a record of any ammo and would have to comply with much more stringent checks. Hand guns are banned completely.

The result of all these rules has not been so much to prevent gun crime or murders, but I think has helped to establish a different culture. Our society barely tolerates them any more. People have more or less handed in all their Grandads' WW1 revolvers and their childhood .22s

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These are the types of controls I would be comfortable with, but the states are full of crazy rednecks. Try speaking to them about this and they'll jam their fingers into their ears while screaming.

61 mass shootings in USA since Columbine.

They have occurred in other countries, but other countries have responded by tightening the gun laws and it has generally worked.

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Originally Posted by prendrelemick

For shooting policemen then.

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For shooting kindergarten children then

Hi Delta, Australia had 13 mass shootings in 16 years. Until 1998 when Semi automatics were banned - none since.

Lucky number 13. I'm thankful for the ban. Just out of interest, where did you get those figures from?

In many places in USA people hunt to eat. I know because I lived in places like that where the nearest supermarket is one hundred miles away. I used a 267 for my purposes. A well placed one of those bullets is enough. There should be gun control. Certified collectors should have a special license and some related degree implying responsibility. Of course you wouldn't hunt a grizzly with a 267. But I never cared much for it, although a 30-06 should be enough for those who like the sausage. I think this gun control will not stop the killing, but at least will make it much more difficult and will promote a lot more sense.

I would be in favor of a license fee of about $100,000 per year per gun to compensate communities that have to pay for security at schools and malls because of the presence of guns. That might resolve the issue, but if it doesn't, one could also require each gun owner to purchase $500 million in liability insurance in case their gun is used improperly. Maybe $500 million is not enough.

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Originally Posted by Delta40

Lucky number 13. I'm thankful for the ban. Just out of interest, where did you get those figures from?

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Michael Moore on Twitter, I think I got them right. He also lists each of the USA 61 events

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Originally Posted by cafolini

In many places in USA people hunt to eat. I know because I lived in places like that where the nearest supermarket is one hundred miles away. I used a 267 for my purposes. A well placed one of those bullets is enough. There should be gun control. Certified collectors should have a special license and some related degree implying responsibility. Of course you wouldn't hunt a grizzly with a 267. But I never cared much for it, although a 30-06 should be enough for those who like the sausage. I think this gun control will not stop the killing, but at least will make it much more difficult and will promote a lot more sense.

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Exactly, why does anyone need a semi-automatic?

That's not the figures I have. 9 gun massacres since 1971. Port Arthur trumping the world in 1996. I remember the Hoddle St and Queen St massacres. Michael Moore's credibility is questionable.

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Originally Posted by YesNo

I would be in favor of a license fee of about $100,000 per year per gun to compensate communities that have to pay for security at schools and malls because of the presence of guns. That might resolve the issue, but if it doesn't, one could also require each gun owner to purchase $500 million in liability insurance in case their gun is used improperly. Maybe $500 million is not enough.

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I like the insurance idea. But ligitimate guns need to stay ligitimate and in the open. The licence fee should be affordable.

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Originally Posted by Delta40

That's not the figures I have. 9 gun massacres since 1971. Port Arthur trumping the world in 1996. I remember the Hoddle St and Queen St massacres. Michael Moore's credibility is questionable.

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To be fair to him he is re-tweeting someone else. That's the trouble with social media, things get repeated without being checked. (I'm guilty) I think this is the original source.

http://jeffsachs.org/2012/12/time-to...the-massacres/

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Originally Posted by Delta40

Michael Moore's credibility is questionable.

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:lol: That has got to be the understatement of all time.

Mmmm that link took me nowhere. I looked up the history of massacres in Australia only because given the small population of this nation, 13 massacres in 16 years just doesn't add up. Prior to 1996 we were a relaxed nation in terms of gun laws - a naive one even but the killing of 35 people at Port Arthur changed all of that. The government not only banned semi's and tightened gun laws, they also spent $350m on a buy back program and as a result, over 640,000 guns were handed in.

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Originally Posted by Delta40

Mmmm that link took me nowhere. I looked up the history of massacres in Australia only because given the small population of this nation, 13 massacres in 16 years just doesn't add up. Prior to 1996 we were a relaxed nation in terms of gun laws - a naive one even but the killing of 35 people at Port Arthur changed all of that. The government not only banned semi's and tightened gun laws, they also spent $350m on a buy back program and as a result, over 640,000 guns were handed in.

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Results: In the 18 years before the gun law reforms, there were 13 mass shootings in Australia, and none in
the 10.5 years afterwards. Declines in firearm-related deaths before the law reforms accelerated after the
reforms for total firearm deaths (p = 0.04), firearm suicides (p = 0.007) and firearm homicides (p = 0.15), but
not for the smallest category of unintentional firearm deaths, which increased. No evidence of substitution
effect for suicides or homicides was observed. The rates per 100 000 of total firearm deaths, firearm
homicides and firearm suicides all at least doubled their existing rates of decline after the revised gun laws


This is the gist^ of the article I found.

640,000 that's amazing. In our country a gun amnesty had about 150,000 guns handed in.

Lol. Somebody has to shoot those bloody kangaroos! There's alot of ground to cover here.

I wish the right to bear arms is about mounting arms of bears on walls.