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I love Ulysses - James Joyce is my biggest prose hero, but I think that you should toss it aside if you aren't enjoying it. This whole idea of "everybody-must-read" books is absurd. Read books that you enjoy or think you'll get something out of (or that have been assigned in a class), don't waste precious time with big tomes that other people have dubbed important.
The sound of a nail being hit squarely on the head.Quote:
Originally Posted by Desolation
I've never read Ulysses, but I have read The Odyssey. Are there any similarities? (sorry if this is a stupid question). Based on these comments, I don't think I'll even attempt Joyce for a while.
The overarching structure of Ulysses is based on the Odyssey: where Odysseus' literal journey to find home is replaced by Bloom's metaphoric journey to find a home, being the epitome of "stranger in a strange land".
Ulysses is broken down into episodes, each episode loosely (sometimes really loosely) models an aspect of the Odyssey. The third episode, for example, is modeled after Proteus (who is briefly mentioned towards the beginning of the Odyssey. The reason for this this is because that particular part of Ulysses is, like Proteus, very changeable.
I think I can conclude this experience as a miscalculation, giving in to the urge of expanding my literary repertoire, as opposed to connecting and really feeling and enjoying the book (and oh! understanding it), cause hey! That's what it's all about!
I believe that being a classical literature lover is like being an opposite junkie: there are too many goods to explore, and that can drive one crazy!
But hey! I'd choose it anyday ;)
You're making it sound much easier than it is. Have you taken advanced university classes on Ulysses? If you have a really good knowledge of classical literature, a teacher, lots of time, a library of reference books to access, etc, then it may not be "very hard to understand"; in the way that an advanced Quantum Physics text is not very hard to understand for a dedicated, very able, student of physics, with lots of time & all the learning resources he or she requires.Quote:
Originally Posted by VERONIQUE
If any of that were actually required to read Ulysses, then it would be a terrible book.Quote:
Originally Posted by mal4mac
The novel can, and should, be read cold. Don't approach it like an academic or a scientist, it will ruin all the fun. Let the prose drift over you, experience it, don't get so caught up on pointing out all the references or what you don't understand. Save all that for the 3rd or 4th reading, if you like it enough to want to revisit it (as I do). It's challenging, but far from impenetrable, and it doesn't absolutely need anything to be read or enjoyed other than the text itself.
It's a portrait of an artist as a young man :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Bookstore Rat
I enjoyed reading it, although I gave up with Ulysses. I did need the excellent notes in the cheapo Wordsworth edition, though!
I was so impressed with that Wordsworth edition that I ran out and bought their version of Ulysses - and then found it had no notes (!) In retrospect I can't harangue them too much for this omission. I reckon you need several books longer than Ulysses to get you through Ulysses, or be able to take a larger dollops of perplexity in your reading than the average reader, or both, or the necessity of passing a course in it, or something else (?)
Has anyone read Ulysses without it being a course requirement? If so, did you enjoy it, or take it as a challenge you had to conquer (an Everest of literature...)
I read for fun, certainly not as a scientist, I had enough of that in my day job, and certainly not as a literature academic, as I'm not one. I've tried reading it three times in as many decades, in the way you describe, and just ground to a halt. I have to understand a little of what's going on, I just don't find it pleasant or enlightening to let Joyce's prose drift over me. Maybe I'm tone deaf to Joyce, but I don't mind, most classic authors give me joy and there are plenty of classic authors.Quote:
Originally Posted by Desolation
I'd certainly recommend anyone having a crack at reading the novel, too many sensible people like yourself rate it highly; although, also, many sensible people do not. Just borrow it from the library...
After a reasonable bash (say forcing your way through fifty pages) give up, or not...
I read Ulysses last year, taking something like the relaxed approach Desolation suggests, and enjoyed it a lot. Had I read it as a youngster, as you have FenwickS, it is likely I would have stopped within the first 100 pages, because at that time I hadn't yet been exposed to novels that require rereading to fully appreciate. My original motivation was largely historical—I had been hearing for years that my favorite novel, Gaddis's The Recognitions, along with several others I love, couldn't have been written without the precedent of Ulysses—then I learned that Gaddis had only gotten to page 40 before putting it down. So, to further agree with Desolation: there are plenty of challenging novels you will like on first reading. Read those and then maybe come back later in life for Ulysses.
I agree that it's worth coming back to a novel at a later date for a second or third try. This worked for me with Don Quixote, but I think I'll have to wait for a later rebirth to "get" Ulysses...
Ulysses is a great book which is not that hard to understand given a decent IQ, Finnegans Wake is his really difficult work but you know he was not interested in writing Harry potter style for idiots? Dubliners is magnificent as is The Portrait" but these are beautiful conventionally narrated style masterpieces which use but do not extend the 19Th Century techniques as mastered by Dickens ,and the great French and Russian masters.Joyce wanted to go further and he did, along with Virginia Wolff ,PROUST ETC Yes he is pushing the reader to go beyond traditional methods which themselves were artificial devices and conventions of fiction.Go back to Joyce but dont stop at Dubliners or A portrait of the artist as a young man" for the artist wh was joyce matured into the great man of modernism who wrote Ulysses and Finnegan Wake
mal4mac, did you know that Joyce actually was involved with Quantum Theory,, Quarks THE SUB ATOMIC PARTICLE FOUND IN THE SIXTIEScome from Finnegans Wake, and were given that name by Murray Gellman scientist and Joyce freak.
Richard feynman suggested "PARTONS" the great american scientist,he also said that he didnt understand quantum physics himself.
Hmm. Never read it...is it supposed to be understood? Or experienced? Many people find things difficult when they can't savor the experience.
This, this, this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Desolation
I attempted to read Ulysses a few years ago and failed in my attempt. I'll get back to it, eventually.
You should check out the current thread on snobbishness...Quote:
Originally Posted by VERONIQUE