Why Spirituality?

I chose spirituality because:

It explained the seemingly random events that cause suffering.
It gives me an ethical measure that goes beyond social constructions such as the law and Governemnt policy.
It offers me the possibility of self development beyond what is normally considered possible in life.
It develops an understanding of my mind and also the actions and motivations of others.
It makes me responsible for my own development and offers
It gives me methods by which I can benefit others and help myself.
It presents the possibility of understanding the nature of reality.
It gives me a reasonable perspective from which to critically evaluate.

I'll have to think and add any more that come to mind.

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Originally Posted by Varenne Rodin

If I have a spirit, it's waiting for something else. I hope it will go away entirely in the end. I'm not a willing participant in this universe. :)

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This is beautifully depressing.

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Originally Posted by Charles Darnay

This is beautifully depressing.

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I don't see what's depressing about this if you were minding your own welfare. She's minding her own and stating it very clearly. She's not telling you how to think. Cheer up. If you found a better, less depressing way (according to you), you can keep it.

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Originally Posted by Paulclem

I chose spirituality because:

It explained the seemingly random events that cause suffering.
It gives me an ethical measure that goes beyond social constructions such as the law and Governemnt policy.
It offers me the possibility of self development beyond what is normally considered possible in life.
It develops an understanding of my mind and also the actions and motivations of others.
It makes me responsible for my own development and offers
It gives me methods by which I can benefit others and help myself.
It presents the possibility of understanding the nature of reality.
It gives me a reasonable perspective from which to critically evaluate.

I'll have to think and add any more that come to mind.

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Regardless of what you say or add, and in particular regarding the law and government policy, you might challenge them in court if you want to change them. I can guarantee you that you will otherwise go to spend a contract behind bars; deservedly. Spirituality has nothing to do with placing a person beyond the law.

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Originally Posted by Paulclem

I chose spirituality because:

It explained the seemingly random events that cause suffering.
It gives me an ethical measure that goes beyond social constructions such as the law and Governemnt policy.
It offers me the possibility of self development beyond what is normally considered possible in life.
It develops an understanding of my mind and also the actions and motivations of others.
It makes me responsible for my own development and offers
It gives me methods by which I can benefit others and help myself.
It presents the possibility of understanding the nature of reality.
It gives me a reasonable perspective from which to critically evaluate.

I'll have to think and add any more that come to mind.

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Well put. I agree.

One should compromise. Man has a path while the universe has a goal of killing you. A man should have less path and more goal. Teenage girls master Olympic gymnastics. Spirituality to me is a conformity. It is one of those team sports. Crystal vibration people, ghost people, Tai Chi people, Vegetarian people.... we think, we don't think. When you were a small child, toys were fantastic, life was all fun. Spiritualism is denial. The truth is too painful. You don't have any more soul than did a dinosaur. You get one life. You wasted it or you made it sing. Life is not fair. This ridiculous headless self-destructive farce around us is all there is. No magical other sides of mirrors that makes this all make sense.

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Originally Posted by YesNo

I remember looking at memetics based on another thread. My problem with this is that it postulates the existence of an unconscious meme that nonetheless in some wierd way wants to replicate. The idea is based on the "selfish gene" metaphor that Dawkins promotes.

Since the selfish gene has been criticized by paleontologists such as Stephen Jay Gould and Niles Eldridge, I have pretty much dismissed it along with the derived ideas of the meme.

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Yes, I don't believe that memes are anything other than infectious ideas. However, the idea explains a lot of things.. Why people have weird ideas that won't go away and prevent them from growing. I can see how a lot of internalized negativity can create that kind of a personality, yet the idea that there are many specific memes kind of elaborates on it.

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Originally Posted by JamCrackers

One should compromise. Man has a path while the universe has a goal of killing you. A man should have less path and more goal. Teenage girls master Olympic gymnastics. Spirituality to me is a conformity. It is one of those team sports. Crystal vibration people, ghost people, Tai Chi people, Vegetarian people.... we think, we don't think. When you were a small child, toys were fantastic, life was all fun. Spiritualism is denial. The truth is too painful. You don't have any more soul than did a dinosaur. You get one life. You wasted it or you made it sing. Life is not fair. This ridiculous headless self-destructive farce around us is all there is. No magical other sides of mirrors that makes this all make sense.

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Au contraire, mon frere. The universe is a hologram, a beautiful, infinite fractal, and it's not trying to kill you. Life is fair - you create your world, your reality. The universe is an infinite fractal, and you know what? You are too. The destructive forces are there, yes, but there are many constructive forces too. You know, death and life are not equivalent to evil and good. Death and life are two sides of one coin.

Also, the "heedless self-destructive farce" is only one tiny, infinitesimal part of nature. Don't over-grandize humanity, we're a small part of nature. We can't kill it or destroy it, and it'll be here long after we're gone.

If I only could, I would give up everything, fly to Nepal, and follow Dharma Sangha. My life is a series of models, moulds, expectations, and routines. I so want to get away from it. I want to give up on the world that gives up on me. I want to renounce connections and relationships, comfort and wealth, and family and security for the path of spirituality where my suffering will make sense. Currently, I don't have any idea why I suffer.

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Originally Posted by cafolini

Regardless of what you say or add, and in particular regarding the law and government policy, you might challenge them in court if you want to change them. I can guarantee you that you will otherwise go to spend a contract behind bars; deservedly. Spirituality has nothing to do with placing a person beyond the law.

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I just need to elaborate on

It gives me an ethical measure that goes beyond social constructions such as the law and Governemnt policy.

The intention in this is not to justify breaking the law, but to evaluate the law from another perspective. The laws as they stand here in the UK are fine. Who knows what could happen in the future? You only have to look back a few years to see the law being wielded by states - Soviet Russia, Germany Pre Apartheid South Africa - to see that the laws were criminal and used by the state for repression of one kind and another.

Taking a common ethic like "Don't kill others", you can then oppose or disagree with any law that goes against this basic in tenet, such as the death penalty, or racist laws.

Regardless of what you say or add, and in particular regarding the law and government policy, you might challenge them in court if you want to change them.

Yes - exactly for this reason, or to judge the fitness of the state, whether to leave etc.

I can guarantee you that you will otherwise go to spend a contract behind bars; deservedly.

Have you found me out so soon? :biggrin5:

Spirituality has nothing to do with placing a person beyond the law.

Agreed. My intention was to evaluate the law, and through that the fitness of the state/ society. We may not need it at the moment, but who knows what will happen.

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Originally Posted by NikolaiI

Yes, I don't believe that memes are anything other than infectious ideas. However, the idea explains a lot of things.. Why people have weird ideas that won't go away and prevent them from growing. I can see how a lot of internalized negativity can create that kind of a personality, yet the idea that there are many specific memes kind of elaborates on it.

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I don't know that an idea is infectious, but I would be interested in any techniques you come up with that help one get control over the mind. I have tried meditation, specifically upon memorized texts, but I get distracted and wonder if I'm getting any control at all. I guess that's normal, however.

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Originally Posted by YesNo

I don't know that an idea is infectious, but I would be interested in any techniques you come up with that help one get control over the mind. I have tried meditation, specifically upon memorized texts, but I get distracted and wonder if I'm getting any control at all. I guess that's normal, however.

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The meditation I recommend is awareness of breathing, named in Buddhism Vipassana meditation. The idea is to focus on one's breathing, to practice bringing my attention back to the present. Thinking is wonderful, it can do so many things, including predict the future, reflect on the past, all of which are necessary. However, never stopping thinking can lead to losing awareness and other problems.

So, meditation is about stopping thinking. This is what I've been doing and it seems so important.. even a little practice really produces such a wonderful change, it's hard to describe. My goal in meditation is to be fully present in the here and the now. When thoughts arise, I don't push them away, or attach to them either, just let them come and go, because they will naturally do so without my effort.

There is one tool that I use that is very helpful.. when I begin meditation, I light a candle and sit a few feet from it, and just watch it. I stare at it for about 3 minutes, and then I close my eyes and practice meditation, or awareness of my breathing. I do this before I go to sleep and several times throughout the day. It's really worth it. :)

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Originally Posted by Charles Darnay

This is beautifully depressing.

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Thank you, Charles. I like your name.

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Originally Posted by NikolaiI

The meditation I recommend is awareness of breathing, named in Buddhism Vipassana meditation.

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Thanks. I try something similar to that when I take daily walks although I let the vegetation along the sidewalk distract me from my thoughts. Hopefully my thoughts don't distract me from seeing the vegetation, but they often do. I figure if I haven't seen the things I've passed by, I'm probably too trapped in my own head.

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Originally Posted by YesNo

Thanks. I try something similar to that when I take daily walks although I let the vegetation along the sidewalk distract me from my thoughts. Hopefully my thoughts don't distract me from seeing the vegetation, but they often do. I figure if I haven't seen the things I've passed by, I'm probably too trapped in my own head.

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I do the same, there's a cross country trail very near my house.. and a lake nearby in the other direction. I especially love the trails, though; and meditation is something you can do walking, standing, sitting, and lying down. Anytime you are consciously mindful of your breathing, in other words bring your focus on your in breath and out breath, it's meditation. But though walking meditation in nature is so healthful, sitting meditation, even for 5 or 10 minutes a day, can have a really big impact. I would go so far to say that the two complement each other.