Legal Marijuana

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Frankly, I have a problem when someone uses a personal anecdote to lambast others for something that really isn't anyone else's business. It's like that person who'll complain when someone tells a joke, "My cousin's gay, so don't go there," or some such BS. Seriously, just shut the **** up. Once, in an episode of South Park, they had a character called "Gross Skin-disease Guy," and you know what I did? Laughed, because I'm adult enough to accept that my personal experience doens't dictate how others should act or think.

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Fair enough - that's your opinion, and you're entitled to it. But I cannot discount my personal experiences - I'm simply not capable of being that dispassionate about it. As a direct result of marijuana abuse, I have know personal sorrow and loss. I have been fortunate never to suffer anything similar as a result of alcohol - perhaps if I had, I would feel differently about it. You may discount the nature of anecdotal evidence, but surely it is better to be able to speak from a position of some experience, rather than none?

As for it being none of my business, it is if they do it in a public place. If they want to drug themselves in their own private spaces, then I have no means of remonstrating with them, even if I might think such behaviour foolish. Where I have issues is when people use drugs in communal spaces that are meant for everyone. I used to get so angry with my stoner flatmates in my first year for constantly smoking marijuana in the kitchen where I and other non-users were trying to cook - that's not only foolish, it's downright rude and inconsiderate.

And I stand by my statement about the difficulty of latterly prohiniting something once you have at some point allowed it. With alcohol and tobacco, it's far too late to really do anything - but why bring yet another addictive and potentially dangerous substance into easy reach? And where does it stop - surely the same argument (that self-determination is the only thing that matters) can be used of heroin, cocaine, ecstasy, and so on?

I don't smoke it. I used to when I was younger. Now I look at the long term effects it has had on my brother and I'm glad I stopped when the responsibilies of life stepped in. His kids have grown up with a guy who thought he was cool but really, he was never emotionally available for them, never participated in their lives (although he took credit for their accomplishments) thanks to the delusions he lived under. Ultimately, he placed the parental responsbility completely in the hands of his wife. He suffers from increased bouts of depression now and yeah, I guess he would qualify as a contender for medical marijuana (ha ha ha) to deal with it!

Personally, I don't think dope is going to go away. I don't see how the law can encourage the responsbile use of it in the home since they fail to do this with the use of alcohol. My opinion is legal or not, it's a lost cause and children especially will pay for the substance abuse their parents engage in.

I really wanted to open discussion on primarily the use of it for creativity or relaxation. Secondly, the legalisation issue which has increasing volume in many countries.

I did not envisage alot of backlash - some backlash yes, but fair enough. I suppose I am a member of an art forum where it is treated with little friction on the usage and a handful of dissent regarding legalisation. This is probably why I miscalculated the result.

That said, it only makes it more interesting to have diversity of opinion. Living in the Caribbean, where it is part of the culture, certainly effects my view.

Tony

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Originally Posted by Alexander III

Love the second paragrapgh truley much love from me on that

As to the third paragrapgh if I ever findmyself in Illinoise I will bake you a btach :)

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I'll hold you to that.

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Originally Posted by Lokasenna

Fair enough - that's your opinion, and you're entitled to it. But I cannot discount my personal experiences - I'm simply not capable of being that dispassionate about it. As a direct result of marijuana abuse, I have know personal sorrow and loss. I have been fortunate never to suffer anything similar as a result of alcohol - perhaps if I had, I would feel differently about it. You may discount the nature of anecdotal evidence, but surely it is better to be able to speak from a position of some experience, rather than none?

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Of course, and you're entitle to your opinion. If you hate marijuana, that's fine. It only when you're at a party and you decide to "remonstrate" someone at a party--that's when I have a problem.

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As for it being none of my business, it is if they do it in a public place. If they want to drug themselves in their own private spaces, then I have no means of remonstrating with them, even if I might think such behaviour foolish. Where I have issues is when people use drugs in communal spaces that are meant for everyone. I used to get so angry with my stoner flatmates in my first year for constantly smoking marijuana in the kitchen where I and other non-users were trying to cook - that's not only foolish, it's downright rude and inconsiderate.

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Well, that'd different. I was responding to your comment where you didn't specify context, when you said that you would remonstrate anyone smoking in your presence. Well, that could mean anything. Like I said, if you're at a party (and you're not the one hosting it, of course), I would find it extremely rude for someone to start scolding someone smoking pot. It's really not your problem. Leave the party; problem solved.

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And I stand by my statement about the difficulty of latterly prohiniting something once you have at some point allowed it. With alcohol and tobacco, it's far too late to really do anything - but why bring yet another addictive and potentially dangerous substance into easy reach? And where does it stop - surely the same argument (that self-determination is the only thing that matters) can be used of heroin, cocaine, ecstasy, and so on?

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And you don't think it's too late for marijuana?

I have suffered immensely because of marijuana. It made my brother go psychotic when he was 16 and I was 11. He would scream in madness day after day, night after night. We did not know about schizophrenia so for a couple months we just endured it. He convinced me that someone was poisoning our food and so I simply stopped eating except at friend's houses. I went from being a popular kid and top student put ahead a grade to an outcast with all Fs on my report cards. This was also when my issues with depression began, issues which have persisted for over a decade and have greatly impacted my life.

Also, my father was sent to jail not once but twice for growing marijuana, in addition to being fined tens of thousands of dollars the third time the idiot was busted. I watched him handcuffed and put in the back of a cop-car when I was 7 years old.

All that said, I am not against marijuana. In 99.9 percent of cases its moderate use is entirely harmless. In America especially thousands of lives have been ruined as a result of people, often young adults, being sentenced to prison for years just for mere possession of small amounts. The cost of policing illicit drugs runs in the billions of dollars, money that could be better spent housing the indigent or feeding the starving, not to mention paying down the nation's debt.

The destruction alcohol unleashes upon society is a thousand-fold that which marijuana does. I've known people who have died in car accidents when they or the other driver were drunk. I've met people whose livers have shut down. I've met people so desperate for a drink they'd steal from their best friend. If alcohol is to be legal, then marijuana should be as well. I don't even smoke the stuff but I see how innocuous the smoking of it is and am aware of how pernicious can be the policing and controlling of it.

Anyway. Rant over.

Sorry to hear that Darcy. I'm like you, I can't smoke it anymore - it just makes me paranoid as hell, and I can't get my brain to shut up. It's horrible. The funny thing is, I used to smoke it no problem and actually used to enjoy a joint after work or whatever to unwind. I'm not against legalising it tho. I know people who get great enjoyment from it and no side effects like I do.

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Originally Posted by Darcy88

The cost of policing illicit drugs runs in the billions of dollars, money that could be better spent housing the indigent or feeding the starving, not to mention paying down the nation's debt.

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If they legalize it, they can also tax it and certify its quality and the police who get laid off because they are not chasing people who use marijuana anymore can earn a living growing and distributing it.

I somewhat doubt that marijuana actually causes things like paranoid schizophrenia. But it might. It is possible that people with mental disorders just like to smoke it more than others.

Having said that, I've only inhaled 4 times when I was offered something that looked and smelled like marijuana. I had no clue what it was. I passed out two of those times so it must have been some really good ****, whatever it was, or my body must have had a very low tolerance for it. It's amusing coming to while people are frantically trying to wake you up. You want to say, "Hey, it's alright. I'm not dead yet," but coming to takes some time. You can't say or do anything for a few moments. In any case, it took probably more trials than was necessary, but I learned my lesson.

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Originally Posted by Darcy88

The destruction alcohol unleashes upon society is a thousand-fold that which marijuana does.

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Maybe that is because it was legalized.

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Originally Posted by BienvenuJDC

Maybe that is because it was legalized.

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Excellent point!

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Originally Posted by YesNo

I somewhat doubt that marijuana actually causes things like paranoid schizophrenia. But it might. It is possible that people with mental disorders just like to smoke it more than others.

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You have to be genetically susceptible to it, but yes, marijuana can cause paranoid schizophrenia. Scientist have done brain scans of people under its influence. Parts of the brain light up and stay lit up that shouldn't be.

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Originally Posted by BienvenuJDC

Maybe that is because it was legalized.

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Not an excellent point. A terrible point. Nations that legalize drugs do not see spikes in rates of drug use. And even if in an alternate universe they did, the difference in destructiveness between alcohol and marijuana has nothing to do with their opposing rates of consumption. It has everything to do with the fact that alcohol is highly addictive and debilitating. Alcoholism is fierce and tenecious, I've seen people's lives destroyed by it, in come cases literally. Marijuana is not the same. In 99.9% of instances a heavy user just loses the sharpness of their long term memory and also their initiative. An alcoholic can lose their liver and their life. The difference between the two is chasmic and profound. I am surrounded by pot-heads. I know.

To be perfectly honest, I am all for the legalization, not that I use the stuff myself. I won't say anything one way or the other about having experimented with the stuff when I was younger considering my current employment does not look kindly upon anything illegal. I will say that I am all for legalization on several grounds. Most importantly, I feel that "we" as a nation waste far too much money upon this futile "War on Drugs" that is as doomed to failure as was the attempt at prohibition. A vast majority of the gang violence in our urban streets is directly attributable to illegal drugs. We waste millions if not billions housing individuals in prison for using or selling drugs. A great majority of the violence in Mexico and South America can be directly attributed to the criminalization of drugs. Rather than waste efforts upon attempts to snuff out such drugs, I think educational efforts that spell out the dangers of abuse (such as those that have slowly stigmatized cigarette smoking in the US) are far more effective. At the same time, it seems absurd to be wasting money in a vain attempt to eradicate something that might be better controlled and taxed... and even grown and marketed here (like alcohol).

My second problem with the criminalization of marijuana is the hypocrisy. We waste millions or billions in housing individuals in prison for using or selling marijuana (or other drugs) while Budweiser and Miller Lite openly make millions and are free to advertise at family gatherings such as concerts and sporting events. Our "royal family"... the Kennedys... made their fortune smuggling illegal alcohol during prohibition. I cannot, for the life of me, see how they are different from today's smugglers trying to smuggle in marijuana or cocaine from Mexico and Latin-America. Nor do I buy into the argument that alcohol (as opposed to other drugs) has a longer history. We can't be ignorant of the fact that marijuana and hashish and opium have long histories in other cultures. I suspect the alcohol industry itself is more responsible for portraying the evils of drugs while ignoring the "evils of drink".

I'll not question Loka's personal dislike of the drug. Again, it personally does nothing for me. My drugs of choice are caffeine and alcohol... but I'll not deny others their preferences. I agree that the use of marijuana... just like that of tobacco... is something that engaged in publicly for the simple reason that others rights to enjoy themselves without being exposed to second hand smoke should not be encroached upon.

Ultimately, none of the reasons for criminalizing marijuana (and yet not alcohol, caffeine, etc...) make any logical sense to me.

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Originally Posted by Lokasenna

But I cannot discount my personal experiences - I'm simply not capable of being that dispassionate about it.

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Eh, I am. My uncle is now dead because he was t-boned by a drunk woman, but I'm not going to turn around and say "that's it, everyone stop drinking!"

I do hate alchohol though, it rips up my stomach and it gives me a headache, and drunk people are so gross and stupid, I'm tired of holding people's hair and bringing them glasses of water. Also, you have to drink so much of it to feel an effect, whereas with weed, as long as you don't smoke every day to develop a resistance, you get three puffs into you and you're good.

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Originally Posted by smerdyakov

I can't smoke it anymore - it just makes me paranoid as hell, and I can't get my brain to shut up.

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I like it when my brain won't shut up. I smoke on my days off in the wee hours of the morning (which is the late evening to me, on my work schedule) when I'm by myself in my room. It helps me sort things out which are festering in my subconscious, I recognize and solve problems that I didn't even know were there by following trains of thought around and dealing with what I find. It's sometimes scary and intense, especially if I haven't smoked for a long stretch, but I've consistantly been better for it in the long run. I am steadfast in my conviction that it has made me emotionally and psychologically stronger.

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Originally Posted by YesNo

I somewhat doubt that marijuana actually causes things like paranoid schizophrenia. But it might. It is possible that people with mental disorders just like to smoke it more than others.

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I believe that marijuana helps to uncover hidden fears. If, underneath it all, you have a tendancy towards psychosis, then marijuana may bring that to the surface. I think it would have come out on it's own eventually anyway, but maybe not as soon.

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Originally Posted by Delta40

My opinion is legal or not, it's a lost cause and children especially will pay for the substance abuse their parents engage in.

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That "won't somebody PLEASE think of the children?!?" argument always bugged me, because my dad smokes sometimes. Who cares if a dad has the occasional glass of scotch (or whatever stereotypes are drinking nowadays)? No one, that's who. Well, marijuana is less harmful to one's health and, unlike alchohol, it doesn't cause people to beat their children.

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Originally Posted by BienvenuJDC

Maybe that is because it was legalized.

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You don't read a lot of history books, do you?

I have known alot of, and infact come from a family of , artistic people, many of whom have also had drink and drug problems . I lump them together because for me both are equally enjoyable and safe or destructive and harmful depending on how they are used, I don't completely get this idea of defending one by slagging off the other.

I can see how drinking and drug taking can help you artisticly, when you are drunk or high , you become devorced from reality. Time has little meaning, you stop worrying about "work tommmorow" or how you are going to pay the bills, your mind is free to focus on a new song or a poem.

In my experience though the trouble is that eventually you end up too far into your own world and frankly dissapear up your own ***.
I like a drink these days but I smoked a bit when I was young and I quite enjoyed it. I think the quality or strength has changed though, or my tolerance to it, because over the years I have noticed it just makes me feel sick and tired and the next day a bit on the paranoid side, It certainly doesn't help me relax one bit.

As for legalising dope ? I think I would have to say no, I am sure I would feel the same if alcohol was illegal. I have seen too much harm done by both.

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Nations that legalize drugs do not see spikes in rates of drug use.

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I must say I'm very surprised at this and wonder if it is a cultural thing or if it is indeed accurate. I am positive that if you could easily get marijuana at every corner shop or supermarket in the UK that the use as it would absolutely rocket. It might be fairly easy to get hold of now illegally, but it's certainly not as easy to get hold if this were the case. I would not like to see it legalised in the UK for this reason.

As I say I don't care what people get up to in their own homes (though I can still smell it on my way to work) but I am certainly with Loka on the smoking it in public places. On this I was glad on the tobacco ban too, pubs and restaurants have never been cleaner since and we can all potentially live a little longer because of it.