Where does the authority lie?

I'm sorry if I hurt anyone by inferring that their worship is unacceptable. I'm simply sharing the verses that I wish someone had shared with me earlier in life.

I heartily agree that Leviticus makes no sense in today's society! The reason why is that it is part of the old covanent. It no longer applies to us today because of Christ's death. Look at Romans 7;

Do you not know, brothers--for I am speaking to men who know the law--that the law has authority over a man only as long as he lives? 2For example, by law a married woman is bound to her husband as long as he is alive, but if her husband dies, she is released from the law of marriage. 3So then, if she marries another man while her husband is still alive, she is called an adulteress. But if her husband dies, she is released from that law and is not an adulteress, even though she marries another man.
4So, my brothers, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit to God. 5For when we were controlled by the sinful nature, the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in our bodies, so that we bore fruit for death. 6But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.

And Chapter 8;
because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death. 3For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the sinful nature, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful man to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in sinful man, 4in order that the righteous requirements of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit.

I am not judging, I am stating facts. I do not presume to know the mind of God, I only go by what He wrote to us in the Bible. If we make up our own way of worship, is that not presuming to know the mind of God?

Going by the basic fundamentals of the Bible is not dangerous. A lot of religious teachers claim to teach the entire Bible, but they may "overlook" a passage or add something that the Bible is silent about. This is when it is dangerous.

Speaking of which, if you kept reading about a woman keeping her head covered, you'll also find that it says that God gave her her hair as a covering.

If you read some of these verses, they may seem "way too conservative" especially in today's society. But if you stop to think about them they really make a lot of sense mostly because pride likes to get in the way. The standards of the Bible were set up like this to keep that from happening.

Once again, I don't judge anyone, but I do challenge people to examine their method of worship to make sure it's acceptable to God. Otherwise what's the point in going at all?

Oh, and apstudent, I never said that Contemporary Christian music is wrong, but is it in your worship service? What does the Bible have to say about that? Look at 2 Timothy 3:16and 17 and Revelation 22: 18 and 19.

Yes, the Contemporary Christian Music is in our worship service. They play songs by Relient K, DC Talk,, Newsboys, Audio Adrenaline. However, I have read all of your posts and believe in one thing only. I love God and any way that I feel like showing my love to God is acceptable to him. Just as anywhere, anytime, is a good place to pray or worship God, any way that you wish to worship God is the same. Oh well, I did not take offense to what you said, and I hope you find peace with yourself in the way you worship.

I remember listening to DC Talk, Audio Adrenaline and Newsboys, in fact, those bands and Third Day were my favorite. But my taste in music has changed.

I'm glad for you that you are happy with your style of worship. Please don't think that I'm all hard core rules and regulations, I just have a passion for taking the Bible in its entirety.

These are some of my favorite passages:

Matthew 6:25-34
"Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or drink; or about your body, what you will wear. Is not life more important than food, and the body more important than clothes? 26Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than they? 27Who of you by worrying can add a single hour to his life[1] ?
28"And why do you worry about clothes? See how the lilies of the field grow. They do not labor or spin. 29Yet I tell you that not even Solomon in all his splendor was dressed like one of these. 30If that is how God clothes the grass of the field, which is here today and tomorrow is thrown into the fire, will he not much more clothe you, O you of little faith? 31So do not worry, saying, 'What shall we eat?' or 'What shall we drink?' or 'What shall we wear?' 32For the pagans run after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them. 33But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well. 34Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.

I also liked the prodical son in Luke 15 and of course the passages that deal with the crucifixion.

Another of my favorites is the parables of the sower. It's one of the reasons why I share the Bible in the way that I do. I feel like the sower. I only share what I know to be true. I don't force people to believe as I do, otherwise it's not their faith it's mine. I was forced to believe a faith that wasn't mine, by my family. The way they did that was, before I turned 18, I knew that my Catholic family would never let me see my mother if I didn't play the part of "a good little Catholic girl." They disapproved of what she taught me after she began reading the Bible.
I do have peace in the way that I worship now.

I liked the idea of a place on a literary forum where the Bible could be discussed. I didn't see much discussion, I saw a lot of favorite verses though. Which is all well and good but I'm glad I finally had a discussion. ;)

Hi, guys. I know I won't have to tell a lot, but I think you are right BOTH, and also Admin. Yes, there are rules, but many of them can be taken in differently. And there would be no progress if the rules aren't changed or made more flexible. Everybody has his/her own way to worship God, and as Apstudent said, it probably doesn't matter to God as long as you worship him. But the rules are also needed, because then there would be a chaos. It's important to find a way from both of the ways of worshiping.
You know what my opinions are, so I hope you don't mind I joined this conversation.

Well, I think the Bible ought to be taken literary. Common objection- quoting scriptures from the Old Testament. That was a different dispensation. the age of Law, if you will. Now we live in the age of grace, and those laws do not apply to us. However, the historic parts of the Bible have to be taken literaly and still apply to us. (Genesis, etc.)

The problem with "rules of worship" is- where exactly do you draw a line?
I used to go to an indipendent fundamental baptist church, led worship for a while. My guideline was that the music should be there to glorify God, not men. I don't have a oproblem with having a "contemporary" service, but again, where do you draw a line? I am not saying you have to wear a suite, but you shouldn't wear a pair of shorts or a mini skirt either. I am not saying there should be no other instruments then piano and Organ, but I don't think you should have Guns 'n' Roses like music either.

Shea, where do you go to school? I read in another thread that you are going to a Christian College, and it says you are from Florida, so I am just wondering if you are in Pensacola Christian College?

Stefan

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Originally Posted by SirStefan32

Shea, where do you go to school? I read in another thread that you are going to a Christian College, and it says you are from Florida, so I am just wondering if you are in Pensacola Christian College?

Stefan[/i]

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No, I went to Ohio Valley College in West Virginia on the Ohio border. It was centered around the Church of Christ congregational views. However, I found it and the churches in the area to be very liberal and few people new truth or worse yet, they didn't really care about it. Their idea of the Great Commission was to travel to foreign countries and forget about the people next door. From the example that they set, these people were more interested in traveling than spreading the gospel.

I'm now attending a Church of Christ here in Tampa, Florida. I am much more impressed with the example and preaching style here. I don't simply hear about God's love for me, but I also hear what I should do to continually earn His love though I am never worthy. There is a christian college here called Florida College, but I'm not going to attend there because I want to teach high school and thier certification is for elementary level.

Is Pensecola where you attended? What did you study?

:D test- new to site

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Originally Posted by Shea

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Originally Posted by SirStefan32

Shea, where do you go to school? I read in another thread that you are going to a Christian College, and it says you are from Florida, so I am just wondering if you are in Pensacola Christian College?

Stefan[/i]

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No, I went to Ohio Valley College in West Virginia on the Ohio border. It was centered around the Church of Christ congregational views. However, I found it and the churches in the area to be very liberal and few people new truth or worse yet, they didn't really care about it. Their idea of the Great Commission was to travel to foreign countries and forget about the people next door. From the example that they set, these people were more interested in traveling than spreading the gospel.

I'm now attending a Church of Christ here in Tampa, Florida. I am much more impressed with the example and preaching style here. I don't simply hear about God's love for me, but I also hear what I should do to continually earn His love though I am never worthy. There is a christian college here called Florida College, but I'm not going to attend there because I want to teach high school and thier certification is for elementary level.

Is Pensecola where you attended? What did you study?

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No, I am studying Psychology right now, but I would like to get a degree in Thelogy. I thought about going to Pensacola, but I guess it's too strick for me.

Stefan

Do you plan on using your Theology degree along with Psychology? I knew a guy at that Christian school who was studing psychology. He claimed to be a Christian, but as I got to know him, his attitude proved otherwise. I hope he finds peace so that he can better help others in the way that he said he would.

What sort of psychologist do you want to be?

Just had an extra idea to add to this topic. In 1 Thessalonians, Paul is admonishing the chuch at Thesalonica for their good work and gives them some final peices of advice including these verses;

1 Thessalonians 5:21 & 22

Test everything. Hold on to the good. 22Avoid every kind of evil.

Yeah, their short but it helps us to know exactly what we believe. Just think, if we let governmental officals just simply tell us what they feel should be a law, and we follow it without questioning it, aren't we being oppressed? Wouldn't we do the research ourselves? If a person researches laws to make sure thier rights are being properly observed, shouldn't they do the same to make sure their worship is correct to God who ordained our governments? (see Romans 13:1-7)

I would like to be a forensic psychologist, working for the FBI on profiling serial killers, etc. I don't really want to do psychoanalysis or anything like that. I think people need Bible and not some psychologist trying to help them.

Stefan

Shea... are you done rambling off verses that don't really even support your point? Such duckspeak!

Ok first of all.... like the previous message you dont have anything to support your point. You simply spurt facts that really dont have much to do with what the topic being consulted. First of all... the Bible references many many many many many times that all men everwhere should worship the Lord in all forms. The Bible states that men should sing " a new song " to the Lord every day of and praise. Without which, there would be no such thing, i believe. Furthermore, the bible references specific instances of David dancing in his palace and the streets BUCK NAKED as a result of being "overcome of joy over the Lord." The Bible also presents verses instructing people to "Sing a new song to the Lord" and "Worship the Lord Your God in all forms of praise." The Bible does not once even suggest that you should follow a specific doctrine or orthadoxy when worshippping the Lord, in fact, the Bible often incourages diversity and variety when praising or worshipping.

I am a member of the Church of Christ also, Shea. I have been taught that we should try to be as close to the church that Paul set up as we can, and to worship accordingly. There are some very traditional christians in our church that believe you shouldn't even use overhead projectors during worship. I, however, find it hard to convince myself that if someone worships a little differently than I do, but their passion for Christ is real, that they will be condemned for it. (There are limits though...I don't go along with the "whatever works for you" philosophy...it's not supposed to be "to each his own".) I guess I don't know exactly where I stand on it. I remember visiting a non-denominational church where they had a female song leader and a band, and something just didn't feel right about it. Any thoughts (or scriptures)?

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Originally Posted by SyZyGy

Ok first of all.... like the previous message you dont have anything to support your point. You simply spurt facts that really dont have much to do with what the topic being consulted. First of all... the Bible references many many many many many times that all men everwhere should worship the Lord in all forms. The Bible states that men should sing " a new song " to the Lord every day of and praise. Without which, there would be no such thing, i believe. Furthermore, the bible references specific instances of David dancing in his palace and the streets BUCK NAKED as a result of being "overcome of joy over the Lord." The Bible also presents verses instructing people to "Sing a new song to the Lord" and "Worship the Lord Your God in all forms of praise." The Bible does not once even suggest that you should follow a specific doctrine or orthadoxy when worshippping the Lord, in fact, the Bible often incourages diversity and variety when praising or worshipping.

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Excuse me, but could you please quote some of those passages? I don't like to take anyone's word as fact without a refrence. But do be careful, I've read myself the passages that advocates instrumental music in worship, but those are in the Old Testament. Nowhere in the New Testament does it say to use instruments. As you can read in Romans 7, we are no longer under the old Law.

1Do you not know, brothers--for I am speaking to men who know the law--that the law has authority over a man only as long as he lives? 2For example, by law a married woman is bound to her husband as long as he is alive, but if her husband dies, she is released from the law of marriage. 3So then, if she marries another man while her husband is still alive, she is called an adulteress. But if her husband dies, she is released from that law and is not an adulteress, even though she marries another man.
4So, my brothers, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit to God. 5For when we were controlled by the sinful nature, the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in our bodies, so that we bore fruit for death. 6But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.

Hopefully, you guys feel this scripture is appropriate for my point. But why don't you crack open a Bible and read it in context (or any of the scriptures that I mentioned for that matter)? It's pretty black and white to me.

Waxmephilosophical, I've attended congregations that wouldn't use overheads either, but it really dosen't make much sense. Something like that is a tool, not a change. For example, when God commanded Noah to build the Ark, He said to use gopher wood but he didn't say anything about a hammer or nails (if this is how he built it). The hammer or nails would be a tool. But if we were to have a gym or a hall build on to the building, that's not a necessary tool for worship and could cause problems. As far as the woman song leader, consider this passage,

2Timothy 2:11-15

11A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. 12I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent. 13For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. 15But women will be saved through childbearing--if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.

I, as a woman have no problem with this verse, but I do realize that in todays "liberated women" society, this verse gets overlooked a lot. This is the site to my congregation, it has a lot of links on it that might be helpful.

http://universitychurchofchrist.com/

Don't be afraid to check out a different congregation if you can. Because the Church of Christ congregations are not linked together, you might find one that teaches more accruately in another way. Just make sure you stick to your Bible and ask a lot of questions, don't take anyone's word for it. ;)