There is an photo exhibition at the State Library of NSW right now. Trust me, there is no God.
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There is an photo exhibition at the State Library of NSW right now. Trust me, there is no God.
God is a gimp.
Participating in this discussion in this way is a bit like participating in a discussion about why Lady MacBeth went insane by saying, "Trust me, there is no Lady MacBeth."Quote:
Originally Posted by thebagman
Okay, I can't help it. Where did you get this idea? And I mean I'd like actual references cited, preferably where I can look them up.Quote:
Originally Posted by blithe spirit
While you're getting hold of the references, I have another question.
Not very long ago, Christians would have burned you at the stake for suggesting that there was anything in creation that was not the work of God. However - I'm more interested in the logic than the heresy. If God didn't create Spina Bifida, who did?Quote:
Originally Posted by blithe spirit
No actually, it isn't.Quote:
Participating in this discussion in this way is a bit like participating in a discussion about why Lady MacBeth went insane by saying, "Trust me, there is no Lady MacBeth."
My participation in this discussion would go something like this: why did Lady Macbeth go insane? Because there is no God.
I'm not trying to be a smartass (maybe I am). I went to the exhibition yesterday, I needed something to take my mind off things. The last time I went there it was on Gibran (I think it was him), I was expecting something pleasant and they have a whole bunch of pictures of dead people. Which was nice.
An otherwise attractive girl had her nose and ears cut off for running away from an abusive husband. A HIV and drug abusers final moments of life. A mass of bodies from and earthquake, bodies of people executed in mexico for stealing drugs.
If God has a great plan for all of us I would very much like to know what it is. Otherwise I'm not really sure I want to have any part of it. A plan that we as human beings will never be able to grasp by a deity that may or may not exist sounds like a long shot to me.
Thank you blithe spirit for your comments though, that was actually quite nice. Togre, you're an idiot. I've have managed to get all that is good about Christianity followed by all that is bad in one thread.
the promotion of self-interest is a great cause of suffering. Humankind is not really a collective thinker and even where one society is of the same mind, it probably comes at great cost to another. Look at the sweat shops and third worlds who suffer at the hands of western self-interest. I really fail to see where God comes into it.
God does not promote suffering; humanity brings suffering upon itself by choices made. God is wondrous and we cannot claim to know.
blithe spirit, loving death seems unnatural to me. Accepting death as an unchangeable part of our lives is much easier said than done. Not fearing death is another thing entirely. Death should be a bad thing for everybody because it is a bad thing.
A very large chunk of Christianity is based on what happens after death (kingdom of heaven, afterlife, eternal suffering etc.) and how we should live our lives in preparation for it. Fear of death is a major draw for all religions. If you take that away what does in this case Christianity have to offer? A sense of belonging and a loving (not always) community. Moral code?
Yes and I've already covered this in another post, thank God we are not! The more people we get together the dumber we all seem to get. How about communism? Cults! And religion! Are we all doomed?Quote:
Humankind is not really a collective thinker and even where one society is of the same mind
All the more reason to ignore him.Quote:
God does not promote suffering; humanity brings suffering upon itself by choices made. God is wondrous and we cannot claim to know.
There's a picture of a kid who was born with a condition that made her skull swell up to the size of a watermelon. I can't remember clearly but I think it was a consequence of her parents exposure to agent orange in Vietnam. That one kid has to suffer for the moron decisions made by politicians who have nothing to do with her. Oh wait, I suppose they do have something to do with her after all. Wicked sense of justice. And humor.
To punish one person for the sake of another is stupid because we are individuals first and a collective second (new word for me). At least, that's how I like to see it. Anyway I thought that was what Jesus was sent here to do. Didn't he die for our sins? Why are we still suffering?
Delta, man causes some suffering by choosing sin over obedience to God. Gluttony and Greed are sins.
I hate to disappoint you but God gave me a wonderful mind to think for myself and my comment that there is no time in heaven is a result of my own logic...not google or wikipedia. If there was such a thing as time in heaven (or in God's kingdom) then heaven wouldn't be the perfect place of no suffering and pure bliss would it? Nor would there be eternal life because time would cause aging...there would be impatience, procrastination, deadlines to meet, all things having to do with the constraints of time.Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkBastable
Everything God created was perfect...sin then entered into the picture via satan (post#4). Remember though that God allows these types of suffering sometimes for reasons listed in post #2 and/or many reasons not listed here for lack of time and space. God is not limited to one reason...he can have many reasons for each step in his perfect plan.Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkBastable
God says in the Bible that "the sins of the fathers with be visited upon his children". You may not like that but it's the way it is due to natural consequences of man's sinful choices.Quote:
Originally Posted by thebagman
And, yes, Jesus died for our sins so that when we die we can be sinless and therefore worthy to enter into eternal life and not have to pay for our sins in hell (depending upon whether we believe or not). As long as we are in the world, however, there will be constant choices for us to make between good and evil and obeying god or not.
There are two types of death. Physical death and spiritual death. One will experience spiritual death for eternity if headed for hell. But believers will experience everlasting life spiritually and will recieve new bodies according to the Bible. Have you ever read about near death experiences where they see and experience an indescribable beauty that they don't want to come back from?Quote:
Originally Posted by thebagman
As Mark Twain remarked, there is no laughter in heaven because there is no suffering in heaven.Quote:
Originally Posted by blithe spirit
The argument from Evil admits of only two solutions. 1. Lebniz's one, satirized by Voltaire in Candide, that claims that God has put just enough suffering into the world to allow us to appreciate the good in it, which is obviously not true as there is far more suffering than that present here. 2. That of Lord Alfred North Whitehead who disavowed God's omnipotence and thereby excused him by saying He doesn't promote suffering and He would alliviate it, if He could, but He can't.
Jesus has been around for two thousand years and mankind for much longer. What happens to all those people who came before him?
You know, it never occurred to me that He simply couldn't.
Of course He could if he wanted to, he simply doesn't want to. God must like a joke.Quote:
Originally Posted by Des Essientes
Okay - this is your own vision of heaven. Fair enough. Though - yes - it's difficult to see how you can have everlasting life without time for it to last forever in, which is why you've said that there isn't any I suppose. The Bible, though, might disagree with you.Quote:
Originally Posted by blithe spirit
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
John 3:16 (as any soccer fan knows)
But who created leukaemia? Who came up with the idea and invented the mechanisms by which it comes into being?Quote:
Originally Posted by blithe spirit
For everything, MarkBastable, there is a reason - that's the only plan that I can see around here.Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkBastable