Mozart in English

Hi there ERS,

Yes, and I believe the time is arriving when we see more clearly what has been done. The literal invention of a few handfuls of 'great' composers whose music and whose careers have undergone a sanitised 'makeover' (with the help of publishers, patrons, and music managers), these accepted as gospel and now towering over the musical landscape as virtual gods of a pagan musical pantheon. While 7,000 composers of the 18th and 19th centuries are not only unperformed and almost completely unknown, but the status of these 'great' composers is pumped out ad nauseum and performed to the exclusion of all others with virtually zero criticism or cross-examination of their real lives and careers.

Mozart was not the first 'faked' composer. Nor was G.F. Handel. (Although both were really actors). Nor was Josef Haydn or even Ludwig van Beethoven. The reality of Mozart is here is a body of music (much of it wonderful) that has been attributed by hoary convention and countless biographers with virtually no critical examination of what has been attributed to the 'genius of Salzburg' whose biography and career history is virtually never questioned. Though its well known particulars fall to pieces at each and every stage when subjected to the light of day. I believe we can even speak of a pseudo-musicology, the net effect of which has made fools of all of us and which has robbed us of the lives and musical achievements of hundreds, even thousands of composers. Mozart is the Adidas or the Nike of the musical world. Unable to stand on its own without patronage and 'experts' who never seem able to defend what they write and teach.

This is the fruit of a philosophy. The 'enlightenment' philosophy. Which needed secularised heroes. And found them. In 'geniuses' who rubbed shoulders with the very men who manufactured them, and whose ancestors defend them to this day. And so musicology, a great science, was virtually kidnapped and emasculated from the time of its birth, made to conform to the emerging myths of the state. With the history of music as we know it a bunch of myths, under corporate, even global control. This is the importance of a modern and critical examination of Mozart, myth and reality.

I can assure you that almost nothing written of W.A. Mozart is true. Biographically and musically. And what are the implications of that ? I can no longer be surprised that such and such a work is not, in fact, his. And I am not alone in saying so.

Regards

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Originally Posted by Musicology

... Thus avoiding the inelegancies and limitations of German, Italian, French, Dutch, and all other inferior languages from countries which the said Mozart travelled to and lived in. This in the interest of harmony and accuracy. For our educational, cultural and musical benefit.

... In conformity to the rules and attitudes of students and teachers everywhere. And presided over by learned men and women whose only motivation is free speech.

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Originally Posted by lellyvigni

Hi Brian

I am sorry I cannot write in Italian but I understand and accept the administrators here can decide as they please.

Thank You

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Originally Posted by Mutatis-Mutandi

Is there a rule against creating multiple accounts and then manufacturing false conversations?

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Originally Posted by OrphanPip

Why the powers that be choose to tolerate Musicology's odd antics is beyond me.

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F i n a l_____W a r n i n g

Keep it off the boards.

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Hi Gilliatt

Yes I suspect that this ipothethical man Andiamo Burmudez de Azpeitia, you're are talking about, was probably the same person who told a lot of stories about his pupil Amadé, for example that he was a genius by nature, without any school, that his exercices in Bologna was perfect, that the music by Padre Martini actually was his music, that he copied by memory the Misere by allegri and so on. Lot of innocent people then belived in the man of tyhe mountain. For example Nissen, Jahn, Abert, Saint-Foix told the same according to this man. I obviously do not belive in this man, I don't belive he has never existed. But I know that also there are people that belive in such tales.

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Originally Posted by Gilliatt Gurgle

Hello Robert, hope all is well and welcome Lellyvigni.

Regarding Mozart’s schooling and the possible reason for the poor exam scores.

Mozart did not go to a school, but rather was homeschooled from the years 1761 to 1768 by the hermit Andiamo Burmudez de Azpeitia with support from Leopold. You may recall from my past discussions regarding Andiamo and his role in the hermit lend-lease program established between St. Maximus in Salzburg and Saints B____ and S____ in La Mancha and Azpeitia (Loyola), Spain respectively. Andiamo was sent to Salzburg in 1759 and took up residence in the St. Maximus hermitage located in the cliffs just above St. Peters of Salzburg.

Here’s a link regarding the St. Maximushole hermitage:

http://www.showcaves.com/english/at/misc/Maximus.html

Respectfully submitted,

Gilliatt

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Thank you Pyras,

I will reply to you in detail in a few minutes. In the meantime -

Those interested in this controversial subject of Mozart (biographical and musical) can read below a further excellent article on the subject by Luca Bianchini on the background to a work known in the Mozart music catalogue as KV44. A church work composed (it is believed) around the same time of Mozart’s first visit to Italy in 1770. Hopefully the facts will speak for themselves.


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I'll download it, thanks. I have also a philips CD of this KV44. It is recorded as a piece by Mozart. I'm curious to read this pdf.

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Originally Posted by Musicology

Thank you Pyras,

I will reply to you in detail in a few minutes. In the meantime -

Those interested in this controversial subject of Mozart (biographical and musical) can read below a further excellent article on the subject by Luca Bianchini on the background to a work known in the Mozart music catalogue as KV44. A church work composed (it is believed) around the same time of Mozart’s first visit to Italy in 1770. Hopefully the facts will speak for themselves.

http://www.mediafire.com/?gy9lsgxhx925c0x


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Yes Pyras,

KV44 is an important piece for various reasons. I am sure this free article will add to your enjoyment of this music.

Regards

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Originally Posted by Pyras

I'll download it, thanks. I have also a philips CD of this KV44. It is recorded as a piece by Mozart. I'm curious to read this pdf.

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Mozart in the Cibavit KV.44, according to the musicologist Hermann Abert is proving himself very talented in counterpoint. Scholars Saint Fox and Wyzewa show KV44 must have been composed in 1770.

I see in the .pdf that subsequent studies are more detailed in identifying the precise location and date of its composition: Bologna, the church of San Domenico on October 6th, 1770.

I'm happy. I know that my CD of KV44 was recorded in 1991, by the recording company Philips as part of the Complete Mozart Edition.
And also the Augsburger Mozartfest in may 2010 used all academic resources in the musicological research field to propose the mozarteans KV44 and KV86 (the Antifona we also are talking about in this thread ) to show the Mozart's knowledge of the counterpoint.

BUT:)

Wolfgang had merely copied the first from an Introitus composed by Johann Stadlmayr who lived (1575-1648) !!! and the second from Padre Martini !!!

So the Cibavit KV44piece first created around 1600 is not at all comparable with th second work already shown to have been made for Mozart for the exam by Martini in 1770.
"KV44 was also written in a totally different era and the two works were written in different places under completely different circumstances"

And different styles, also.
It's amazing.

Would that be Padre Giovanni Battista Martini or perhaps padre Cirillo Martini?

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Originally Posted by yanni

Would that be Padre Giovanni Battista Martini or perhaps padre Cirillo Martini?

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I think there is just a Padre Martini, I don't know if there are others Martini. In those times I always read about Padre Martini, I think the full name is Giovanni Batista
Who is that Cirillo?

According to Katy Romanou and Yannis Belonis-my deepest compliments to them- 'Abate Cirillo Martini is the one Burney and the Mozarts met in Venice in August. He-'allegedly'*-supplied Burney and G.B.Martini both with info on greek orthodox music (Cretan via Corfu-Antonio Cocchini's San Giacomo theater-and Zante) they next included in their Music Dictionnaries. He had just returned from the East'.

Funny thing though: Abert and Spencer ommit the fact (they just mention Burney and the Mozarts 'attended a performance of a mass amd vespers' on the 13th of August**(p 132) avoiding to mention abate Cirillo, Balthasar Galuppi (whom they also met) and his friend and associate (their elbows touched at the -Cocchi's-hospitale degli incurabili) Gioachino Cocchi (missing from London as from 1764-5. resurfaced there 1771). (I believe they avoid mentioning Venice alltogether in fact.)

Funnier still: The 'August blank' at http://www.mozartproject.org/biography/ch_66_70.html concerning the Mozarts whereabouts in August, in harmony with http://letters.mozartways.com/eng/di...=8&ID3=3&IDL=4

But worry not: Saint Martin in the fields (of musicology) will do his miracle again!

In fact, he already did!

Ta-ta!

Antonios Emm. Kokkinis.

* Allegri's precious 'Miserere' was copied about that time(August) by Burney. One of the three only copies existing at the time, belonged to padre G.B.Martini.
** Actually on August 15th (Ascension day, see The Doge of Venice Departing for the Lido, drawing by Giovanni Antonio Canaletto) they (if together with their 'shadow' C.Burney) were at San Marco Cathedral in Venice to hear their host, Galuppi maestro di Capellla, and enjoy the festivities!
According to Leopold: "We`re still on the estates alla Croce del Biacco that belong to Comte Bolognetti but which Count Pallavicini has leased for a number of years. The great annual festival that the members of the Bologna Philharmonic Society celebrate every year with the greatest magnificence with Vespers and High Mass will take place on the 30th August. (Bologna 21 Aug. 1770) Guess WHO IS REALLY this 'count Pallavicini'!!

Yanni,

I have always believed that language was given to us to communicate. That we should avoid disjointed exchanges on subjects where the connection is not plain and obvious. The moderators have given us one last chance to have a discussion of Mozart's career. And your last post returns to an obscurantism and innuendo which, as usual, requires some clarification. For those who may be reading this thread.

The simple fact is that eastern influence (occultic and other kinds) was coming in to European music over centuries through a very ancient connection between the republic of Venice and Byzantium (aka Constantinople/Istanbul), which dates back in to pagan antiquity. The early history of opera (a revival of classical antiquity) is clear evidence of this. Hence the early patronage of opera in Italy by families whose roots were those of the Etruscans etc. Take for example Medici patronage of opera and the territory of the oldest kingdom in Europe - Tuscany. The translation of ancient texts from the east was a major part of obtaining libretti for these stage productions. And yes, Abbe Cirillo Martini is involved with these texts. So was Abbe Vogler on his long travels. And yes, they are all connected.

The connection you have refered to (between the Hospital degli Incurabili in Venice and various composers) is of course plain fact. Once again showing that Venice is importing what we can call a revival of the 3rd 'religion' that was rapidly growing in influence within European culture through the secret societies and fraterntities (often unknown to its members at lower levels). Lorenzo da Ponte, Casanova etc etc examples of this. With the models being the pagan eastern empires of Babylon, Assyria and (eventually) Egypt and their beliefs. These combined. Hence the interest in ancient Egypt by the 1780's in operas such as Die Zauberflote and also the Egyptianisation of Freemasonry by Cagliostro and others during that same decade (the 1780's). These things are clear. By which time Freemasonry had long ago transfered from Venice to England and their Empire. (Modelled as it was on the Venetian).

An article will shortly be posted here on the legend of Mozart writing from memory the Allegri 'Miserere' in Rome. That story is fiction. And the music of the 'Miserere' was not difficult to obtain. Copies were available in Rome, Vienna and many other places. What WAS difficult is the fact that it was always sung differently each time it was performed. (There was a system of variations). The Burney version is a mess. Burney was closely associated with the emerging British Empire, his daughter working directly for George 3rd in London. So was the version attributed to W.A. Mozart (which disappeared because it was a total mess. In fact, Mozart made no such version and merely scribbled notes on a piece of paper, twice). The rest is folklore, hyperbole and nonsense.

You asked me to identify who is 'this' Count Pallavicini. The Pallavicini were a large family. Many of them Jesuits. This is well documented. They had close association with the Cecil family of England and one of them was head of the Venetian intelligence services during the time of Elizabeth 1st. All of this is well known. Much less common is to bring these things together so that everyone can know what is being talked about. I hope this may improve the situation.


Regards

Never expected you would address my last in detail, Robert.

'This' count Pallavicini, already identified by italians as "Pallavicini-Durazzo', is the same man as Durazzo/Gluck/Galuppi/padre Martini-Galiani ie Gioachino Cocchi (plus many more aliases).

Will be addressing the matter soon in my other thread (Puzzle of Bach variations).

As to your 'The moderators have given us one last chance':
Speak for yourself only, please.
No thread of mine has ever been banned in this forum.

There are some of 'us' who do defend the right of free expression, you see!

My regards to you, the markiss, pyras etc!

Hi there Yanni,

I am pleased you have never had a thread blocked in your entire career. This reminds me of the case of a woman who drove so slowly and without controversy that she became the most controversial driver in England - one fraustrated driver of a milk lorry doing a profitable trade in cottage cheese as the traffic jam extended more than 30 miles behind her.

But seriously, yes, the Pallavicini, besides having several members who were papal material and a few cardinals were of course well known as a Jesuit family from the 16th century. Of special interest here are those involved in acting as patrons to Mozart in Bologna during his 1770 stay. (A sheer coincidence, of course). And if you find some proofs of Pallavicini/Gluck/Galuppi/Padre Martini-Galiani/Giochino Cocchi and many other aliases being one and the same human being that would certainly justify a long post on the thread you refer to. Which would be a great service to those who would read it including myself - since that kind of post requires a trail in front rather than behind. Which you have kindly supplied.

Regards

Before your next accident, Robert aka the Stirling Moss of Musicology, why don't you try explaining the Grove-ling 'source-inconsistencies', evident in my post 25 above (the two or three 'padre Martini', the absolute absence of records-including Leopold Mozart's own 1770 correspondence, on his earlier 'London maestro friend'-on Cocchi's 1765 to 1771 whereabouts, on the coordinated and systematic 'blank' covering August 1770 meeting in Venice of C.Burney-whom you have thoroughly researched as you claimed to then introduce Cowper instead-with a totally unknown and equally fictitious 'abate Cirillo Martini' handing over to Burney 'greek orthodox music'*instead of the "Miserere', on Galuppi performing in Cocchi's-and Hasse's- Incurabili while Cocchi was there etc etc), instead of accusing me for jamming the road to your "blame for all" jesuits "Happy End"?

Are the "sources", singing their false tunes in harmony as above, jesuits in disguise?

Ta-ta!

*Antifonas is a greek word!

Yanni,

I am convinced you are keeping an elephant in your home. Whose main function is to compress your posts by sitting on them. Thus achieving for mankind in a few paragraphs a solution for the problems of the whole universe (real and supposed) but with special care taken to omit the subject of our enquiry.

You will be pleased to know the 'Miserere' of Allegri and the story of Mozart writing it down from memory in Rome will be the subject of an article to be posted here in the next week or two. As for Baldassare Galuppi ('Il Buranello') - (1706-85) that composer was closely associated with the last ruler of the Medici (Giovanni). It was the Medici who first imported texts from ancient Greece and elsewhere centuries earlier on which librettos of early operas were based. Venice being hugely important in opera development. (Where the Incurabili is located). Overseeing a huge development of opera roughly corresponding with the aims of the Council of Trent - shortly after the formation of the Venetian sponsored Jesuit Order, soon being the principal agents of Counter Reformation. A counter reformation which involved the wholesale patronage of art, sculpture and music. As for Talmudic connections of early Jesuit order members and their strong links with Venice (including the Incurabili) these are of course purely coincidental. As usual.

You are of course right Charles Burney was employed by the elites of England (as were others of the British nobility) in a growing system of cultural globalism by means of this occultism and although you never said it I feel specially generous in crediting this fact to you. (Burney's daughter, Fanny, employed for years as a personal assistant to Queen Charlotte, the German wife of George 3rd). Cardinal Contarini (of that Venetian family who provided numerous Dodges to Venice) was as you know the first patron of Ignatius Loyola, founder of the Jesuit Order. And, St. Francis of Assisi was, of course, a Doge of Venice himself. Which is important because Assisi (the location) features highly in the career of Padre Martini and others of Bologna and its Aristotelian university. (The Venetians and the 'new' Venetians of the British Empire liked Aristotle's conception of government very much).

Apart from this your post seems remarkably free of inconsistencies and of genetically modified contents.

Regards