August '10 Reading: Razor's Edge

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Originally Posted by dfloyd

but I didn't know about Thomas Mann, not that it matters much. I think these people kept their sexual proclivities more to temselves rather than parading them for all to see, such as Truman Capote.

I last saw Noel Coward in Graham Greene's "Our Man in Havana", a great spy spoof. John Le Carre tried to equal it in "The Panama Tailor", but it didn't come off as well as Grahame Greene's novel.

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Well when you have war hero and brilliant mathematician Alan Turing being chemically castrated for homosexuality around that time in Britain, it's not like you would be sensible to publicly announce it. If decrypting the Nazi codes wouldn't protect you, being a famous novelist wouldn't either. You seem to be forgetting that homosexuality wasn't legal until the 70s.

On the subject of Thomas Mann, he reveals his sexuality as bisexual in his diaries.

This insistence as if heterosexuals don't broadcast their sexual proclivities in public. What do you consider a wedding band to declare, if not that the person is in a heterosexual relationship. The broadcasting of heterosexual proclivity is so common in our society that it is just taken as given and doesn't shock our sensibilities.

Oh, how we love discussing people's sexuality more than anything else! :p

So, I have checked the libraries in two different counties and two nearby book stores; no chance.

Is it a good book really? Worth ordering it online?

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Originally Posted by Scheherazade

Oh, how we love discussing people's sexuality more than anything else! :p

So, I have checked the libraries in two different counties and two nearby book stores; no chance.

Is it a good book really? Worth ordering it online?

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I don't know which bookstores you have tried but I know that it's readily available in London. I am naturally biased in favour of it as it is one of my favourite novels. However, the poll shows a favourable reaction to it and if I couldn't get it locally, I would certainly get it online. If you are not familiar with Maugham, it will give you a good idea of his unique writing style; easy to read but very insightful into human nature and without being in any way judgemental.

I have tried a small bookstore as well as local branch of Waterstones. I will see how I get on with the book I am reading at the moment and order it next week maybe.

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Originally Posted by Brian Bean

very insightful into human nature and without being in any way judgemental.

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Is this where you got the inspiration for your attitude towards music then? :p

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Originally Posted by Scheherazade

I have tried a small bookstore as well as local branch of Waterstones. I will see how I get on with the book I am reading at the moment and order it next week maybe.Is this where you got the inspiration for your attitude towards music then? :p

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Well pop music is often described as being a great noise to listen to.
I am in complete agreement with this sentiment because the etymology of the word is:

early 13c., "loud outcry, clamor, shouting," from O.Fr. noise "uproar, brawl" apparently from L. nausea "disgust, annoyance, discomfort," lit. "seasickness" (see nausea). Another theory traces the O.Fr. word to L. noxia "hurting, injury, damage." OED considers that "the sense of the word is against both suggestions," but nausea could have developed a sense in V.L. of "unpleasant situation, noise, quarrel" (cf. O.Prov. nauza "noise, quarrel"). Replaced native gedyn (see din).:biggrin5:

one not noted for its cultural aspects, but our library has most of Maugham's works and recently bought a 10-cd sets of The Razor's Edge. I am on cd #5 of the set now, but I have read the novel a few times as well.

If you want to buy on-line, try Abe, Alibris, or Biblio. I have had better luck with these than Amazon.com.

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Originally Posted by dfloyd

one not noted for its cultural aspects, but our library has most of Maugham's works and recently bought a 10-cd sets of The Razor's Edge. I am on cd #5 of the set now, but I have read the novel a few times as well.

If you want to buy on-line, try Abe, Alibris, or Biblio. I have had better luck with these than Amazon.com.

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I have just checked Amazon and there are plenty of copies available.

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Originally Posted by Brian Bean

Well pop music is often described as being a great noise to listen too.

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By whom?

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I am in complete agreement with this sentiment because the etymology of the word is:

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Whether it is noisy or not is not the issue here but whether people have a right to listen to and like this kind of music if they choose to do so.

And whether we should respect their prefences...

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Originally Posted by dfloyd

If you want to buy on-line, try Abe, Alibris, or Biblio. I have had better luck with these than Amazon.com.

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I was surprised that libraries did not have copies of Maugham's books... Not only the local branch but none in the county.

I think I will go to Speedy Hen (my supermarket gives me some loyalty points, which I can use to buy books online). They deliver within 3 days, usually.

Thanks for the recommendations, Dfloyd and Brian :)

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Originally Posted by Brian Bean

.......Much of his life was detailed in a better, to my mind, biography by Ted Morgan ( a man, incidentally, whose life is almost as interesting as Maugham's own ); .......
For all that the New York Times article tries to write Maugham off, it is interesting to note that the same has been said by many other critics; but here we are, forty eight years after his death, and he is still very much in print. Of course, there will come a time when he is no longer read but that will be the reading public's loss.

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Thanks for the info on the Morgan bio, it does look interesting.

What you say is true, I didn't find TRE dated. The story line is timeless.
As I mentioned however, I did find Larry's character, inner motivations to be a bit thin. I wanted more. Of course we can come to conclusions and speculate, but I'd have appreciated....not more physical detail, but for Larry to show more feeling. I know he was shell shocked, burned out but while I knew it, I didn't feel it. If that makes any sort of sense.

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Originally Posted by plainjane

Thanks for the info on the Morgan bio, it does look interesting.

What you say is true, I didn't find TRE dated. The story line is timeless.
As I mentioned however, I did find Larry's character, inner motivations to be a bit thin. I wanted more. Of course we can come to conclusions and speculate, but I'd have appreciated....not more physical detail, but for Larry to show more feeling. I know he was shell shocked, burned out but while I knew it, I didn't feel it. If that makes any sort of sense.

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Yes it does make sense to some degree. I think that Maugham's problem was that he had to show Larry as being distanced from people by his wartime experience and this meant that he couldn't be shown in the round as the other characters are in the story. It is interesting that, although the novel centre's on an an incident during WWI, Maugham didn't write it until 1943/4 when he was living in America; having escaped from his home in France when the Germans invaded. It may be due to the fact that the inter-war years were a period when he was involved in writing plays and travelling around the Far East gathering material for his other novels and short stories.

as Plain Jane says, but wondering what it (life) was all about. Larry was, after all an aviator, not an infantryman, who would be more susceptible to shell shock. In the episode where Larry tells of his Irish friend, a fellow aviator, dying and not realizing he was going to until near the end, I think Maugham tells us all we need to know about Larry's war time experience. I don't think anyone can know what it was like to fly one of those glued- together WW1 aircraft which spit out 50 calibre machine-gun buulets, sometimes shooting off their own propellor if not properly synchronized. I wouldn't call Larry burnt out, but rather questioning his pre WWI values.

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Originally Posted by dfloyd

as Plain Jane says, but wondering what it (life) was all about. Larry was, after all an aviator, not an infantryman, who would be more susceptible to shell shock. In the episode where Larry tells of his Irish friend, a fellow aviator, dying and not realizing he was going to until near the end, I think Maugham tells us all we need to know about Larry's war time experience. I don't think anyone can know what it was like to fly one of those glued- together WW1 aircraft which spit out 50 calibre machine-gun buulets, sometimes shooting off their own propellor if not properly synchronized. I wouldn't call Larry burnt out, but rather questioning his pre WWI values.

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I don't want to preempt plainjane but I think she was using 'shell shocked' in a general sense rather than literally. Maugham served as an ambulance driver on the western front during the war and his description of his experiences there makes for grim reading. Presumably Larry would have been flying with the Lafayette squadron which lost about a fifth of their pilots during the conflict so I imagine he was pretty war-weary by the end.

perhaps war weary. All of his friends in Chicago felt that Larry was suffering from what he had experienced in the war, and that he would eventually come around. That is, he would get back into the swing of things, get a job, and ride on the post war prosperity. Larry, however, didn't want this. Rather than suffering from the common elements of battle fatigue, he was suffering from having his prewar values destroyed. This is why I feel Maugham gives the reader enough to go on. Larry wasn't, as Graham Greene said in his own title, a Burnt-Out Case. He was in search of a new set of values. That is why he couldn't marry Isabelle and go back to Chicago. Telling more of Larry's war experience is unnecessary. He tells all when he is asked by Maugham what he wants to do and he replies, "Loaf, just loaf."

Yes, Brian, you are correct, I realized later that more what I meant was post-traumatic shock from being in battle, and seeing his friend[s] die.
Certainly that is a terrible thing in itself, with long reaching effects.

To me what it comes down to is that Maugham, in Larry's case at least, did not show us, he told us. Anyone can tell, but showing brings the story to a much higher and more effective level. Perhaps that is why Maugham said of himself......."I know just where I stand, in the very front row of the second-rate.” .........[from the NYT article I posted above].

Not such a bad position after all, and the quote shows a brutal honesty about himself that is rare enough in this world. He is to be commended IMO.

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Originally Posted by plainjane

Yes, Brian, you are correct, I realized later that more what I meant was post-traumatic shock from being in battle, and seeing his friend[s] die.
Certainly that is a terrible thing in itself, with long reaching effects.

To me what it comes down to is that Maugham, in Larry's case at least, did not show us, he told us. Anyone can tell, but showing brings the story to a much higher and more effective level. Perhaps that is why Maugham said of himself......."I know just where I stand, in the very front row of the second-rate.” .........[from the NYT article I posted above].

Not such a bad position after all, and the quote shows a brutal honesty about himself that is rare enough in this world. He is to be commended IMO.

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Well it would have been difficult for Maugham to show rather than tell for two reasons. First, as the narrator he had to tell at second hand what had happened to Larry on his travels, if he had abandoned using the first person, the connecting thread between Larry and the other characters, namely Maugham himself, would have been broken.
Secondly, Maugham actually described himself as a teller of tales, so he was more inclined to tell rather than show what was happening.
It's true that anyone can tell, but few have told their stories with such telling effect.
It is also true that he didn't write for posterity. He knew his limitations but within those limits he is one of the best writers of the twentieth century.
It's not for nothing that there has been fierce competition for many of his original manuscripts by university libraries; most of them American unfortunately.