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Hmm maybe the homosexuality would explain why they are wore tights :smilewinkgrin:Quote:
Originally Posted by neilgee
Of course I kid.
On a more serious note, I did really like the way they explained the costume in the book. How it was meant to be a way of celebrating and embracing the movement of the body.
It is almost a sort of Greek reverence for the human form, and it was as close as they could come to nudity. A sort of modern day version of the classical Greek nude heroes.
Just wanted to jump in here real quickly. I'm about 200 pages into the novel and have liked it quite a bit thus far, but not as much as I would like to.
So far, what I haven't liked is the writing style which seems to be, in several places, over written. I remember one place when Joe was waking up one morning Chabon said something like ". . . .and the sky was blue; it was as blue as the ribbon on a first place lamb". . .eech! That last clause just seems so counter productive: instead of leaving me with an image of a blue sky (his intention) I get a picture of a fat sheep. Nice.
And there are a lot of sentences and phrases in the novel that illustrate this over-writing style (in my opinion).
However, the idea that I really like is his addressing the low, pulpy origin of the American comic book in immigrant Jewish culture.
I'll post some more thoughtful comments later; but I'm at work now and don't have my book with me (I just needed a little break).
The thing that kind of bothers me at times is the way in which every time I start a new chapter it makes me feel like i am jumping into the middle of a stroy. In which each new chapter will be about something that has nothing to do with what happened in the chapter before it and it always takes me a moment to get my barrings and figure out just what is going on. It gives me the feeling each time, that I have missed something.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Comedian
I'm still waiting for my copy to get to the library. Should be another week.
One of the things that strikes out at me as being rather interesting, and quite unique from what I am use to reading in most books which deal with American culture, is how optimistic this book seems to be in the idea of the "American Dream" While things may not be altogether idealistically perfect, it is not the usual doom and gloom of what a shame the American Dream is.
Thus far it seems instead to be a success story more so than a story of people having thier lives destroyed by buying into the "dream." It is a picture of possibilities, and what people can do who have talent and initiative and set thier minds to do.
Perhaps that is part of the comic book nature of the story. Joe and Sammy, are like comic icons themselves in the way they represent unlikely possibilities in achieving thier own dreams, and most comics, at least what I know of them, while they do have a sort of dark side to them, offer with thier masked heroes, and defenders of justice, protectors of the innocent and inherently positive and optimistic message.
I just got my copy today. I got through about fifty pages, I should be done in a couple of days.
This is a really interesting post, DM. And I can totally see that happening too. Carl Elbing, the Saboteur, has been one of the more interesting characters in the novel, and he is clearly set up to parallel the traditional comic book villain (in real life). In many ways, he's the same as Joe and Sammy, but has simply taken another course.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Muse
I've also really enjoyed seeing how those early comics writers and artists were taken for a ride, financially, by the companies that they worked for -- losing nearly all rights to their characters.
Still, despite this financial manipulation, you're point -- that the book is more optimistic about the American dream is an important one.
You know what I think this book really lacks? Art. It'd be great to see, every now and then, pages or panels from the Escapist or Luna Moth. . .
Yet even despite how they are treated by their employers, and the way in which they have lost most to all rights to their own creations, Sammy and Joe still have done finically quite well for themselves. They are the classic case of going from nothing to "everything" the old rags to riches story. Especially Joe who started out as a refuge with nothing but the clothes upon his back. But through their talent, determination and hard work they were able to achieve finical success and move up the social class system in the world.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Comedian
Yes you make an interesting point about Elbing, just as like in the comic books, he is set up as a counter to Joe/The Escapist, and it is interesting the way in which comic books are reflected in the real lives of the characters and the connection that the author draws between the comics and life, and perhaps how the comics can be seen as a sort of exaggeration of real life, as well as how much the creators put themselves into the comics.
I agree, there were moments when I would have loved to see what the characters looked like and had a glimpse of some of the comic books, and for a book that revolves around comics, I think it would have been a nice addition if the writer had incorporated that into the work in some way
Haha though shortly after I posted my comment about the optimism in the book it started to take a sudden very depressing turn.
Also random side note, reading this book made me suddenly want to go out and watch Citizen Kane which I have never seen before.
Man -- did the book take a sudden change! DM -- I think I hit that part just about after I posted my reply to your comments earlier. I was not at all prepared for the whole Joe in an Antarctic military base! And then Sammy and Rosa. . but that make a little more sense.
This book is really trying hard to create a tragic/comedy feel with an aspect of the surreal without delving into fantasy. It's a tough line to write and I think that Chabon does it passably well, but on the whole, I've had trouble keeping into the story. . . . which is a shame because I really wanted to like this book.
One thing that I think he does really well is to show the great role that immigrants (especially western European and Jewish) played in creating the American comic book and comic book culture. I think it'd be interesting now to read some of those early Golden Age titles with an eye for this context.
That is well said, and an interesting point. I was so sad about Sammy and Tracy, I was really rooting for them, but I had a sense considering the time period that it was destined to come to some tragic end, I was still holding out hope.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Comedian
I have to say after the shooting of the dog I nearly threw the book against the wall and wanted to just stop reading right there. That pissed me off so much, I could barely keep reading, and after that I kind of wanted Joe to die.
I am starting to recover from the trauma now.
Yes I agree for me the best part of this book was having a behind the scenes look into the world of comics and the prominent role that the Jewish immigrants had in comic book creation, and seeing how they came into being, and the story behind them. It earned me a new respect for comics.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Comedian
I read this book a few years ago, the Pulitzer claimed my attention, I am not much into Chabon but this one is great because it has so many layers: basically it's a story about American pop culture but then involves WWII, homosexuality, immigration - the two main characters live in a completely different way their "american dream" - and then the "escapism" - maybe the main theme of the novel - this was such a satisfactory read!
I couldn't quite get into this story. I've tried and failed several times to get interested. It's well written, the story is somewhat intriguing, but something has kept it from grabbing me in:(
I just finished reading the book and all in all I thought it was an interesting book and I enjoyed it. One of the things I liked most about the book was the behind the scenes look it offered in the creation of comic books. I really enjoyed reading about the history of comics, and it did give me a new apperception for comics and a new way of looking at comic books.
At times the book was a bit tedious to read, and I would not call it a captivating story, or a page turner. I did struggle to get through certain parts of it, but I think it was worth the reading and I am glad that I have done so.
Though I am not usually one for sentimentality, I did find the relationship between Joe and Sammy and the way in which they had remained loyal to each other throughout the story to be quite touching and it was one of my favorite parts of the book.
Also loved the way that "Escapist" theme played throughout the book and touched almost all of the characters in a variety of different ways, and the way their own life experience reflected the comic books and what the Escapist character stood for.
Yep -- I just finished reading the novel last night. And the last 100 pages or so I found really moving and page-turning (but on the whole I agree with DM's assessment above). The idea of escape became vibrant, sad, comical and overall -- real. I also really enjoyed Joe's return to the Golem, though I think that I do not fully understand the role of the Golem in the novel.
I agree that I am a bit sketchy on what role or significance the Golem is meant to play, as it both starts and ends with the Golem, bot the physical Golem and the comic Golem, clearly it is intended to be an important part to the story, but I cannot make out just what it is meant to represent.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Comedian
Perhaps the Golem coming back to Joe in nothing more than a pile of dust is what allows Joe to finally let go of the past, and realize that life is behind him now, and is what enables him to move forward and to take the money he saved for his family and finally be able to put it to use to by Empire for Sammy, and their return to the Golem in the comics, and being able to do things their own way now without needing Anapol, will mark a new adventure for them a new life in which they are all freed from the chains of their past.
Sammy feels like he can live as he truly is now, and is rekindling interest in his old passion, and Joe has a chance to start over with a new family, without feeling bond to his original family.