Religion, Sex and Vulgarity

It probably has more to do with males controlling women to guarantee the paternity of women. That's why virgin wives are so universally popular across many cultures. I think it's a little optimistic to concentrate on protecting women from the dangers of childbirth, especially when Christianity's views of marriage essentially prescribes them to be baby factories with little regard to their health.

I would venture a guess that religious restrictions of masturbation probably arise out of some primitive vain idolatry of semen.

The persecution of homosexual acts arise out of the usual desire to punish anything out of the normal.

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Originally Posted by OrphanPip

It probably has more to do with males controlling women to guarantee the paternity of women. That's why virgin wives are so universally popular across many cultures. I think it's a little optimistic to concentrate on protecting women from the dangers of childbirth, especially when Christianity's views of marriage essentially prescribes them to be baby factories with little regard to their health.

I would venture a guess that religious restrictions of masturbation probably arise out of some primitive vain idolatry of semen.

The persecution of homosexual acts arise out of the usual desire to punish anything out of the normal.

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You show how very little that you really know about true Christianity...

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Originally Posted by BienvenuJDC

You show how very little that you really know about true Christianity...

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How can anybody know the true Christianity with the 1001 varieties of it out there.

The other two parts weren't directed at Christianity specifically, but at religion in general.

1) I agree that there are many contradictory doctrines based on Christianity...the Roman Catholic Church in middle of it all, however, I can know true Christianity by the Scriptures where it is defined.

2) If you generalize the many different religions into one, then your statement is rather useless.

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Originally Posted by BienvenuJDC

2) If you generalize the many different religions into one, then your statement is rather useless.

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Well how else should I address generalized trends that cross between religions. Clearly it isn't a stretch to imply that multiple religions prescribe against certain behavior because there is a tendency in most humans, that transcends culture, to limit certain behavior. e.g. most religions have prohibitions against certain kinds of murder.

But a general statement concerning multiple religions may virtually include only a very small percentage of religions as a whole........therefore it would be a useless statement for the generalization of religions as a whole. Unless you were to include what religions actually believe such things and the weight of those religions in comparison to those who believe otherwise, your statement is nothing more than an idea floating around in your head.

Is Christianity in opposition to masturbation? Or is it just certain varieties? Does the Bible even mention it?

I imagine that you are also in a very biased position (as I am also since I am devoted to a particular religion) in respects to any religion that is in opposition to your lifestyle choices. Do you speak with a biased chip on your shoulder.....or do you offer accurate critique of religious doctrine?

The marriage as a means to assure paternity is a widely accepted theory in anthropology and evolutionary psychology. It is supported by the fact that matrilineal societies have no marriage structures, and have communal child-rearing. There seems to be something about male dominance of a society that pushes for the creation of social structures that ensure the official right of a male for exclusive sexual access to a woman. It is hardly my own invention.

This isn't to say that marriage today is the same as it was in primitive societies, but this origin of marriage is evident even in the language. After all the word husband itself implies control of the wife.

As to the masturbation idea, the notion that semen embodied some sort of mystical life-creating male energy that shouldn't be wasted was prevalent all through the ancient Greeks well into the European Enlightenment. This is why you get expressions like le petit mort in French to describe ejaculation.

I'm also not any more fond of religions that have nothing against homosexuality. I haven't run off to join the United Church of Canada despite their support of homosexuality, including performing marriages. I don't find the ancient Greeks any less ridiculous because of the permissiveness of homosexual acts in their society. I'm not going to get into the lifestyle "choice" issue.

Before you continue to generalize Christianity...you ought to learn what the Bible actually says about things. Psychology and anthropology has nothing to do with the "development" of Christianity...and (according to true Christianity) marriage did not originate from men, but from God...

I agree with Pip on every point. Way to bring anthropology in there.

And Bienvenu, anthropology is actually the study of marriage AND religion (which haven't/aren't always a part of the same thing, in some cultures marriage has nothing to do with religion). You can find anthropological evidence of marriage in every single culture way before you can find evidence for religion. It's a very old concept (older than god(s)) and it arose for exactly the same reasons that Pip has already explained.

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Originally Posted by Virgil

I was going to say something along those lines. Absolutely. Sex = children, and that causes social problems if the mating pair is not of age and capable of supporting them.

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We have a better understanding of the reproductive system now. We also have contraception, and protection from STDs. So why does the stigma remain?

Language has never been "just words". Since ancient times, there have been words that do things (performative language, as John Austin would say). Most rituals have a linguistic element that must be adhered to to evoke the desired result. For example: magic spells. Say the wrong words and the spell doesn't work.

From there, I think it's a short step to blaspheming or sinning through speech.

Gosh, this sounds exactly like a paper I wrote on Dante several years ago.

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Originally Posted by Wilde woman

Language has never been "just words". Since ancient times, there have been words that do things (performative language, as John Austin would say). Most rituals have a linguistic element that must be adhered to to evoke the desired result. For example: magic spells. Say the wrong words and the spell doesn't work.

From there, I think it's a short step to blaspheming or sinning through speech.

Gosh, this sounds exactly like a paper I wrote on Dante several years ago.

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Of course words implicate something really important under different circumstances. In Hinduism words are not sheer words; they are great symbols and have therefore great implications, meanings. There is the Sabda Brahma, that connotes the word is God and there was an word, the first word is Om and it is a sacred syllable and if man keeps on pronouncing this continually he will be liberated

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Originally Posted by dizzydoll

Hello my friend. Not if you care for the women, surely you wouldnt do that. You would try to understand what makes her tick and help her get over it. There are other issues surrounding sex that women have hang-ups about, like shyness. I am shy sexually. Men dont seem to share these problems, altho I have been told of a few but its usually fear of performance in their case. Either way, it wouldn't surprise me to find its all connected to religion in some way.

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i had an islamic work collegue who if he heard jokes about masterbation or sex would run off to the staff room to read his holy texts. he was a 40 something year old virgin who got drunk for the first time and failed to turn up for work for 3 days due to the hang over! of course there was the funny side but at the same time it was quite tragic that he could be affected so deeply by innane idle chatter. i thinkl sex is a natural element of being. i am shy sexualy and feel nauseous by the hollow eyed magazine staring deep into my soul and how excited and repulsed it makes me feel

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Originally Posted by jikan myshkin

i had an islamic work collegue who if he heard jokes about masterbation or sex would run off to the staff room to read his holy texts. he was a 40 something year old virgin who got drunk for the first time and failed to turn up for work for 3 days due to the hang over!

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Thats amazing, so it shows me this happens in other parts of the world too. Proves my point, there is some deep grained connection between sex and religion. Its quite bizarre actually. All this chit has been carried down for many many generations.

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Originally Posted by BienvenuJDC

Before you continue to generalize Christianity...you ought to learn what the Bible actually says about things. Psychology and anthropology has nothing to do with the "development" of Christianity...and (according to true Christianity) marriage did not originate from men, but from God...

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From what I believe, everyone we have slept with is considered to be our marriage partner according to the bible, is that true?

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Also in certain cultures, I believe, they will abort the girl child. Today we have designer babies where we can choose the sex of the child in advance. That might put an end to some abortions but I am not sure I feel comfortable with this type of genetic engineering. It still amazes me at how society, in this day and age, still values a boy than girl child. After all the girl will reproduce children, the boy can only seed the offspring and he is not even needed anymore due to semen-banks these days.

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Originally Posted by OrphanPip

It probably has more to do with males controlling women to guarantee the paternity of women. That's why virgin wives are so universally popular across many cultures. I think it's a little optimistic to concentrate on protecting women from the dangers of childbirth, especially when Christianity's views of marriage essentially prescribes them to be baby factories with little regard to their health.

I would venture a guess that religious restrictions of masturbation probably arise out of some primitive vain idolatry of semen.

The persecution of homosexual acts arise out of the usual desire to punish anything out of the normal.

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I think that's too simplistic Orphan. It's very complex, but what will a Father's primary attitude to his children be? I would suggest protection - from unsuitable males, from social exclusion diue to taboo breaking, from economic insecurity, from a too early pregnancy - and then add in all the cultural stuff and the Father's own attitudes. Definately complex, but primarily an attitude of protection. The majority of Fathers want their kids to be happy.

I've never heard of a primitive vain idolatry of semen - the nearest thing I can think of is the Hindu Lingam - which represents the creative force of the universe.

And you are a good dad Paul, I just sense it. :D