When Was Jesus Born

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12-07-2009, 02:36 AM
TurquoiseSunset

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarkBastable

Er, yeah - thanks. I understand the metaphorical Lamb that crops up throughout Christian thought. I was asking about the appearance of an actual lamb in the nativity as related in Luke and Matthew, on the sole basis of which the original poster suggested Jesus may not have been born at Christmas.

And the answer is, there is no such lamb in the scripture.

There's no reference to a lamb in the nativity, so Mark, you're right. The lambs and so on all crept in because the birth took place in a stable. So people assumed there'd be animals and lambs are cute I guess (as opposed to pigs or whatever), and maybe because it's a reference to God being a Lamb.

But then again, like everyone else has said, none of it really matters. It would be interesting to know the real date, but we can celebrate it on any day. It's like having your birthday on a Wednesday and celebrating it on the Friday, because it suits everyone better.
12-07-2009, 04:57 PM
ehs13

Another thing that I have learned before when I was growing up was Christ could have been born at any time but people were arriving to see Him at different times too. So it could possibly be that some were telling of his birth like it was the day before instead of months or even years after. An example would be the wise men. It wasn't possible for them to arrive that same night that Christ was born. They could have arrived anywhere from a week to a year later. But as it has been said, it shouldn't really matter when it happened just that it did and was a huge effect on everyone's lives and religions.
12-08-2009, 01:55 AM
MarkBastable

Quote:

Originally Posted by ehs13

But as it has been said, it shouldn't really matter when it happened just that it did and was a huge effect on everyone's lives and religions.

....might have...
12-08-2009, 03:44 AM
JuniperWoolf

Quote:

Originally Posted by papayahed

Some people place his birth in spring/early summer from clues in one of the gospels but christmas was chosen to coincide with pagan holidays to draw pagans into the religion.

I was told that the pagans who became christian (in Britain, brought by the Romans and then when they left christianity remained) just decided to make their solstice feast a christian feast... they didn't take religion as seriously as people do nowadays, there are some tablets that pray to both the christian god AND Dionysus (which is so weird that it made me tilt my head like a dog when I first heard about it). They'd pray to whoever if they thought it would get them what they wanted. They didn't really care about continuity, they had other things to worry about (like not freezing or starving to death) and the tradition just happened to remain. They needed a solstice party because they were cold and depressed during the darkest time of year, and a nice yule feast on the longest night filled a void. Drinking, fresh meat, sex sex sex... When religion started to be used as a tool of control, the powers that be decided to made christmas Jesus' birthday so that it wouldn't be just a drunken sin-filled party in the name of their lord.

(In mock-overzealous-priest voice) Christmas must be a time of humility during which you reflect on all that god has done for you and all that he can take away, and for you to feel charitable and give money to the church.

Fun-suckers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarkBastable

And the answer is, there is no such lamb in the scripture.

If you already knew the answer, then why did you ask? Out with it man, just tell us there's no lamb.
12-08-2009, 04:01 AM
The Atheist

Quote:

Originally Posted by JuniperWoolf

They'd pray to whoever if they thought it would get them what they wanted.

I can respect that one - at leats it's honest.
12-08-2009, 06:52 AM
MarkBastable

Quote:

Originally Posted by JuniperWoolf

If you already knew the answer, then why did you ask?

Rhetorical device.
12-08-2009, 09:00 AM
papayahed

Quote:

Originally Posted by JuniperWoolf

I was told that the pagans who became christian (in Britain, brought by the Romans and then when they left christianity remained) just decided to make their solstice feast a christian feast... they didn't take religion as seriously as people do nowadays, there are some tablets that pray to both the christian god AND Dionysus (which is so weird that it made me tilt my head like a dog when I first heard about it). They'd pray to whoever if they thought it would get them what they wanted. They didn't really care about continuity, they had other things to worry about (like not freezing or starving to death) and the tradition just happened to remain. They needed a solstice party because they were cold and depressed during the darkest time of year, and a nice yule feast on the longest night filled a void. Drinking, fresh meat, sex sex sex... When religion started to be used as a tool of control, the powers that be decided to made christmas Jesus' birthday so that it wouldn't be just a drunken sin-filled party in the name of their lord.

(In mock-overzealous-priest voice) Christmas must be a time of humility during which you reflect on all that god has done for you and all that he can take away, and for you to feel charitable and give money to the church.

Fun-suckers.

It's fascinating to look at the origins of some religious holidays don't get me started on Easter!!
12-09-2009, 03:53 PM
ehs13

oh ya sorry. good point.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarkBastable

....might have...

oh ya sorry. right, might have.
01-06-2010, 10:01 PM
poetryidiot123

Actually, I think you are right; I don't believe that Jesus was born in the winter. Muslims believe that Jesus was born during the summer time. There is no proof that he was born in cold seasons.
02-11-2010, 05:47 AM
Boo Radley

I have read 2 AD in "God is Not Great" (from memory). It's hard to say really with the conflicting "evidence" of the Gospels. Herod died in 4 BC.
05-26-2010, 12:48 AM
chum

Jesus was born in September. When Mary went to see her cousin Elizabeth right after the Immaculate Conception, Elizabeth's unborn son, John the Baptist, who was "6 months in the womb" lept for joy! John the Baptist was conceived during the "Feast of Tabernacles" or something like that...do the research...
05-27-2010, 02:27 AM
Jesterhead

He could not have been called Jesus. The name Jesus originates from Greece, and the letter J was not used until the 15th century.
05-27-2010, 09:16 PM
chum

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jesterhead

He could not have been called Jesus. The name Jesus originates from Greece, and the letter J was not used until the 15th century.

Right...his name in Hebrew is Yeshua...which is also Joshua's Hebrew name...
05-27-2010, 09:35 PM
BienvenuJDC

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jesterhead

He could not have been called Jesus. The name Jesus originates from Greece, and the letter J was not used until the 15th century.

The Greek New Testament says 'Isous' which is the best transliteration for what would later be translated, Jesus.
05-28-2010, 01:45 AM
Vautrin

December 25 (give or take 3-6 days) was originally known as Saturnalia in Rome, starting in the 3rd Century B.C.E.

The birth of Jesus of Nazareth was not celebrated by the first Christian communities during the first few centuries after his death. They were more focused on his death and resurrection. (Note: Not all Christian communities believed in the resurrection by the way)

Constantine makes Christianity the state religion of Rome.

Christmas then becomes an important holiday.

Power + Religion = Official Holidays.

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