Teenage Violence

I think the extreme cases of teenage violence is often coupled with mental illness; However, I think that often, parents are putting too much responsibility on thier childrens shoulders. I saw a cute japanese cartoon where the American parents said, "Son, we are getting older; so we need you to act older; Here is a list of things you are now in charge of".
When I was young, we were just getting advanced studies in school. My mother was a housewife and took care of household chores and siblings. I didn't have a job until I graduated. Bullying at school was dealt with very harshly and teachers walked the halls; we didn't see children being stabbed to death while 50 teenagers texted the pictures to friends.

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Originally Posted by soundofmusic

I think the extreme cases of teenage violence is often coupled with mental illness;

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Minority only would be my guess.

I live nice & close to the heart of most of the violence committed in NZ and I'd estimate that 75%+ of the murders of teenagers are because of drugs.

Assaults; mostly little dicks with more testosterone than brains, and when you've been brought up in houses where your old man biffs your mother around every week or so, it's easy to fall into the trap.

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Originally Posted by soundofmusic

However, I think that often, parents are putting too much responsibility on thier childrens shoulders. I saw a cute japanese cartoon where the American parents said, "Son, we are getting older; so we need you to act older; Here is a list of things you are now in charge of".

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I'm firmly in the "complete lack of parenting skills in society" camp.

Just think about it.

We teach our kids maths, languages, history, arts and science; we even teach them how babies are made, but do we teach them about bringing up babies? Parents certainly don't actively teach kids how to bring up their kids, so the kids learn by osmosis. When the role model is sour, the kids will be for sure.

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Originally Posted by soundofmusic

When I was young, we were just getting advanced studies in school. My mother was a housewife and took care of household chores and siblings. I didn't have a job until I graduated. Bullying at school was dealt with very harshly and teachers walked the halls; we didn't see children being stabbed to death while 50 teenagers texted the pictures to friends.

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Ya sentimental old thing!

:D

It's tricky comparing eras. I'm kind of multi-generational now. There's when I was a kid, there's when my eldest boy was a kid - 20 years ago, and now my kids are growing up in a different world again. When my first was born, the internet didn't exist, people didn't fly planes into buildings and my mobile phone was the size & weight of a car battery.

The internet and cellphones have introduced a new, and highly sinister, component in the kids claiming heirarchal status war, but I'm not sure the violence itself is any different from 40-50 years ago*.

Yes, there were a hell of a lot more rules, and a lot more people who would grab you by the shoulder if you got out of line, but did it make us any better? Given that you, me and our generation, are completely responsible for the world we're inhabiting, I must admit to being a bit embarrassed. I think we could have done a whole lot better.

;)

*Funny coincidence, I was just talking about this yesterday. When I was 17, I was attacked for walking down the wrong street and had the almighty crap kicked out of me. I would have been that bloke on the front page of the paper nowadays, but it made no ripples and nobody saw it as that peculiar that a young bloke walking down the street had his face broken by a bunch of thugs.

Nowadays, it just gives me a good excuse for looking like this!

:D

I shudder at seeing how kids are brought up without boundaries. I almost feel guilty at times, expecting my kids to be able to behave and live within set guidelines, being a kid-Nazi compared to the laissez-faire attitude of just about every other parent.

Better to be a kid-nazi than to end up with a nazi kid. I agree with you wholeheartedly. There's time for laissez faire when they're old enough to handle it.

Closely related to teenage violence is bullying - at home, at school, in the local neighbourhood, in the workplace, in politics and in the mass media. I am particularly aware of bullying by students and teachers at school, females included, and the seemly powerlessness of principals and education authorities to act effectively against it, despite the fine rhetoric.

Humanity is reluctant to act against a trait that has been the mainstay of many a revered manager, sportsman, policeman, soldier, jailer and politician. Violence is a logical extension of bullying, and the move in recent decades towards individualism at the expense of community has hardly helped.

With bullying always on a pedestal, what a role model for our children and teenagers!

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Originally Posted by Gladys

Closely related to teenage violence is bullying - at home, at school, in the local neighbourhood, in the workplace, in politics and in the mass media. I am particularly aware of bullying by students and teachers at school, females included, and the seemly powerlessness of principals and education authorities to act effectively against it, despite the fine rhetoric.

Humanity is reluctant to act against a trait that has been the mainstay of many a revered manager, sportsman, policeman, soldier, jailer and politician. Violence is a logical extension of bullying, and the move in recent decades towards individualism at the expense of community has hardly helped.

With bullying always on a pedestal, what a role model for our children and teenagers!

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I agree with your views on bullying, but do you need to define it a bit before lumping together your list of jobs associated with it? Some might think that the jobs you list require forceful personalities, but that might not entail bullying. Take a Jailer for example. That would have to be someone who is able to withstand a prisoner who - given the chance - could well bully them. Does that necessarily lead to bullying back, or are you thinking of specific examples?

The one reason why teenage violence is on the increase globally is today people have no values in life. I have read something in the Brothers Karamazov in which it is elaborated that if people do not beleive in God or immortality everything becomes a law and man becomes capable of doing anything. The underlying philosophy there is people are afraid to commit sins because they are religiously minded and they feel what they do will exert impacts and at the same time sinners will be punished.

Today youngsters are getting astray and the main reason is they have lost their age-old values and anything is not amoral from their perspectives. If they are atheists everything is possible and that is why today crimes are increasing.

That is why we must teach children what their values are in life. Of course moral education may help them tremendously but the root of moral education is religion.

Religions breed fundamentalism and today there are bigots, diehards and most of them are kind of affiliated with some religions. But religions should not be blamed for what happen. Of course one should sieve thru them. Religions need to be reformed. Like laws. laws are at times bad and that i why laws are amended, revised and modified to make it suitable with change in values.

What will happen if we lose morality? Nothing will happen if people lose religions but if they lose moral values the world will be a very dangerous place to live in.

Religions must be reformed and new values should be inculcated in them and if teenagers are guided on moral things they will be less likely to commit crimes.

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Originally Posted by Paulclem

Some might think that the jobs you list require forceful personalities, but that might not entail bullying.

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Of course, assertiveness is possible without a hint of bullying or violence. Perhaps a majority rarely if ever bullies: that leaves a huge remnant that do.

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Originally Posted by blazeofglory

I have read something in the Brothers Karamazov in which it is elaborated that if people do not believe in God or immortality everything becomes a law and man becomes capable of doing anything.

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That such a man 'becomes capable of doing anything' isn't necessarily a bad thing because such a man assumes, by necessity, with eyes open, absolute responsibility for his own actions.

I definately think there's scope in those jobs you do mention for bullying, though it can occur in the most inconspicuous.

I also think males can easily be swayed into bullying, as there is a strong physical element to some male relations - pecking order and all that. Have you ever observed all males together in a compeitive arena - be it work or play? The results can be most disturbing.

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Originally Posted by The Atheist

I live nice & close to the heart of most of the violence committed in NZ and I'd estimate that 75%+ of the murders of teenagers are because of drugs.

Assaults; mostly little dicks with more testosterone than brains, and when you've been brought up in houses where your old man biffs your mother around every week or so, it's easy to fall into the trap.

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:lol: Well said.

Now even in the worst of areas, the percentage of punks who who take it to a level of violence is smaller than those that don't. What causes some kids to go beyond where others won't? What causes some to cross a boundary of unacceptable behavior? There are probably a complex swirl of reasons, but I suspect that drugs are a correlating factor.

So why to people feel the need to turn to drugs and what can be done about it?

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Originally Posted by Neely

So why to people feel the need to turn to drugs and what can be done about it?

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Part of it is glamorization. Part of it is it's a thrill. Part of it is a rite of initiation within a sub culture.

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Originally Posted by Neely

So why to people feel the need to turn to drugs and what can be done about it?

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Not people. Some. When I was young, I would watch other kids, also younger kids smoke regular cigs or the harder drugs. I never did it because I never saw the point of doing; for the same reason I don't drink. I might even enjoy it, I can't tell. I've never touched booze. What I do know is that drugs, smokes and drinks cost money and I am very much in love with my money.

My uncle got addicted to drugs some 12 years ago. Why he did it? Bad company. Thugs and bad boys will always get you in trouble. I should know. Most of my friends are bad boys.

I saw many friends of mine go from good guys to thugs(drug dealers) or thieves. I was blessed with an unmoved conscience. I dealt and befriended some of the most dangerous and unstable members of society and I was never negatively influenced. What can I say? I don't weight much but I have my feet firmly grounded.

Well, concerning the topic. I haven't read all of the pages of this thread but, I don't think anyone has mentioned the family status of the doers of teenager violence.

Children from divorced families. Basically, most relationships end, a marriage being a relationship(albeit legally controlled by the govt.) will end, suffice to say the mother of the child will more likely than less get the child which means, the father will not have a steady presence on the child's life.

The fact that many, many mothers pick up their sons and move to other states/countries without telling the father of the child where they are going to, kinda leaves the child to grow angry.

There are several studies that show that most of the people in jail are from broken/divorced homes, or without a steady presence from a father figure.

Our society is dying. The birth rates are lowering and lowering with the passing of each year. With that, so does marriage follow the same path. The reality of men having no benefits when it comes to marriage and the inevitable divorce(he has to pay alimony, looses the child and the house) means more and more young(or older men) are opting out from the reproductive game.

Sadly, this implies the loss of a potential father figure for many, many kids as women are more openly approaching sperm banks or anonymous donors(one night stands) or worse, many are getting pregnant on purpose but the man, knowing of the deception doesn't even consider dating/marrying her.

I can heart that. It's sad but I see teen violence increasing the more. Fortunately for me, I was raised by an intact family which impaired in me principles, morals and ethics. That male presence in my life(my father) taught me how to be strong and adverse to risk while my mother, she taught me never to get married :blush:.

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Originally Posted by Neely

So why to people feel the need to turn to drugs and what can be done about it?

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Why do people drink?

Many substances affect our brains in ways we find enjoyable. Bit like sex, really. 99.99r% of animals that have ever lived have indulged in sex for no other reason than procreation. We do it because we like it, we drink because we like it and we jump off high buildings because we like it.

The only thing you could do about it is re-engineer human DNA to preclude us from taking pleasure. Whether a rush is natural, as in a base-jumper, or manufactured, as in someone smoking crystal meth, we look for it in search of pleasure.

I concede that people drink for pleasure certainly, but do people smoke crystal meth for pleasure or as a means of escape? That is not to say that people don't drink to escape, of course they do, but I would argue more people turn to hard drugs as a "way out" - as a way out of a society that they don't feel they have a stake in perhaps?

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Originally Posted by Neely

I concede that people drink for pleasure certainly, but do people smoke crystal meth for pleasure or as a means of escape? That is not to say that people don't drink to escape, of course they do, but I would argue more people turn to hard drugs as a "way out" - as a way out of a society that they don't feel they have a stake in perhaps?

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People take drugs for pleasure in the same way as they drink. The attraction is the illegality, and it also inculcates a fellow feeling between the takers initially. Imagine the pride of doing something you assume hardly anyone else knows about or can enjoy. This is the very Devil in my view. It makes the slide into hard drugs easier. "If cannabis isn't so bad, perhaps everything I've heard about coke/ heroin is wrong..." may be the kind of thought process, along with an "I can take it" feeling.

The other thing of course is that there is an implied acceptance and promotion of drugs in society. The law says one thing, whilst celebrities, films stars, rock Gods etc clearly flout the whole thing, as does the local dealer. It is implicit in the term rock star lifestyle.