The Pros and Cons of Celibacy

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Originally Posted by *Classic*Charm*

Rape and molestation are not nature. The inference then is that ignoring or suppressing one's sexual tendencies is to create more rape and molestation.

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How do you come to that conclusion? Bonobo chimpanzees are well known to molest their children, and rape is hardly a rare occurrence amongst animals. When you can't compete against the other males for the female, the evolutionarily advantageous course is to sneak in and ravage the female.

I don't think we should be determining the worth of any action through its "naturalness" or "unnaturalness."

I think we may be discussing two different concepts of Rape and Child Molestation:
Serial Rape and Serial Child Molestation: I think everyone agrees it is an aberration of human behavior.
There is also the Rape and Child molestation of children through child marriage; this is common practice in other countries. In 2006, Britain set up a unit to assist children as young as 13, who were being forced into marriage; in 2008 they received 5000 calls for assistance.

And what of animals. It is true, Now it is quite common to see hordes of ferrell males chasing one female; but was that always the case. At one time, didn't the strongest control his pack, deprive the weaker males of food and territory until they starved to death?

More and more studies are showing that decreased sexual activity yields lower testosterone levels. Having a normal amount of testosterone is beneficial to your health as you're less likely to be afflicted with cardiovascular disease, Alzheimer's, and depression. Not only does it prevent physical and mental ailments but it helps develop muscle mass and incites risky behaviour. My advice is to continue thinking dirty thoughts to keep those hormone levels normal... for the sake of your well-being.

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Originally Posted by OrphanPip

How do you come to that conclusion? Bonobo chimpanzees are well known to molest their children, and rape is hardly a rare occurrence amongst animals. When you can't compete against the other males for the female, the evolutionarily advantageous course is to sneak in and ravage the female.

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Very fair point. I didn't consider that. I think the big difference in this situation though is the idea of sex for pleasure vs. sex for reproductive purposes. This obviously doesn't encompass your example of the molestation in chimps, but how about "rape" in animals? To do so is definitely an instinct, but I'm guessing most people don't commit rape following a reproductive instinct.

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I don't think we should be determining the worth of any action through its "naturalness" or "unnaturalness."

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I agree with you. I was just trying to take Blaze's argument somewhere.

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Originally Posted by soundofmusic

Yes, I suppose the idea is to concentrate on other things instead of sexual gratification; but as Blaze mentioned before, it just pops its annoying little head up in dreams...
I have never found masturbation, with or without a lover, as emotionally gratifying as intercourse. I have also noticed that when one becomes accustomed to manual stimulation; there is some difficulty with premature ejaculation or delayed ejaculation.
What are your thoughts?

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How does that affect its inclusion/ exclusion from a celibate lifestyle?

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Originally Posted by Dirtbag

More and more studies are showing that decreased sexual activity yields lower testosterone levels. Having a normal amount of testosterone is beneficial to your health as you're less likely to be afflicted with cardiovascular disease, Alzheimer's, and depression. Not only does it prevent physical and mental ailments but it helps develop muscle mass and incites risky behaviour. My advice is to continue thinking dirty thoughts to keep those hormone levels normal... for the sake of your well-being.

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:lol: Risky behavior :goof: Yes, the last time I started working out I started listening to Eminem and that song, "Before he cheats", running red lights, and always telling people the truth!:p

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Originally Posted by *Classic*Charm*

How does that affect its inclusion/ exclusion from a celibate lifestyle?

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I recently read an article on world religion that, sort of , put abstinence and Celibacy on a scale. Celibacy was considered something that is avoiding all forms of sexual behavior for some greater purpose. Abstinence was either chosen or not; and therefore could be temporary, and one could choose how much he/she abstained.

When in a relationship, I have tried to exclude sexual gratification measures with my partner that cause negative side effects like premature ejaculation or delayed ejaculation. Unfortunately, the sexual behaviors that cause difficulty are usually their favorites...And, of course, we aim to please our partner.
Since I've been a widow, I have chosen to remain celibate. I am not one for partial gratification: I eat the most fattening ice cream, butter, drink the best liquors and coffee and if I am to have sex, it will be with a man, not a vibrator or my right hand. It's been so long now, I almost forget that men are men when I'm talking to them; but I have not become at all spiritual or intellectual.:(

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Originally Posted by soundofmusic

I recently read an article on world religion that, sort of , put abstinence and Celibacy on a scale. Celibacy was considered something that is avoiding all forms of sexual behavior for some greater purpose. Abstinence was either chosen or not; and therefore could be temporary, and one could choose how much he/she abstained.

When in a relationship, I have tried to exclude sexual gratification measures with my partner that cause negative side effects like premature ejaculation or delayed ejaculation. Unfortunately, the sexual behaviors that cause difficulty are usually their favorites...And, of course, we aim to please our partner.
Since I've been a widow, I have chosen to remain celibate. I am not one for partial gratification: I eat the most fattening ice cream, butter, drink the best liquors and coffee and if I am to have sex, it will be with a man, not a vibrator or my right hand. It's been so long now, I almost forget that men are men when I'm talking to them; but I have not become at all spiritual or intellectual.:(

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I see. I understand what you mean about "partial pleasures", but I still don't understand why one would choose to be celibate unless recovering from some sort of traumatic experience. I don't see any sort of health benefit, nor to I buy it as the suggested method of "maintaining balance".

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Originally Posted by *Classic*Charm*

I see. I understand what you mean about "partial pleasures", but I still don't understand why one would choose to be celibate unless recovering from some sort of traumatic experience. I don't see any sort of health benefit, nor to I buy it as the suggested method of "maintaining balance".

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You're very insightful, Classic Charm. Many people, myself included, take up celibacy as a way to avoid reliving trauma or tragedy. Others, may take it up as a way to avoid the secondary responsibility that seems to come with intimacy. Love comes with a hefty pricetag: a mortgage, years of child-rearing, in-laws, sickness and eventually death.

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Originally Posted by soundofmusic

You're very insightful, Classic Charm. Many people, myself included, take up celibacy as a way to avoid reliving trauma or tragedy. Others, may take it up as a way to avoid the secondary responsibility that seems to come with intimacy. Love comes with a hefty pricetag: a mortgage, years of child-rearing, in-laws, sickness and eventually death.

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Thank you, and I'm sorry to hear that.

I suppose the next question comes from a different standpoint. I agree with you that an individual may become celibate as a means of avoiding the secondary responsibility (I like that term, btw) associated with sex. I think it far more likely that people choose promiscuous sex as a means of avoiding responsibility than celibacy, but that's another topic altogether.

So what of couples who maintain a monogamous, loving relationship but who do not, or extremely rarely, have sex. For example, I know a couple who have been together for three years (which is a decent amount of time when you're my age :rolleyes:), who have has sex fewer times than you can count on one hand. It simply doesn't seem to be an important part of their relationship. That is a form of abstinence, no? I can think of no reason why two young people who are in love would not have the desire to be intimate.

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Originally Posted by *Classic*Charm*

So what of couples who maintain a monogamous, loving relationship but who do not, or extremely rarely, have sex. For example, I know a couple who have been together for three years (which is a decent amount of time when you're my age :rolleyes:), who have has sex fewer times than you can count on one hand. It simply doesn't seem to be an important part of their relationship.

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I think that, by definition, 'abstinence' involves a deliberate and active resolution to avoid or refuse something. It's the complement of 'indulgence'.

So if it's not something you particularly want to do, not doing it isn't really abstinence (though it might, almost accidentally, be celibacy).

Yes, this is semantic nit-picking. I'm all for semantics.

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Originally Posted by *Classic*Charm*

So what of couples who maintain a monogamous, loving relationship but who do not, or extremely rarely, have sex. For example, I know a couple who have been together for three years (which is a decent amount of time when you're my age :rolleyes:), who have has sex fewer times than you can count on one hand. It simply doesn't seem to be an important part of their relationship. That is a form of abstinence, no? I can think of no reason why two young people who are in love would not have the desire to be intimate.

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Thank you, Classic Charm,
Did you know the individuals of the couple before they were together? Were they sexually active with others? Sometimes people who are very good friends become a couple because they share so many things in common, they like the companionship; but are not sexually intimate. Some people really have very little desire to have sex. I became aquainted with a couple, who claimed they were not a couple (one had HIV); but always disappeared together when I came to their home...I began to think I was the impetus for their intimacy.

It's all rather difficult, I married my best friend when I was 26 (we were friends since I was 14); at the time, it was a matter of financial need, we enjoyed each others company (we would talk on the phone sometimes for 4 hours) and our former mates had always assumed we were sexually intimate (we were not). I found that with marriage, the whole balance of the relationship went topsy-turvy. It never occured to me that someone I loved and found desirable could be such a turn-off in bed. So there it was, we loved each other dearly and were not in the least attracted to each other in the bedroom. We were jealous when one would find someone they were attracted to...He once cut the left half of 12 of my wigs because I flirted with my 18 year old lawn boy. Sometimes, we met other people and made an attempt to have a sexual relationship; but those people wanted and deserved someone who could give themselves fully...We were somehow attached, unable to move until his death.

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Originally Posted by MarkBastable

I think that, by definition, 'abstinence' involves a deliberate and active resolution to avoid or refuse something. It's the complement of 'indulgence'.

So if it's not something you particularly want to do, not doing it isn't really abstinence (though it might, almost accidentally, be celibacy).

Yes, this is semantic nit-picking. I'm all for semantics.

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That is a wonderful point, Mark; and very intelligently worded!

:p A short period of celibacy can be beneficial because when you finally have sex again you realise how crazy and utterly pointless your abstinence was - thus focusing the mind on making sure you indulge as often as is humanly possible from then on. Lack of opportunity is the only sane excuse for abstinence and probably the main reason people claim to be celibate for whatever reason. I am sure this view on celibacy only heightens the older and closer you come to death. I believe that if, by some quirk of nature, humans became more physically able and attractive the older they became, then all elderly people would be at it like rabbits all day long! ;)

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Originally Posted by Michael T

I believe that if, by some quirk of nature, humans became more physically able and attractive the older they became, then all elderly people would be at it like rabbits all day long! ;)

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Good point, Michael T. and oh, if it were only possible! I have a few friends who, in their late 50's are trying to "make up for lost time". They've suddenly become very temperamental and limp a good deal of the time.

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Originally Posted by Michael T

:p A short period of celibacy can be beneficial because when you finally have sex again you realise how crazy and utterly pointless your abstinence was - thus focusing the mind on making sure you indulge as often as is humanly possible from then on. Lack of opportunity is the only sane excuse for abstinence and probably the main reason people claim to be celibate for whatever reason.

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Is it safe to assume that this is the advice you give to your own children?

:p

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Originally Posted by Scheherazade

Is it safe to assume that this is the advice you give to your own children?

:p

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It's certainly the advice I give to my parents.

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Originally Posted by Scheherazade

Is it safe to assume that this is the advice you give to your own children?

:p

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:lol: Excellent point, Scher, our children do seem to hear everything we say and everything we don't; even though they seem to be "hearing impaired" in their teens. I've noticed, over the years, that allowing the children to witness my "achilles heel"; they have become an extremely "moral lot", though one wouldn't know it by listening to their conversation:eek:

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Originally Posted by MarkBastable

It's certainly the advice I give to my parents.

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:cool: I'll bet you're your parents favorite child; You'd be mine:wave:
Yes, my friends all tell me that increased sexual activity is great for the over 50's set; if they didn't look so arthritic, and limp all the time; I might take their advice. I can't argue because they blast their heavy metal and the beatles in my ear:smash: