Best translation of IN SEARCH OF LOST TIME?

Hi all ...

I don't mean to hijack the thread, but since you are all discussing Proust, perhaps someone could help me locate the 6 volume modern library edition in hardcover. I have found volumes 1,2,3,5, and 6 but 4 is just impossible to find. I did locate a copy on a german website for 30 euros after shipping but for some reason my credit card is not working there - I am in Canada (add to the risk I am running by translating pages of the website using google translator). If any of you could help me find a 'new hardcover' of Sodom and Gomorrah, I'd be very thankful. ISBN: 0679600299

Thanks in advance and sorry for derailing the thread.

Cheers.

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Originally Posted by mal4mac

I agree with you about de Botton. I read his "Proust" guide several years ago and thought it excellent. I'll certainly re-read it before attempting Proust again. Roger Shattuck's “Proust’s Way“ also gets good ratings as a guide.

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I haven't actually read Shattuck but I will in the future (when I have time).

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Originally Posted by mal4mac

I stand by not dismissing older translators just because there have been some new translators. If they are great translators, then great writers will have pointed this out.

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It's not that I dismiss older translators completely, I have read Moncrieff & enjoyed his translation in the main. I think his re-naming À la recherche du temps perdu as 'Remembrance of Things Past' (from Shakespeare's sonnet 30) is part of what I was trying to say about semiotic interpretation.

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Originally Posted by mal4mac

For instance, D.H. Lawrence, Hemingway, and Virginia Woolf all highly rated Garnett's translations.

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I'm sure they did. Garnett was probably the only translation they were familiar with. I have a lot of admiration for Garnett as she bought Dostoyevsky inter alia to the attention of the English speaking world. Time moves on however. The English she spoke & wrote in has changed. She wrote in a particular style that is really antiquated now. As long as the reader realises this it shouldn't be a problem.

I have read equally bad 'older' translations, such as Eva M. Martin's translation of Dostoyevsky's The Idiot. I am sure her Russian is far better than mine ever will be but the Magarshack translation is far superior.

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Originally Posted by mal4mac

Tolstoy himself praised Maudes' translations to the heights, saying no other translation of his work would ever be needed.

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Tolstoy said a lot of things. A lot of it nonsense. You should read his essays on art & religion. He was a brilliant storyteller & writer but very possibly bat****-crackers about a lot of things! It wouldn't surprise me that he said that about the Maude translation. You should read Henri Troyat's superb biography 'Tolstoy' one of the days (if you haven't already).

Dostoyevsky wouldn't give Tolstoy the time of day & they never met. Tolstoy spent a lot of his early years offering Turgenev out for duels. Which is odd considering that if it wasn't for the efforts & support of Turgenev Tolstoy may not have become a writer in the first place.

Much as I very much admire Tolstoy, & he was a brilliant writer, I find many of his personal opinions & his odd beliefs & personal philosophy difficult to take seriously.

Maybe he should have read the Rosemary Edmonds translation of War & Peace.

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Originally Posted by mal4mac

Lydia Davis' translation of the first book of Proust has received some bad press from André Aciman:

http://www.nybooks.com/authors/568

"Ms. Davis can certainly translate a sentence by Proust; but she still doesn't get how it works. She tells us that "it is not difficult for an experienced writer to compose a cadenced sentence." Well, seeing she claims she knows how to, why didn't she? "

"The six volumes of the new Viking Penguin translation of Proust ... punctilious and ultimately priggish commitment to word-for-word accuracy turns out not only to be a cunning way of attracting attention and of publicizing a radically new translation out to make sweeping changes, but it is, all said and done, thoroughly deceptive. Accuracy... is proclaimed, not practiced, promised, not delivered."

Has anyone read Aciman's "The Proust Project"? It has had some good reviews.

There's a superb review by Epstein here:

http://web.archive.org/web/200103022...t00/proust.htm

Which gives an account of why he jumped ship in the third volume :

"...it was not until I came to the middle of the seemingly interminable third volume, The Guermantes Way, that I suffered the doldrums and jumped ship. Proust and I parted company for a few years. That book largely concerns Marcel’s crush on the preposterously aristocratic Duchesse de Guermantes, and our young hero’s ascent into the lofty society of the Faubourg St. Germain; one of its major themes is snobbery. Marcel is not so much in love with this social paragon as he wants to be the Duchesse de Guermantes. Marcel longs to be accepted into the world of snobs, and he is an insufferable snob himself. Nothing could have been of less interest to me... so I stopped reading the novel."

This is exactly the reason I jumped ship! Note I was reading the old Moncrieff edition. Epstein goes on to say that he became becalmed in the same place on his second attempt! But switching to the updated Kilmartin/Enright edition saved him - and he finished the complete work. This has convinced me to use the K/E edition.

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Remember, opinions are a lot like that part of our anatomy we often use to sit on. Everyone has one!

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Originally Posted by The Rainmaker

Hi all ...

I don't mean to hijack the thread, but since you are all discussing Proust, perhaps someone could help me locate the 6 volume modern library edition in hardcover. I have found volumes 1,2,3,5, and 6 but 4 is just impossible to find. I did locate a copy on a german website for 30 euros after shipping but for some reason my credit card is not working there - I am in Canada (add to the risk I am running by translating pages of the website using google translator). If any of you could help me find a 'new hardcover' of Sodom and Gomorrah, I'd be very thankful. ISBN: 0679600299

Thanks in advance and sorry for derailing the thread.

Cheers.

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How about Amazon.com?

Sorry, that's the paperback I think.

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Originally Posted by Red-Headed

How about Amazon.com?

Sorry, that's the paperback I think.

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It's also *not* the modern library edition.

Modern library is the Moncrieff edition updated by Kilmartin, and then updated again by Enright. I find that juggling the most obvious search terms eventually gets me there on this kind of book search. For instance, on Amazon.com, the following gets me there:

"modern library proust volume 4 Sodom"

I'm quite tempted to get this edition myself, does it have any advantages over the everyman hardback edition? (Everyman is less expensive...)

Are the Everyman and Modern Library editions *exactly* the same edition. Amazon don't mention Enright in the Everyman details so I'm a bit worried that it's not the same edition (other sites *do* associate Enright with Everyman. So I'm confused...)

Do modern library or everyman (or anyone else!) provide good notes?

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Originally Posted by mal4mac

It's also *not* the modern library edition.

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OK, my bad. I blame Dogpile... LOL

as far as i know, everyman's edition is also enright revised, since it was also published quite recently (early 2000?). it is also cheaper because its in 4 volumes instead of the more common 6. same content still.

i just might purchase the 6 paperbacks and then find an affordable bookbinder. feel free to recommend.

oh btw, if i may contribute to the present discussion, for the russian classics, i think pevear and volokhonsky translations have settled it for me. and i also believe that every generation needs its own translations and C. Garnett is most probably not the voice for this generation.

thanks!

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Originally Posted by The Rainmaker

oh btw, if i may contribute to the present discussion, for the russian classics, i think pevear and volokhonsky translations have settled it for me. and i also believe that every generation needs its own translations and C. Garnett is most probably not the voice for this generation.

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Those translations are not well known in the United Kingdom. They are more contemporary than Garnett that's for sure. I think Garnett will always be admired for what she brought to the English speaking world. Having said that the Flying Boat was a bloody good idea for its time! I prefer the Airbus A380.

Talking of hardback copies of Proust, I have just discovered an old hardback copy of 'Swann's Way' that I bought many years ago in a secondhand bookshop. It was printed in 1929 by Chatto & Windus (Phoenix Library). It's a pity that it was the only one in the shop. I would have liked more of the volumes. It introduced me to Proust all of those years ago, so I suppose it had its use.

I also found a very old 2-volume Proust edition at a used bookstore but realized it'd be a pain to read from it. Didn't go for it and instead here I am running around with $150 in my hand unable to find a decent set of Proust. He better be worth the trouble.

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Originally Posted by The Rainmaker

I also found a very old 2-volume Proust edition at a used bookstore but realized it'd be a pain to read from it. Didn't go for it and instead here I am running around with $150 in my hand unable to find a decent set of Proust. He better be worth the trouble.

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How do you define decent?

Moncrieff's translation has always had the reputation of being a very decent translation, and the updates also have had good reviews. Read the Epstein review mentioned earlier. His French is good enough to read Proust in the original, and he has taken a course where he read part of Proust in the original, but he is so happy with the M/K/E translation that he doesn't feel that he needs to make the extra effort involved to read the whole work in French. Sounds decent to me! Even the competition, the penguin translators, say it is decent.

Or is it the actual physical book you are concerned with? The Everyman and Modern library hardback editions are, in my opinion, very decent hardback publishers (and either, especially Everyman, will leave you change from $150).

On reputation alone he should be worth the trouble - maximal attitudinal pleasure is to be expected :)

I've never read Proust, but I have to disagree with this statement:

"On reputation alone he should be worth the trouble - maximal attitudinal pleasure is to be expected"

I don't disagree with the smile, as smiles are always agreeable, but no one should approach a text with the notion that it will be good and/or useful solely because of the writer's reputation.

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Originally Posted by The Rainmaker

He better be worth the trouble.

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He's not the most dynamically exciting of authors, but I think it is his observations of the minutiae of everyday life that is what intrigues people. When I first read Proust I wondered where all the 'philosophy' was. Then I realised that it his observations of life & humanity that is what appeals to the reader, & is a philosophy of sorts all on its own. Proust was definitely sui generis in my opinion.

here I am running around with $150 in my hand unable to find a decent set of Proust.

I believe that I paid about $20 or $30 for my hard-bound Everyman's Library Edition at a used books store. This entire 4 volume no longer appears to be in print (at least it doesn't show up on Amazon or it has been reduced to a 3 volume set) but it appears essentially the same as that published by the Modern Library as a 6 volume boxed paperback set (both utilize the twice edited Enright/Kilmartin/Moncrieff translation) excepting that the Everyman includes the Harold Bloom introduction. Any of these editions can be had for well less than $150... including the new Penguin translations.

For my money, this twice edited Moncrieff edition is a more than competent translation. Admittedly, I have not read the new Penguin translations but I will suggest that I have several reservations on that account. First, Penguin has not been notoriously good with regard to its choice of translations in the past (although they have shown improvements). They were often the only choice. I will also note that I am somewhat wary of a translation of Proust by committee. Each volume of the new Penguin translations is by a different translator. Inherently this is going to result in a loss of stylistic continuity.

I would also suggest that I don't buy the notion that the recent translation is always the best. The most recent translation simply offers the best interpretation of a writer's work in line with the elements and aspects that are important to the time in which it was produced. In other words, a Victorian translation of Baudelaire is not inherently inferior to an early Modernist translation of Baudelaire or a contemporary translation of the same. They will each have certain stylistic biases. For my money, the best translation of Dante's La Vita Nuova was that done by the poet Dante Rossetti, while Longfellow's translation of the Comedia still stands as one of the best. Sir John Harrington's translation of Orlando Furioso may not follow the most rigorous academic standards... but as a near contemporary version by a poet with a real mastery of the English language it offers perhpas the best interpretation of Ariosto's work. If I return to Baudelaire by way of example I might note that some of the best translations of his work were produced by F.P. Sturm in spite of their being undertaken over 100 years ago. Roy Campbell's mid-century translations are equally interesting but quite different from Richard Wilbur's (each of these can be found in the Matthews/New Directions edition). Richard Howard's translation (my personal favorite complete translation) offers yet another view of Baudelaire. Multiple translations of the greatest works of literature are perhaps the best path and in the case4 of the Bible, Dante, Homer, Baudelaire, etc... that is the path I have taken.

For the initiate to a given author's work the goal, I might suggest, would be to seek out a solid first choice to the work in question. In the case of Proust's In Search of Lost Time I would suggest that the Enright/Kilmartin/Moncrieff edition seems the obvious choice in that it represents a twice edited version (modernizing certain archaic elements) of a highly acclaimed (among critics, literature lovers, writers) translation of a beloved book. I personally found the book to be a marvelous, sensual experience. Perhaps, if like myself, you find that you suspect the book may just be one of the greatest (if not THE greatest) achievement of Modern literature, you may well wish to explore other translations. Until that time...

By decent I strictly meant a new/like-new hardcover set, preferably 6-volume modern library edition which I could keep for a long time. Unfortunately the 4th volume has disappeared from the planet. Hardcover Proust is not easy to find, its either out of print or out of stock. If I have to order from the UK, I will definitely not go for the penguin paperbacks.

I actually prefer the Moncrieff translation and I think the revised version will at least have the consistency the committee-translated Proust cannot have. I have read excerpts of Proust's work here and there, and very much look forward to reading the whole thing. Its just that acquiring a nice hardcover set (or, decent) has been such a pain.

To deal with it all, I have finally ordered from Amazon UK the Everyman's Library 4 volumes, although I must say 16 Pounds for shipping did not please me. Still a bargain at 60 pounds at the end of it all.

Finally, agree with Stlukesguild about comparing translations to suit your taste. I have the Everyman's library edition of Dante (transl. by Allen Mandelbaum, yet to read) but I have heard great things about Ciardi translation. I can't say more on this subject yet. I enjoyed your post all the same.

Thanks for the responses guys.

I have the Everyman's library edition of Dante (transl. by Allen Mandelbaum, yet to read) but I have heard great things about Ciardi translation. I can't say more on this subject yet. I enjoyed your post all the same.

Ciardi was my introduction to Dante so his translation will always hold a special place for me. Still I also enjoyed Mandelbaum's translation... among others.

By decent I strictly meant a new/like-new hardcover set, preferably 6-volume modern library edition which I could keep for a long time. Unfortunately the 4th volume has disappeared from the planet.

I picked up my Everyman's version of Proust (along with numerous other authors) in virtually mint condition. It would appear they were discontinuing a run of the given edition and so they dumped them upon the used books market for virtually a fraction of the worth.