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If it was a political assassination, Hamlet would've killed Claudius when he was praying. Sure, Claudius doesn't go to Hell, but he's dead, and if it's for the good of the country for Hamlet to be king, that is what he should have done. But he didn't.
And come on, Hamlet's not that nice to Ophelia.
And how is he going to prove it's a rightous assination and then would the people believe him and would he be respected as king. No, this is the point; Hamlet is left in a precarious and bad place by seeing his father's ghost which is emploring him to avenge his murder so he might rest in eternity in Heaven and not Hell. Hamlet is acting rationally, in not killing him at that moment. Read the text, he completely rationalizes it in his mind. He is one tiny move from killing him and then refrains. I don't think he did the wrong thing at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by kelby_lake
No, it turns really ugly right after he realises she is in the scheme to spy on Hamlet. She is, afterall, part of the set-up to see why he's acting this way. She also, before that refused to see Hamlet at her father's command. If she really loved her Lord Hamlet would she have done this? She is torn between father love and Hamlet's love. I think something really snaps when she gives the letters back. First off she shared intimate letters with her father and then with the king and queen. Wouldn't anyone be defensive and suspicious after these acts. Yes, Hamlet act poorly but it's understandable. I wish everyone would just give him a break for being human.Quote:
And come on, Hamlet's not that nice to Ophelia.
I see the play in two parts distinctively; the first half Hamlet is very manic and things move along quickly. After returning to Denmark after his sea trials he is calmer and he thinks things out more clearly. The separation has given his pause to think and to realise many things. Right after his return is the famous graveyard scene in with much is ruminated on the idea of mortality and death. That scene says so much. The only part of the story that truly bothers me about his rejection of Ophelia is when he comes from the gravesite and then seems elated and not heartbroken over the loss of Ophelia. It seems that minutes before he was exclaiming his love for her and then he sesms calm and resigned. Of course we might not know just how much time has elapsed between the two scenes. He does mention his regret to Horatio, but that doesn't seem like enough to me. From that scene onward the action again picks up and quickly the play, tragedy, is resolved.
Hamlet may rationalise it in his mind- after all, the majority of the play is him rationalising it- but it doesn't make it rational. He could have got someone else to kill Claudius. Hamlet lives in his own little Greek tragedy where he is the avenging son. You've got the incest and death- nice tragic themes for Hamlet.
Ophelia is little in the whole grand scheme of things, hence when Hamlet is in the graveyard and sees the skull, he realises his mortality- his anagnorisis, making him a tragic figure.
Hamlet might be a betrayed lover then but he has no idea what it's like for Ophelia. She has a duty to her father as Hamlet has to his- she relies on her brother and father for protection. In Measure for Measure, Isabella says that were she to give in to Angelo, she would 'die for ever'. Of course, it is a business deal and not a relationship but it's still not a good thing to be unmarried and not a virgin. Hamlet veers between treating her as a maiden and then as a whore.
kelby, I am just saying that Hamlet does rationalize and is rational as compared to mentaslly ill or insane. I don't personally subscribe to Hamlet being mentally ill as you know from the other thread on the subject. I think he is very distressed and especially rash in part one of the play. I think I divide the play into two parts. Second part Hamlet is much calmer and resigned to fate. I refer to the time of his arrival back on Denmark's soil. It seems getting further away from the whole affair, no matter how precarious his journey on the ship was, he has seen the whole affair in a clearer light. The first half of the play he is very manic and the whole play and actions move along quickly reflecting the rashness on Hamlet's part. This is also testing Hamlet in very unusual circumstances - ones of a totally personal aspect, being immersed and entangled within a family conspiracy. I can well imagine how I would feel if I felt bombarded by people acting behind my back and knowing full well they all are talking about me and finally conspiring against me. I think, when Hamlet disengages from the center of the stress and strife and confusion he begins to see things more clearly. At least he does calm down some but then is again temporarily stirred up by the graveyard scene and Ophelia's burial.Quote:
Originally Posted by kelby_lake
Yes, I think I do agree with this, if I am reading it correctly. This scene is the consumate death scene in the play in my own opinion. It certainly does make one consider mortality, even their own. I think that Hamlet here makes a direct connection to the audience and everyman.Quote:
Ophelia is little in the whole grand scheme of things, hence when Hamlet is in the graveyard and sees the skull, he realises his mortality- his anagnorisis, making him a tragic figure.
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Hamlet might be a betrayed lover then but he has no idea what it's like for Ophelia. She has a duty to her father as Hamlet has to his- she relies on her brother and father for protection. In Measure for Measure, Isabella says that were she to give in to Angelo, she would 'die for ever'. Of course, it is a business deal and not a relationship but it's still not a good thing to be unmarried and not a virgin. Hamlet veers between treating her as a maiden and then as a whore.
I think he treats Ophelia badly, yes, I don't one minute deny that fact; however, she is not entirely innocent either. She does several things which do not aid or support Hamlet in his strife; just how understanding is she really? She is also rash in going along with the scheme with her father and the king to spy on Hamlet. She might have to obey her father, but it's quite sad to think he can control her so entirely. He's quite a meddlesome old man. Ophelia is not a teenager; she's a grown woman. I have read that Hamlet is suppose to be about 35; He is a grown man. We are not talking about adolescents, being dictated to by their parents. She was pretty weak herself not standing up for her lover and being constant with her love for him. She did argue some with her father, but then gave in entirely to his demands.
I think the main point that Shakespeare is bringing out here in the nunnery scene is the fact that he feels betrayed by all women. He can no longer trust any of them. He believes now they paint their faces - great metaphor- to disguise who they really are inside. This last thread that existed between Hamlet and the female element is not broken with the knowledge that Ophelia knows about her father spying on Hamlet. There might have been a shred of hope for them at that point, had this not happened; but this was, as they say, 'the last straw.' At that point is when I see the greatest tragedy for Hamlet. I feel for him more right at this pinacle moment than even how I feel at the end of the play. This action of the two fathers spying on Hamlet and knowing that Ophelia is part of this really saddens me for both Hamlet and Ophelia.
What is Hamlet's tragic flaw?