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Completely agree. The point of the book was to send a warning about superpowers and totalitarian governments. If it had ended on a happy note with the prospect of a happily-ever-after for Winston, the affect wouldn't have been as great. The horror of it wouldn't have stuck with the reader as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Atheist
I just finished 1984 about 20 minutes ago and have been in shock. But the novel could never have ended any other way, really.
While in the Ministry of Love Winston had thought that the only way to truly be a martyr against the Party was to truly believe in its doctrine until the final seconds - when he figured you would finally know that it was indeed the end - before the bullet entered the back of your skull. Then one would recall all of their hatred against the Party and all real truths, and there would be no way that the Party could abolish these deviant thoughts before your life ended.
So though Winston finally completed the final step of his re-education, he failed to rebel in the only way left, as his last thoughts before death were that he finally loved Big Brother.
This is the most helpless thing in the novel of all, because it shows that the Party has complete and utter control over one's mind after all, even those waining moments when the bullet is entering one's brain.
But seriously, I've never come across such an evil villain as O'Brien. He disgusts me!
He is indeed one of the great villains of all literature - and done to perfection in the film with Richard Burton taking the part.Quote:
Originally Posted by Piske41
Just my kind of guy!
One thing that went through my head after I finished the book was this:
Is it possible that Winston had been through all of this before?
It's been awhile since I've read the book and I would need to go back and reread it for evidence, but Winston's life is very vague. We have the memory from his childhood and his current situation, with very little in between. Also, he is compelled to team up with O'brien, and in a dream O'brien tells him that they will meet again where there is no dark. O'brien acknowledges actually telling him this when they are in Room 101. When he goes into the Prole neighborhood, Winston is almost on auto-pilot, and everything seems to line up perfectly. He discovers the antique shop, learns the owner (who ends up turning him in) rents a room upstairs, etc. Also, Winston seems to be extremely unnerved by the destruction of the past. While he is not comfortable changing the headlines, etc., he seems particularly upset with the destruction of the old records in the incinerator.
Is it possible that Winston had been reprogrammed at some point in the past. He went about his life "loving" Big Brother, just as he did in the end of the novel. However, because of his selfishness (remember the childhood memory) and need to be viewed as an individual, he slowly regresses back into his rebellious state. Eventually, he is right back to hating the party and hating Big Brother. The cycle has begun anew.
This is where the book starts off.
Perhaps O'brien sensed the strength in Winston during their 1st meeting in Room 101 ("You already know what is in Room 101"), and made the comment that they would meet again. Perhaps, too, this is why O'brien kept a closer eye on Winston than the usual reprogrammed subjects.
I don't know, it's just a thought I figured I'd toss out there. Like I said, I'd need to go back and reread it for more solid evidence (if it even exists).
Chris
p.s. Sorry for the double plus bad spelling and grammar errors that I'm sure are throughout. I'm at work and probably shouldn't be on here, so I'm typing this on the sly. ;)
Nope.Quote:
Originally Posted by earwig74
The end of the book shows how totally the Thought Police destroy Winston's personality and brain - there is no chance whatsoever of a "re-conversion".
The things you bring up just show how complete the control and planning of the Thought Police is - they had earmarked Winston for attention long ago. The dream about O'Brien might have been subliminally implanted.
Guards! Room 101!Quote:
Originally Posted by earwig74
The ending exemplifies Big Brother's need for totality. Big Brother is not satisfied with the love and obedience of citizens; he needs it unconditionally, which is expressed quite well in Winston being killed only after he has come to realize his love. Winston is not converted or trained, the narrator tells us that the love of Big Brother is truth and Winston has been ignorant. O'brien is Winston's savior and not his conditioner.
Agreed. Orwell shows, though the ending, that these powers can not be established. This is the warning. There can be no victory but Big Brothers. We can not defeat Big Brother once he has power; our power comes in prevention.Quote:
Originally Posted by joanie
I liked the ending a lot, I thought it was extremely satisfying in terms of the meaning of the book.
However, I enjoyed Winston and Julia's anti-climactic mini-conversation more than Winston saying he loved Big Brother. ;)
I don't think that anyone is every really satisfied, so to speak, about the ending. The ending is more of a necessity.
I agree. Most readers gain satisfaction of the hero living and overcoming evil. Unfortunately, there is no hero in this story, well, not from our point of view. Big Brother becomes/is the central "hero" to the characters in 1984. They don't want you to just become one of them, they want, in my opinion, not only to scare you in to loving them, but to become a die-hard party member, supporting, as you said Nick, unconditionally.Quote:
The ending exemplifies Big Brother's need for totality. Big Brother is not satisfied with the love and obedience of citizens; he needs it unconditionally, which is expressed quite well in Winston being killed only after he has come to realize his love.
This is the novel where the villain wins, this is a warning about the totalitarians and power-hungry governments, how out of control something can get, how power-hungry people can get. It's definately a frightening and horrifying novel to read, but also an eye opener. Man, biopower sucks
:crash: This is me...destroying Big Brother :p lol