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What about the one whose native language is not English, but his field of study is English, which language is better to learn. I once knew a little french but forget all about it. And there is an obligation I know a language other than English (french, german, italian). Which one do you think is better for a student of literature?Quote:
Originally Posted by JBI
Italian first. It's closest to Latin, and offers Dante, amongst other things. French is good too, but from my experience, it is much more difficult to learn. Better to get Italian (Tuscan) first, and then move from there. As for non-native, I can't say, it would depend what you speak first. Italian is very useful, of course, since many, many references are made to Italian literature even in English. Also Italian poetry seems to me to be a stronger tradition than French Poetry (though in terms of prose the French win hands down). Also, you get a better exposure to Italian music, which wins hands down.
My mother tongue is Azer(Turkish), native language Persian, English as Second Language ...Quote:
Originally Posted by JBI
As an English speaker stranded on the language I'll say the second languages I'm thinking about. Warning, there will be brazen namedropping but it most concisely expresses my stance on literatures.
French is the first language I'd learn. It's desirable in itself and it's not far removed from English. Flaubert, Stendhal (who's The Red and the Black I'm appreciating now, in English :(), Dumas and Proust (if I'm ever crazy enough and have the time) are strong literary delights. Balzac and Zola are socially thoughtful storytellers. Good poetry Baudelaire, Rimbaud, Hugo, Valery. Final category, 20th century French thought. Incomparable philosophy, social thought and literature studies (such as Blanchot, Barthes, Lacan, Foucault, Derrida, Bourdieu). As a philosophy and sociology student French is, I'll venture to say, the most useful language today. The pronunciation and delicate wording also grabs me. As that guy says in Matrix Reloaded.
German is the next I'd acquire. German philosophy is very strong as well. Nietzsche I would savor reading in German. The heavyweight Heidegger would be another philosophical indulgence which could occupy one for ages. Rich poetry with Goethe, Rilke, Holderlin, Heine. And good novels by Mann, Hesse, Boll.
People I know who've learned German say it has a good logic and sense behind it. It's nonetheless sophisticated and multifaceted, as I often hear German translators complaining the inability to capture wordplay.
Spanish has lately caught my attention, it's even prioritised itself above Italian in my mind. 20th century Latin America Literature has revealed many curiosities to me, selling diverse writers from all sorts of backgrounds. The "Latin American Boom" has a lot of quality imaginative literature which falls under the genres magic realism and postmodern literature. Plus there's the more traditional Spanish literature of Cervantes and Lope de Vega. Spanish literature also sticks to the Latin alphabet and seems to have smoother, easier pronunciation then French without being technical like German.
I personally wouldn't venture into something so removed from English like Chinese, Japanese, Russian or Arabic. Mainly for practical reasons, if I pick up other languages these just lag behind French, German, Spanish also Italian.
Arabic, given all I know about it, doesn't really intrigue me. The Persian language although I'm curious about. Sufism is the key reason why, the mysticism and poetry in Persian literature of Rumi, Saadi, Hafez and I'm sure there are others unknown to me seem justifying.
The way I see it, just like with English, there is much a person could dwell on and appreciate for a long time in another language. For me, the philosophy alone of a language would merit learning a language like French or German. Equally the poetry alone would make learning French, German or Italian worthwhile. The fact is, you really can't go wrong. Unless you learn something truly marginal like feudal German. I think anyone who reads enough is an internationalist, so it's just a matter of which group of authors do you want closer exposure to.
I would go with French (Flaubert, Zola, Camus, etc.), Russian (Pushkin, Dostoevsky, Tolstoy, etc.), or Spanish (Garcia Marquez, Neruda, Cervantes, etc.).
I have never studied German and, frankly, at times I regret it, its rich body of literature being the main reason for that. Of course, one cannot learn every single thing one is interested in - languages are no exception - which is just one more reason why to pick carefully. I think that it would be the best if you reflected on the things you read and wish to read and other specific areas of interest in which you might certain language to be of use, because everyone of us is going to tell you simply what worked for us, in accordance with our interests, even if you might have some particularly different ones. It all depends on what you want to read and how much time and effort are you willing to invest into learning another language (i.e. whether you want to learn some rather common, Latin-based language, which is technically a useful choice; or some more exotic language because it suits your interests better).
I'd recommend Italian, not just because it is mine (:D), but also becuase I objectively - as objective as I can be - think it is a good language for literature studies, and an excellent base for other Romance languages (so it is going to be incredibly easy to learn French or Spanish after Italian - and vice versa of course). Unlike many, I wouldn't recommend Russian though. My entire life I have been preferring to read its literature in translations (mostly in translations to my other native languages - Croatian and Italian), it 'sounded better' and 'felt' better, emotionally in some way. Hard to explain, probably it was just a personal experience, and those tend to differ. ;)
It is said that Dostoevsky reads better in translation.
One always must consider what they will be reading. Though prose is big, if you are into poetry, you really need to read in the original. Sure you lose something translating Thomas Mann, but you lose far more translating Montale. The fact remains that if prose is all you want to read, you can go ahead with almost any prose major, and gain a little, but if you are into poetry, you really need to pick more carefully.
Difficulty is also another thing to consider. Russian is far more difficult than most romance languages for English speakers. German is also said to be more difficult than most romance languages. If one wants to master the most first, you should stick to what you know first.
As an Italian student, I can tell you that English is probably the worst first language to have for learning any new language. I refer to my examples relative to Hebrew more than English, simply because it is so difficult to understand inflection with using an English mindset. If you are going to try to learn Russian, without any knowledge of cases, you probably will find the process near impossible. That being said, most languages are inflected to some degree more than English, but the romance languages are said to be the easiest to learn.
The choice is yours. Don't go off on a whim and say, "I like Proust, therefore I want to learn French." Proust is available in translation, and though you lose something, you still don't lose as much as you do from translating Lorca, or from translating Pessoa.
Go for Urdu. :p Urdu is a beautiful language. Not being biased here or at least intentionally biased but really Urdu poetry as well as prose is amazing. Works by such poets as Ibn-e-Insha, Ghalib, Mir, Faiz, Ludhianwi, and many more authors are just great. I am especially fond of Urdu ghazals. We have some pretty good prose writers too. Translated material, especially when it comes to poetry, loses a lot.
Personally I would like to learn Persian for the sake of Persian Literature. I have heard such good things about the language by my grandfather (whose father used to write Persian poetry too) that I really want to experience Persian literature (in Farsi). The positive side is that the script is Arabic in Persian's case just like Urdu. Also many of Urdu words originate from Persian...
And it sounds beautiful too!
The factor that my paternal ancestors (while looking at the pedigree long time ago) have been from Iran might be another influence to make me want to examine the language more closely. :)
So do you happen to be from Turkey or Iran?Quote:
Originally Posted by sofia82
I agree, choosing a language over a whim, like a good author, seems to me to be risky and irresponsible. One doesn't learn a language like that; it takes a lot of time, effort and eventually money, so though it's important to like the literature of the language you'll choose to learn, other factors should weight in your decision, namely the applicability of your newly-acquired faculty. At a later stage, if you really want to learn a language, you should spend some time in a country where it is spoken, so it would help a lot if the country's culture, and the country itself, somehow intrigued or at least pleased you.
Hmmm, now I'm torn between Italian and French. Admittedly it is in part because most non-English writers I like are French, and apart from Dante and Machiavelli I know no Italian literature at all. Yet the cause for learning Italian first make sense, even though I generally prefer prose over poetry.
I'd learn French,then German,and finally Russian,in that order.
Iran, not TurkeyQuote:
Originally Posted by Pensive
French gains you access to some of the best movies ever made. The French take great pride in their cinema. I don't watch many movies but some of my favorite modern movies are in French language. Yvan Attal's Ma femme est une actrice and Ils se marièrent et eurent beaucoup d'enfants, Audrey Tautou's wonderful À la folie... pas du tout and Le Fabuleux Destin d'Amélie Poulain. I am not the sort who would watch movies but even I can't resist these wonderful films.Quote:
Originally Posted by johann cruyff
Salam aleykum! Nejasiniz? Man yaxshidir. Uzr isteyiram, manim Azeri dilim chox pisdir!Quote:
Originally Posted by sofia82
I taught English in Azerbaijan with the Peace Corps. I was working in a small village in the Bilasuvar region, near the Iranian border. Until now, I didn't realize how quickly one forgets a language if they don't speak it regularly. Chox shadam! :)
oh, Salam! chox mamnun. Man yakhjiyam. CHox sevindim.Quote:
Originally Posted by EricP
Great job! So you know these regions! Wish you best!
Unfortunately, yes. If one does not speak a language regualarly, one will forget it. How long did you worked there? And you taught English as the second language?